Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

[Shane]

Your an Architect right?

Well why on earth does it take 3 years to build a stadium? You see the size and structure of the Casinos that they build here in Las Vegas and max construction time is 1 to 1 1/2 years sometimes two at he very most. They put them up rather quickly.

I really dont see these structures being all that much smaller in size or stature? Plus many of them cost around the same to build as what they are estimating the stadium to cost. So am I wrong in assuming that the amount of materials should be pretty similar since cost is similar?

Not to mention that a stadium doesnt have the cosmetic appeal or detail that many of these casinos have.

Just curious as to why construction takes so long and what the difference is between the two that makes it this way?

 

[Russ Smith]

Just a guess, one is privately owned and financed, one isn't. The Cards stadium is probably subject to a lot of things such as best bid that a private building isn't. If I want to build a casino it's up to me what bids I take I'm not required to bid out a process and take the best bid or hire union labor, things like that.

I know that's the case with road work if it were done privately it would be much cheaper and done much quicker.

 

[40yearfan]

It's also the amount of money you are willing to spend. Overtime and shift work will complete a project sooner, but can add another 25% to 50% in building costs. Because Casinos have something like a 5 year payback, they can afford to spend the money up front to build them quicker. The sooner they are done, the sooner the owner/owners can start making money off of them.

 

[Red Hawk]

Also in Vegas they don't have to use nearly as much concrete because of the "extra filler" they use.

 

[red desert]

It seems to me that, structurally, they are two different animals. A lot of concrete in a stadium, you have to wait until one level sets before beginning the next.

Hell I don't know what I'm talking about. What else is new, huh Shane.

 

[SECTION 11]

Everybody so far is right, I would think. Russ is correct in that a private development company is spending at their own accord (?), whereas a publicly (or at least mostly) funded stadium has financial restrictions which is going to limit the overtime, etc. available like 40 mentioned. AZ-Red is right in his material suggestion. Structural steel is specific for both a casino and a stadium and both are subject to probably similar lead times in terms of ordering, but I would think that the steel design for a stadium is a much longer process. It's basically a series of ovals, instead of a repetitive hotel floor plan (the same floor, for 30 floors together with the casino area, vs. detailing several continually changing radii in a stadium) so red desert is right on also.

Beyond the budget, the labor, the materials and the steel detailing, I'd say that the electricity demand is much greater for a casino given the 24 hour usage vs. a peak on Sunday. But I would still think that the design process is much longer for a stadium. That's why it's being fast-tracked. There's different parties working on different areas to save time. The roof structure as of yet is still somewhat unknown. Not sure about the field design, but I would imagine that design's taking some time as well.

They do have the top stadium contractor in the country on board in Hunt construction [http://www.huberhuntnichols.com/]. Check out their list of projects.

It's pretty much all of these reasons together. It's just a series of more complex design problems compared to a casino.

The land cost involved in casino prices that you see is probably quite a bit higher. Not sure, but I know that the Jets new stadium downtown is going to be around $1B, and I'm pretty sure that includes a large land cost.

Maddog and jkf296 probably have some ideas as well.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Shane H
Your an Architect right?

I'm not an architect, but I do write for a living. It's "you're" and there is no reason to capitalize "architect."

I figure as long as people can get away with correcting the spelling of "Bidwill," I can get away with a quick english lesson.

 

[SECTION 11]

wow. that took an interesting turn.

 

[Shane]

Re: Re: Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

Originally posted by Pariah
I'm not an architect, but I do write for a living. It's "you're" and there is no reason to capitalize "architect."

I figure as long as people can get away with correcting the spelling of "Bidwill," I can get away with a quick english lesson.

Umm yea your cool!

 

[KingofCards]

Re: Re: Re: Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

Originally posted by Shane H
Umm yea your cool!

Neither "umm" or "yea" are words. Plus you incorrectly used the word "your", it should have been you're, a contraction for "you are". "Your" implies possession, which in case you didn't know is 9/10th's of the law.

 

[Shane]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

Originally posted by KingofCards
Neither "umm" or "yea" are words. Plus you incorrectly used the word "your", it should have been you're, as in you are. "Your" implies possession, which in case you didn't know is 9/10's of the law.

I know!

YOUR all fricken cool!

 

[Cards Czar]

I am in the logistics and here is what goes on. Each secton will have to be bidded on like electric, plumbing, who will have the consessions, grounds, carpinter work ect, Each will be bidded on and will have a time frame. Since it is mostly owned buy a public corp there will be a lap of time so the powers to be will have a pick of the top 3 bidders then they will choose out of the 3 which one will have the best price with the best quality of work. Now sometimes the lowest bidder will not win due to quality of work and that takes time. I can go into more detail but don't want to fall asleep here.



Navy Mike

 

[8ndkorner]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

Originally posted by KingofCards
Neither "umm" or "yea" are words. Plus you incorrectly used the word "your", it should have been you're, a contraction for "you are". "Your" implies possession, which in case you didn't know is 9/10th's of the law.

Wow. This thread went from construction to demolition in a short time.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Re: Re: Section 11??? Anyone else who knows?

Originally posted by Pariah
I'm not an architect, but I do write for a living. It's "you're" and there is no reason to capitalize "architect."

I figure as long as people can get away with correcting the spelling of "Bidwill," I can get away with a quick english lesson.

Since you brought capitalization into this discussion, wouldn't it actually be an English lesson?

 

[maddogkf]

They are two different types of projects.

The stadia are more of a civil project with the amount of concrete supports, columns, & general body of the building.

THe time it takes to set forms, pour, let it cure, & strip is enormous.

In commercial buildings, the shell is steel as Sect said. It can go up much quicker. The sheer volume of the stadium is almost mind boggling with the amount of concrete they have to pour.

You have to wait at least 30 days to strip your forms on the lod bearing structures if there is something placed immediately on top of it.

The Empire State Building was built 1 week per floor when it was built early last centruy.

 

[justAndy]

the great wall of china

took decades to build and is the only manmade structure visible from space in daylight...
the condo i'm buying was built in 1958 and their are no cracks in the foundation or walls from settling. I cringe to think what's going to happen in a few years to all the insta-burbs that have popped up in the last 15 yrs...

 

[daytripper]

As a construction manager for publicly funded highway projects I can tell you the the logistics of administering any publicly funded work adds considerable time.
Also it doesnt take much in the way of design change or conflict to blow up a schedule.
As others have pointed out concrete and steel placement are tedious and time consuming.
All things considered I would say that the time frame proposed seems reasonable if not optimistic.
GBR