Senior Bowl Thoughts: Fleming, Kelemete & Lindley

Mitch

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Just watched the Senior Bowl again and was able to look closely at our three picks---and here's a summary of what I saw:

Jamell Fleming, CB, Oklahoma:

* Started the game at RCB.

* CBs are at a disadvantage because they have to play off and they cannot press---so this needs to be taken into account.

* That said, he gave up a couple of catches to Joe Adams on short passes in front of him, but he was quick and sudden making the tackles, the second of which was so good that he stripped Adams and caused a fumble that the defense recovered.

* One one play 15 yards down field, Adams and Fleming made contact---and it looked to me like Adams pushed off, but Fleming was called for an illegal contact penalty, which was waved off because Adams had made the catch.

* No WR ever got past him deep.

* He made an outstanding play late in the game where Brandon Weeden tried to sell an underneath hitch to then throw over the top of Fleming, only Fleming did not bite and made an easy interception.

* Was very good on STs, especially as a blocker, as his blocks on two occasions helped to spring Isaiah Pead for long returns.

Comment: one could make the case that he was the best CB in the game--forcing a fumble and making a game sealing interception. The kid plays with a flair and he's quick and physical.

Senio Kelemete, LT, Washington.

* Played LT---alternating time with Mike Adams, who started the game.

* Only missed one block in the entire game---it was a designed scheme for Kelemete to cut block Quinton Coples with LG Tony Bergstrom there to pick Coples up after the cut, only Coples made his best play of the game, leaping over Kelemete, storming past Bergstrom and sacking Russell Wilson, who ran backwards instead of stepping up into the pocket, a la Kevin Kolb.

* The thing is---the coaches didn't have to resort to cut blocking Coples because Kelemete was having no problem at all locking him and Courtney Upshaw up as neither one of them ever got close to the QB.

* In the running game, Kelemete was stellar---he sealed off Malik Jackson perfectly on a good run inside that block by Isaiah Pead, and Kelemete sealed off every other run block versus Coples, Upshaw, Jackson, Ingram and a couple of very good inside seals on Texas A&M's Tony Jerod-Eddie.

* Extremely well coached---because he has a very good, quick set of counter moves---for example on one running play, he tried to influence Coples to the inside in order to seal him off inside. Coples sensed the influence and tried to swim back through to avoid the seal, so Kelemete did what all smart, well-coached offensive linemen are taught to do, he adjusted quickly to the swim, got under Coples' pads and rode him out of the play the way Coples wanted to go.

Another example---was in pass protection, Melvin Ingram, who did not start the game (position question?) and played mostly at DT when he did play, was once lined up outside and tried to run his patented fake outside storm the inside gap rush. Kelemete set up quickly to the outside, and was able to redirect quickly enough to get a enough of a hand on Ingram to push him too far inside.

Comment: Watching Mike Adams' performance in the game as comparison---Kelemete was more consistent, played with better balance, strength and body control. Having watched Kelemete stop Quinton Coples and Courtney Upshaw in their tracks on numerous occasions in pass protection, and having watched him seal off every one of his run blocks while getting off the ball with a real snap to his game, in addition to being able to counter versus unpredictable moves, I strongly believe he could be a good left tackle in the NFL. What I love about him too is he's so much in control---he never once jumped the snap---his setup is quick and balanced---he packs a punch on initial contact but instantly maintains his balance and his firm base---and he's not a grabber at all, which so many of the tackles in today's football are. I think he would make an excellent LG as well...and I was expecting to see skills that translated more that that position and was very pleasantly and unexpectedly surprised to see him put in a near flawless performance versus three of the top pass rushers in the draft (two first rounders and an early second rounder).

Ryan Lindley, QB, San Diego St.

* Was the second QB in after Brandon Weeden---Weeden struggled in the game and threw 2 interceptions and his team turned the ball over another time when Jamell Fleming stripped Joe Adams.

* Lindley's frist drive was about 65 yards---he threw two perfect passes to Juron Criner, one on an out pass on third and medium and another into the left seam for 18 yards on a 2nd and 10. The drive ended in a field goal inside the ten when Lindley narrowly missed Criner on a back shoulder fade and then when Bobby Wagner got a little piece of a skinny post pass to Criner on 3rd and goal.

* For the remainder of the game, Lindley and Criner were having miscommunication problems, as Criner seemed to be running shallower routes than what Lindley was expecting. This is often the case in All-Star games---

* The NFLN crew said that the coaches during the week felt that Lindley was the most comfortable QB of all the QBs there---that he was perhaps the best prepared for the NFL having worked under center his senior year, and that his arm strength was very good.

* Charles Davis said a couple of the coaches likened Lindley to Andy Dalton---Mike Mayock, who did not seem very high on Lindley because of his career 57% completion rate and Mayock kept harping on that. So Mayock and the crew threw out another name: Jake Locker---because of the completion percentage issues.

* Mayock was quick to praise Lindley for the absolute 110 mph rope he threw 35 yards up the left sideline that WR Jeff Fuller dropped.

Comment: I liked what I saw in this game. I've seen a lot of tape on him---and I thought his footwork (3-5 step drops) and ballhanding (exchanges and handoffs) were excellent---he hangs in the pocket nicely and he has a big arm and in this game it looked plenty accurate to me. His quick hitch passes were out very quickly and right on the money---with tight spirals as well, which isn't easy when you have to throw it that quickly. I think that with good coaching and some continuity in the system and with the WRs, this kid could be very good---
 

Duckjake

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Comment: I liked what I saw in this game. I've seen a lot of tape on him---and I thought his footwork (3-5 step drops) and ballhanding (exchanges and handoffs) were excellent---he hangs in the pocket nicely and he has a big arm and in this game it looked plenty accurate to me. His quick hitch passes were out very quickly and right on the money---with tight spirals as well, which isn't easy when you have to throw it that quickly. I think that with good coaching and some continuity in the system and with the WRs, this kid could be very good---

Two things on Lindley:

The gurus talk about how winning in college isn't important but physical skills are. That's a plus for Lindley. The other thing they talk about is number of games started and accuracy. Lindley fails the accuracy test.

As far as his fit with the Cards he probably couldn't have been selected by a worse team for him. He appears to be the same type player as Double Duece and DD has a two year head start on him and all those wins last season. And then there's Kolb who is going to have a huge head start on all 3 of the other QBs because of the money he's been paid. Of course being the #2-3 QB on an NFL team is a pretty good gig. Several guys have made a multi year career out of it.

Oh and one more very important thing that just occurred to me about Lindley. If he's big and has a big arm and has a big accuracy problem why didn't Oakland trade up to draft him in the first round?
 
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WildBB

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Awesome, thanks. Another reason to have real hope that this is an above average to very good class.

I don't know how teams take so many players rated in the 50's and 60's so early in the drafts and leave these players for late in drafts.
 

Duckjake

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Awesome, thanks. Another reason to have real hope that this is an above average to very good class.

I don't know how teams take so many players rated in the 50's and 60's so early in the drafts and leave these players for late in drafts.

Different teams with different evaluations. Especially if you aren't like fans who judge a draft pick not on talent or fit for your team but where he was rated vs where you drafted him. Getting the 67th rated player in Elton Brown with the 111th pick wasn't exactly a steal was it?

The fans would hate me as GM as I'd take guys I really wanted as soon as I could. I could never roll the dice on a guy I had high on my board still being there 32 or 64 picks later just so I could get "value".
 

Duckjake

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Dang, in addition to Sendlein and Sam Acho we'd have Michael Griffin and Brian Orakpo and Michael Huff and Earl Thomas and Lamarr Houston and Jermichael Finley and Henry Melton and Aaron Ross and Jamaal Charles and Derrick Johnson and Brian Robison and David Thomas and Tarell Brown and Phil Dawson and.... well, no, even as much of a homer as I am I wouldn't have signed Blake Gideon or drafted Chris Simms.

:D
 

Duckjake

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Wow look at the Defense you could have with just former Longhorns!

DE Brian Robison
NT Casey Hampton
DE Henry Melton
OLB Sam Acho
ILB Derrick Johnson
ILB Emmanuel Acho
OLB Brian Orakpo
CB Tarell Brown/Cedric Griffin
CB Aaron Ross/Quentin Jammer
S Michael Griffin
S Earl Thomas

Hook 'em

After all these years still can't figure out what the problem is with Texas and QBs. The last really good NFL Qb we've produced was Bobby Layne, still the career passing yards leader for the Detroit Lions, and he last played in 1962!
 
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TJ

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Wow look at the Defense you could have with just former Longhorns!

DE Brian Robison
NT Casey Hampton
DE Henry Melton
OLB Sam Acho
ILB Derrick Johnson
ILB Emmanuel Acho
OLB Brian Orakpo
CB Tarell Brown
CB Aaron Ross
S Michael Griffin
S Earl Thomas

Hook 'em

Fair enough, just keep Vince Young away from my team, please. :D
 

Goodyear Card

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Two things on Lindley:



Oh and one more very important thing that just occurred to me about Lindley. If he's big and has a big arm and has a big accuracy problem why didn't Oakland trade up to draft him in the first round?

Maybe we could trade him to Oakland for next years 1st round pick
 

az jam

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T

Oh and one more very important thing that just occurred to me about Lindley. If he's big and has a big arm and has a big accuracy problem why didn't Oakland trade up to draft him in the first round?

Because Al Davis passed away this past season.
 

Vermont Maverick

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The fans would hate me as GM as I'd take guys I really wanted as soon as I could. I could never roll the dice on a guy I had high on my board still being there 32 or 64 picks later just so I could get "value".

You should be Pete Carroll's GM. He would love you. We are going to get a chance to see how that works with the super-reaches of Bruce Irvin and Russell Wilson - players whom Seattle fell in love with.
 

az jam

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Excellent analysis Mitch. Here are some updates from the Senior Bowl practices from draftcountdown.com:

Oklahoma CB Jamell Fleming enjoyed an outstanding day. An outstanding athlete with a smooth backpedal and make-up speed, Fleming was able to adjust to balls that were underthrown by Kellen Moore and always seemed to be in position to make a play. Fleming also got physical at the line of scrimmage on almost every rep during the 1-on-1

Most of San Diego St. QB Ryan Lindley’s passes were in the dirt. Even Lindley’s short passes were often thrown at receivers feet. Lindley was just highly inaccurate and never got his timing down, sailing most passes deep and overthrowing his targets. With all that said, Lindley did have one great pass deep to Chris Rainey over Janoris Jenkins, but it was one of the lone good throws on the day

Washington’s Senio Kelemete continued to work at left tackle but it’s hard to imagine the former Husky manning that position at the next level. Cam Johnson beat Kelemete in 1-on-1’s with a good first step and Kelemete just couldn’t recover. However, Kelemete did well against Billy Winn when the blocker got his hands inside and stood the potential early round pick up. Coming into the week most projected Kelemete as an offensive guard and the evidence appears to be mounting in that direction
 

52brandon

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I was shocked when we took a CB in the 3rd, but the more I see, the more impressed I am with Fleming. We can have a really shut-down D for years with all of this young talent (as long as we re-sign CC)

Kelemente will probably still have a shot at LT here. Levi has been far from impressive until very recently. Hopefully he keeps it up, but it's good to have competition

Lindley is the most confusing pick. A project QB would be all well and good if we didn't already have one. Especially with similar strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he was BPA at the time, but I don't particularly see a use unless they're losing faith in Skelton, which I don't see just yet
 

Krangodnzr

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IMO you take a QB every few drafts, regardless of what you have as starters. Lindley fits the prototype of a Whisenhunt QB; big and strong armed. The problem is it that in the sixth round no QB available is going to be a perfect prospect. Lindley has everything going for him except accuracy, and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever develop. But it's Worth the risk with a late pick.
 

kerouac9

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Dang, in addition to Sendlein and Sam Acho we'd have Michael Griffin and Brian Orakpo and Michael Huff and Earl Thomas and Lamarr Houston and Jermichael Finley and Henry Melton and Aaron Ross and Jamaal Charles and Derrick Johnson and Brian Robison and David Thomas and Tarell Brown and Phil Dawson and.... well, no, even as much of a homer as I am I wouldn't have signed Blake Gideon or drafted Chris Simms.

:D

You know what? I really liked Chris Simms. It must've been the time when I'd come of age watching the NFL, but I love these experienced college players with modest talent levels. Chris Simms, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, etc.

I wanted Simms to come in and compete with Leinart and Warner following the 2008 season.

The 1999 Tampa Bay Bucs went 11-5 and advanced to the NFC Championship game with Trent Dilfer and Shaun King playing under center. Eric Zeier(!) started a game for the Bucs that year (!!!). They lost on the road to the St. Louis Rams 11-6.

Greatest Show on Turf, indeed.
 

Jetstream Green

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Watched Simms played at Texas, the guy has ZERO football instincts and has absolutely no sense of oncoming pressure in the pocket. Never did and that cannot be learned but I still think Jason Campbell, though modest, is a starting caliber NFL QB
 

Bodha

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To be fair, the Senior Bowl is like the Pro Bowl. Its hardly representative of guys talents.

Half the dudes on the field were going 1/2 speed because they didnt want to get injured, and the other half were going 110% trying to make a good impression.


If you want to see how these guys look in game, go watch individual game tape from Washington, SD State, Oklahoma, etc.

Ive watched Massie already. Hes good, not great. Hes an upgrade at RT, but people shouldnt expect a pro bowler. Hes a little slow and it looks like speed rushers can get the corner on him. He does well vs power rushers.
 

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Nice writeup Mitch. I am looking forward to getting home in ten days so I can look at the Senior Bowl myself. The only thing that I can remember was that I was not that impressed with Kelemete in the one on ones but I have not watched him closely in the game itself. Fleming sounds like we have found ourselves a very good number two CB to Peterson.

I believe the Cards drafted Lindley in case Kolb can't beat out Skelton this year. If he can't and refuses to take a pay cut, I can see them releasing him after this season.
 

Early

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Instead of Lindley, they should have taken Chandler Harnish - there is not much i don't like about that kid. Indy just got two very good QB's. He is extremely accurate, if you see the ball placement it's always in stride and that's why his WR's are getting so many YAC's. His ball placement deep is better than of any other QB in this class, it's insane how he puts the ball on those + 35 yard throws. I had to rematch many of these throws, it was that spectacular, it was NFL throws.

He hasn't shown the ability on tapes to scan up to/and more than 5 options. But who has done this on this level? Most of his game is up to 3 reads, but it's so hard to evaluate because that is the game plan. However, compared to other QB's in college, I think he is outstanding in scanning from one to other side of the field when going from the first to second read or from the second to third. His ability to quickly redirect his feet and body and make the read on the opposite side of the field and make a quick decision and throw, is simply put fantastic. Kid has NFL potential for sure.

In situations under pressure, he stands in there and makes the throw. He can run with the football, he is dangerous on the ground. He doesn't have the zip sometimes on his throws and the level of competition is not always the best.But there is not much I don't like about him beside of the few throws without zip where the ball hangs in the air. But he can zip it, it's just a matter of making him more consistent.

He was selected last overall, Mr. Irrelevant, however with his skills, he might be very relevant at some point of his career, maybe not in Indy.

I think we missed on this guy, i think we missed on Sanu, Childs and/or Criner.

Last one to mention is Dwayne Allen. Has anybody noticed his ability to run routes? How many TE's in NFL not named Dallas Clark can run routes like that? They are extremely sharp and he has a natural talent in knowing how to attack zones. He has very good but not amazing hands. However, he is not a body catcher and can leap and go up and get it and doesn't wait for the football. He is very dangerous with the football and can make people miss. He blocks very well and he is the classical TE that you can line up next to the tackle and trust in both the run and the passing game. We missed here on a real classical west coast TE.

I think we should have drafted Allen (third round) and signed Clark (he is free agent) and made a two TE sets as the base offense, one on each side of the line. That would give us two of the best route running TE's in the game that would have made huge problems for any defense. Ryan Williams as the only one in the backfield, running 12 set. Two WR's out Fitz and Sanu. And Chandler Harnish throwing the football. This would have left the 1st pick to be used in upgrading the Offensive Line.

Besides Harnish, I really see a lot of potential in Luck and Tannenhill. Especially Tannehill has all the mental and physical tools to be a very good west coast QB. There is not much I don't like about Ryan Tannenhill. However, both of these were out of reach, we would have needed to trade up to get one of these two. I love Luck's tape but there is a lot of bad decisions in there as well. His mechanics are perfect. His mental aspects of the game, I'm not convinced about as everyone else. I think Tannenhill looks much stronger mentally and his throws and mechanics would have made Walsh very impressed.
 
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JeffGollin

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I guess a lot of us are doing the same things post-draft; including watching the Senior Bowl, Combine etc. My top line impressions.

Kelemete's drive blocking caught my eye - physical, tenacious with low pad-level. Although he played LT in the Senior Bowl, everything points to his playing OG in the pros. He looked a bit funky trying to stay squared to his man on that edge-pass pro drill.

While Fleming is no shut-down corner (he lacks the pure speed), he was solid and mistake-free playing zone or off-man and, despite apparently not being asked to be aggressive in coverage, came up with two big plays (the strip and the pick).

I expected Lindley to be all over the place in the passing game, but he seemed to deliver the ball with zip, on-time and fairly accurately but was the victim of a few dropped passes. His big challenge figures to be executing reliably in the mental side of the chart - playbook, reads, decision-making, trigger-pulling. Can this be taught? Dunno. Hope so. (If Lindley can develop into a cagey, consistent, "gets the job done" QB, we could wind up with something special). If.

One gripe about Combine coverage - Everytime they'd get to Massie (in the 2nd group of O-linemen, they'd go to commercial and, by the time they returned to the field, they were already past Massie and covering Potter. Incidently, if you consider rookies as malleable clay, both Kelemete and Potter looked like they could be molded into very good pro linemen - Kelemete at LG and Potter at LT. But I never got to see much of Massie.
 
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Duckjake

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Watched Simms played at Texas, the guy has ZERO football instincts and has absolutely no sense of oncoming pressure in the pocket. Never did and that cannot be learned but I still think Jason Campbell, though modest, is a starting caliber NFL QB

Jetstream is correct. Getting Simms would be like renting a piece of equipment with no operator. He just didn't have the head for the game. Plus the environment at Texas as a result of the Simms v Applewhite QB controversy surely had an adverse impact on the kids head. It's one thing to expect a 28-30 year old getting paid millions to be able to handle the kind of abuse Simms took from the fans. Quite another to expect it from a 20 year old. I swear it almost got to the point where fans were going to kill each other over it. Was a sad time for Texas football.

A testament to Texas recruiting that they were able to win as many games as they did with all that nonsense going on.
 

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Mitch and Jeff, thanks. I came away with the impression that our OL has pretty good depth with Kelemete and possibly Potter along with Bridges. But Massie has to beat out Bridges (at least by mid-season) for the OL to be much improved. And I'm guessing he will. Mitch, your take on Fleming, has convinced me that he'll start the season as our fourth CB, backing up both starters, PP and Gay. I think that Toler will be the third CB, covering the slot receiver. And Toler will be backed up by Mighty Mike, who makes the team primarily because of his ST play, beating out AJ Jefferson. And sticking with the DB's I think we keep nine (5/4) with Sanders and Johnson the safety reserves. If Bethel shows anything in the preseason, he'll make the PS. And that take is based on never seeing Bethel play, but realize he didn't play BCS. And that will probably set him back initially.

As for Lindley, again the PS will determine if he beats out Bartel. And I have NO idea if he will. I do have to disagree with Bodha, that players don't go all out at the Senior Bowl. If they fall down one slot, much less one round, they lose money. And there's also the pride factor.

Can't wait for the mini-camps and Flagstaff.
 

Duckjake

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IMO you take a QB every few drafts, regardless of what you have as starters. Lindley fits the prototype of a Whisenhunt QB; big and strong armed. The problem is it that in the sixth round no QB available is going to be a perfect prospect. Lindley has everything going for him except accuracy, and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever develop. But it's Worth the risk with a late pick.

You forgot...and inaccurate. :)

But seriously, what is the Whisenhunt prototype QB? On one hand you have Brian St.Pierre, Max Hall, and Kevin Kolb and on the other you have DeWreck Anderson, John Skelton, and now Lindley.

The only thing we know for sure is there is one guy who was not a Whisenhunt QB.

I have a theory that most don't agree with when it comes to QBs. I'd take a player 4th or 5th round and make him my backup QB. And keep him as my back up for as long as I coached the team. So if my #1 got hurt I'd always have a guy well versed in my offense to come in and try to hold things together instead of a kid with little or no experience or a veteran who has less than one season in my offense. If I needed to groom a replacement he'd be my #3. I know its off the wall but that's what I'd do.
 
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