Shelton The Key

[Walter Mitchell]

Plenty of thoughts this morning:

(1) If the Cardinals want to trade up to number three with the Texans, offering L.J. Shelton could make it possible. The Texans don't need more draft picks, they have plenty. But, they do need to upgrade their porous offensive line. It's entirely possible that the Cardinals could send the Texans Shelton and swap the #3 and #6 picks...and perhaps give the Cardinals a 4th or 5th round pick. The Texans don't want to use the #3 pick on an offensive lineman and they guy they want, Andre Johnson, would most likely still be available at #6. The Cardinals are planning to switch Leonard BIG Davis to his natural position of LT anyway and could throw a nice contract offer to free agent G Doug Brezinski (Eagles), who probably would sign for something close to $1M per.

The question is why would the Cardinals want to move up to #3? Here's where it gets a little tricky. Will Terrell Suggs be taken by the Bengals or Lions? It's entirely possible. I just don't get the sense that the Bengals and Lions will follow in line with the early mocks. My hunch is that Marvin Lewis will either trade down or select a defensive player...and look more seriously for a rookie QB with the #33 pick or later in the draft. Would Suggs be Lewis' selection? Even though he has Justin Smith already in the fold at RDE, Suggs and Smith would be tremendous bookends. Now that Lewis just signed DT John Thornton, it would seem less likely that he would tab Jimmy Kennedy. If Lewis stays put at #1, I think he'll take Suggs.

As for Mooch and the Lions, everyone has him snagging Charles Rogers...but Rogers isn't 6'4" as everyone thought he was...he's 6'2". I don't buy the Rogers selection at #2. Just don't see it happening. In a bit of a shocker, I see Mooch tabbing CB Terence Newman. Mooch may try to move down a couple of spots, figuring that Newman will be there, but he may not get a taker with Suggs off the board. Mooch already has his RCB in Dre' Bly, now he lands his all-important LCB in Newman...and in Newman he has a first rate punt returner.

Therefore, it's entirely possible that both Carson Palmer and Byron Leftwich will still be on the board at #3. The Cardinals could have their pick and ensure themselves of one of the two top QB prospects in the draft.

It's possible that BOTH Palmer and Leftwich will be on the board at #6. Here's my latest mock:

1. Bengals: SUGGS

2. Lions: NEWMAN

3. Texans: ROGERS

4. Bears: KENNEDY

5. Cowboys: TRUFANT

Therefore, moving up to three to grab one of the QBs might be a moot point. The Cardinals move up to three to take Suggs...otherwise they stay put.

The Cardinals may also have a shot at either Rogers or Andre Johnson at #6. But, at this point, the priority should be QB.

(2) Someone reported that Kordell Stewart wants $4M a year for two years and doesn't want his team to select a QB in the first round. If that is true, the Cardinals would be crazy to agree to those terms. The $4M a year is a stretch to begin with...and a result of the effect Jake's signing had on the market. Even worse, to ensure a two year QB that the club wouldn't select a QB in round one would be ridiculous.

(3) The wooing of RB Emmitt Smith is a desperation move. First of all, I think we would all be shocked if Smith signed with the Cardinals. Smith should and probably will sign a near minimum contract with the Bucs, so he can take a run at another ring. As we all know, Michael Pittman is no sure thing...so, Emmitt would more than likely get plenty of snaps.

(4) The Cardinals need to break the ice by signing some lower-to-mid level free agents in order to improve their depth and special teams. MLB/OLB James Darling (Jets), G Doug Brezinski (Eagles), FB James Hodgins (Rams), WRs Orande Gadson (Dolphins) and Germain Crowell (Lions), QB Charlie Batch (Steelers), S Ronnie Heard (49ers) and DE Willie Whitehead (Saints) would bring excellent value for reasonable salaries...and would follow the Patriot's recent paradigm for success. Add two major free agents to this mix such as DE Roosevelt Colvin and S Dexter Jackson and the team would be dramatically upgraded.

(5) Charlie Batch makes better sense to me than Stewart or Blake. Here's my thinking. I am conceding that Terrell Suggs will be taken in the top five. So, my focus is in landing Leftwich. See what Batch and Leftwich show in mini-camps and if Batch looks good, go with him as the starter until Leftwich is ready. The Cardinals would have a very good idea of what they have in Batch and Leftwich by June 1. At that time they can decide to take a run at Brian Griese or any other QB released after June 1. Throwing $4M a year at Stewart or Blake doesn't make a lot of sense...not if the team has Leftwich in its sights.

(6) What if the Cardinals stay at #6 and both Palmer and Leftwich are taken in the top five? TRADE DOWN...get a mid to early late round pick and add an extra 2nd or 3rd...and take Kyle Boller. I think Boller has just enough a chance of succeeding as an NFL starter as Palmer. In fact, Boller is a better athlete and is just as hard a thrower as Palmer.

(7) My latest Cardinal 7 round mock:

1. QB Byron Leftwich, Marshall

2. DT Ty Warren, Texas A&M or DT Ian Scott, Florida or DT William Joseph, Miami (stock is falling...Mel says early 2nd round pick now).

3. DT/DE Antonio Garay, Boston College

4. WR Michael Bush, Washington St.

5. LB Joe Odom, Purdue

6. CB Torrie Cox, Pittsburgh

7. WR/PR Keenan Howry, Oregon

 

[Krangodnzr]

I like your reasoning to a certain extent

I'd rather take Wr Tyrone Talico in the second. He ran between a 4.3-4.4 at around 6'2 230. That might be a bit of a reach, but with huge needs at Wide receiver, sometimes an early risk is necessary.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Shelton if we added Brezinski, in fact it might be a very good deal. Shelton's contract is up at the end of next season, and we can't afford to keep throwing huge sums of money at the OL. We should bring in a smaller salary (Brezinski) move Leonard to LT, and move the guy that will command the big salary (Shelton).

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I like your reasoning to a certain extent

I'd rather take Wr Tyrone Talico in the second. He ran between a 4.3-4.4 at around 6'2 230. That might be a bit of a reach, but with huge needs at Wide receiver, sometimes an early risk is necessary.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Shelton if we added Brezinski, in fact it might be a very good deal. Shelton's contract is up at the end of next season, and we can't afford to keep throwing huge sums of money at the OL. We should bring in a smaller salary (Brezinski) move Leonard to LT, and move the guy that will command the big salary (Shelton).

We have so many holes to fill I do not think we trade up for anyone. Suggs is not going to turn this team into a winner and no one man can. Keep all our draft picks and hope for more.

 

[stlouiecard]

You know Krang

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I like your reasoning to a certain extent

I'd rather take Wr Tyrone Talico in the second. He ran between a 4.3-4.4 at around 6'2 230. That might be a bit of a reach, but with huge needs at Wide receiver, sometimes an early risk is necessary.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Shelton if we added Brezinski, in fact it might be a very good deal. Shelton's contract is up at the end of next season, and we can't afford to keep throwing huge sums of money at the OL. We should bring in a smaller salary (Brezinski) move Leonard to LT, and move the guy that will command the big salary (Shelton).

It was just last Sunday that you and I went back and forth on this issue and weren't you opposed to moving Shelton??? What has changed your mind? Quite frankly, with the loss of Grutt I think the Cards will need to find a way to re-sign Shelton or if we do move him bringing in a good G like Brezinski would make sense.

 

[sly fly]

Walter,

If only the Cards were thinking like you.

Great post!

 

[Red Air Force]

I brought this up awhile ago that we should trade one of our tackles, and bring in a slightly less expensive guard.

If not we are gonna end up with 3 tackles, 1 Guard, and 0 centers. I agree, like you say, that we are gonna need to re-distribute some of the salary that is devoted to our o-line.

 

[JeffGollin]

(1) If the Cardinals want to trade up to number three with the Texans, offering L.J. Shelton could make it possible\

Pardon me, but what about the offensive line? Don't screw it up by trading Shelton, please after we've spent 6 or more years bring it up to acceptable standards.

One thing we might consider doing - extending Shelton now rather than waiting til he has us by the cojones after the season.

Note - Shelton was our most durable offensive lineman last year (Heck! I think he was our ONLY durable lineman

 

[Second Deck]

I totally agree with Jeff there is no need to mess with the line. I like getting Clement back put big back to guard unless he objects and extend Shelton.

I do not see a real reason to move in the draft. We take whatever falls to us Leftwich, Suggs, Newman, Johnson would be my wish order.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

Stlouiscard: You and I didn't discuss Shelton last week. Ever since there were rumblings from team management that they were going to move BIG to LT and slide Shelton to guard, I have been discussing the idea of trading Shelton...I even proposed a while back that the Cardinals try to trade Shelton for Kelly Holcomb. Shelton is going into the last year of his contract, so why not see now if the club can get something in return for him, rather than just letting him walk next year?

It would be nice to keep the offensive line intact, Jeff, as you suggest. But, there is no telling how Shelton will adapt to playing guard...or whether he would even want to convert to guard, especially in his contract year. Since it would appear certain that BIG and CLEM are the tackles of the future for the Cardinals, why not see what the team can get for Shelton? Even if the Cardinals don't add a guard like Brezinski, they would still have starters in Kendall and Dishman. Perhaps it would be better to try to sign C Jeff Christy and re-sign Raleigh Roundtree for depth.

It's just that the Cardinals now have so many need areas that trading Shelton may enable the team to upgrade other positions while still being able to boast one of the better offensive lines in the NFC.

As for Tyrone Calico, Krang, he's a reach at #37. He's from Middle Tennessee St. and while he looked good at the combine, he's still has to make a quantum leap to the pros. That's why it would make better sense to think of taking him in the third round, if he's still on the board. At #37, Krang, the Cardinals are going to be able to grab one of the top defensive linemen in the draft...the one area of the draft pool that's real deep. There will be a run on them in the first round, but several will still be on the board at #37...and even DEs Corey Redding and Michael Haynes may still be available, in addition to the three good DTs (Warren, Scott, and Joseph). This, IMO, is why the Cardinals can well afford to invest the #6 pick in a franchise QB, because they still can snag a defensive linemen with first round ability in the second round. DT/DE Kenny Peterson of Ohio State may slip to #37 too...it's quite possible.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
(1) If the Cardinals want to trade up to number three with the Texans, offering L.J. Shelton could make it possible\

Pardon me, but what about the offensive line? Don't screw it up by trading Shelton, please after we've spent 6 or more years bring it up to acceptable standards.

One thing we might consider doing - extending Shelton now rather than waiting til he has us by the cojones after the season.

Note - Shelton was our most durable offensive lineman last year (Heck! I think he was our ONLY durable lineman

I agree 100% jeff! LJ was our most consistent warrior in the trenches last year and he played rather well much of the season.

Our o-line is a strength and will be playing together for there 3rd full year I see no reason to screw it up!

Not to mention this is a pipe dream. Call me what you want but you heard it here first THE CARDINALS WILL NOT DRAFT A WR AT #6 I dont care what graves ib his radio interview! That is almost as stupid as him saying that we arent bringing in Emmitt for the sole purpose of selling tickets. We all know thats complete BS!

 

[stlouiecard]

Walter I quoted Krang

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell
Stlouiscard: You and I didn't discuss Shelton last week. Ever since there were rumblings from team management that they were going to move BIG to LT and slide Shelton to guard, I have been discussing the idea of trading Shelton...I even proposed a while back that the Cardinals try to trade Shelton for Kelly Holcomb. Shelton is going into the last year of his contract, so why not see now if the club can get something in return for him, rather than just letting him walk next year?

It would be nice to keep the offensive line intact, Jeff, as you suggest. But, there is no telling how Shelton will adapt to playing guard...or whether he would even want to convert to guard, especially in his contract year. Since it would appear certain that BIG and CLEM are the tackles of the future for the Cardinals, why not see what the team can get for Shelton? Even if the Cardinals don't add a guard like Brezinski, they would still have starters in Kendall and Dishman. Perhaps it would be better to try to sign C Jeff Christy and re-sign Raleigh Roundtree for depth.

It's just that the Cardinals now have so many need areas that trading Shelton may enable the team to upgrade other positions while still being able to boast one of the better offensive lines in the NFC.

As for Tyrone Calico, Krang, he's a reach at #37. He's from Middle Tennessee St. and while he looked good at the combine, he's still has to make a quantum leap to the pros. That's why it would make better sense to think of taking him in the third round, if he's still on the board. At #37, Krang, the Cardinals are going to be able to grab one of the top defensive linemen in the draft...the one area of the draft pool that's real deep. There will be a run on them in the first round, but several will still be on the board at #37...and even DEs Corey Redding and Michael Haynes may still be available, in addition to the three good DTs (Warren, Scott, and Joseph). This, IMO, is why the Cardinals can well afford to invest the #6 pick in a franchise QB, because they still can snag a defensive linemen with first round ability in the second round. DT/DE Kenny Peterson of Ohio State may slip to #37 too...it's quite possible.

 

[pinnacle]

walter.. I was thinking along the same line as you on 2 topics this morning (while reading NFL notes in the newspaper):

1. screw the game of musical chairs with blake, stewart and griese.. due to jakes contract - these 3 guys will command a fortune -and all 3 are high risk from a cost/performance standpoint..go after charlie batch and some other veteran qb. There are guys out there who have not had a shot who are better than the stewart, blake crowd...it is just that no one (including NFL scouts and GMs) know who these young guys are...example..Tim Rattay of san francisco from what I understand could be signed to an offer sheet and we would give up a 6th or 7th round pick. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE...but I would try something like this..what are we going to get in the 6th or 7th round anyway...and go after charlie batch.. Personally.. I think he (batch) is in the comparable category as blake stewart and griese..griese is better than the others..but he has injury and off the field issues. Sign batch - he would be cheaper than the others guys and you getting about the same thing... get a rattay type guy off of another team..let the 2 of them and mccown go after the starting job. If suggs is gone..get leftowich.

2. the veterans you mentioned are great..they are an upgrade over what we have, they would not count much against the cap..and it would help us convince the one or two stars we are after that we have a plan (colvin).. I have been wanting guys like this for ages - as you mention..the new england plan.

only trade up if you go to #1. No reason to trade up unless you are going after suggs..so why bother unless suggs is there.. which he will probably not be at #3....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: You know Krang

Originally posted by stlouiecard
It was just last Sunday that you and I went back and forth on this issue and weren't you opposed to moving Shelton??? What has changed your mind? Quite frankly, with the loss of Grutt I think the Cards will need to find a way to re-sign Shelton or if we do move him bringing in a good G like Brezinski would make sense.

No, I disagreed with your logic for moving Shelton----> the fact that we wouldn't resign him, and what you wanted for him, if I remember correctly.

I would move Shelton if we found a cheaper alternative that didn't screw up our line too bad. Brezinski is a nice player that could be had for much cheaper than Shelton.

He (Brezinski) would allow us to move Leonard to LT, thus making Shelton and his future huge contract expendable. We can't afford to keep investing huge sums of money in our oline (except for the tackles).

Our oline would look like this if we could resign Roundtree and add Brezinski:

LT: Davis
LG: Kendall
C: Starkey (or draft pick/FA)
RG: Brezinski
RT: Clement
Top backups: Dishman, Roundtree, Wragge, Grace.

Not only would I ask the Texans to switch picks in the 1st, I would ask for them to switch 2nds also. Maybe even throw their 3rd rounder in since we are giving them a good LT.

 

[Northern Card]

My 2 cents...

Our oline would look like this if we could re-sign Roundtree and Fina:

LT: Shelton
LG: Dishman
C: Kendall
RG: Davis
RT: Clement

Top backups: Roundtree, Fina, Starkey, Wragge, Grace.

and Shelton will sign a contract similar to Clement's.

After seeing DAVIS a RT last year with some problem handling speed rushers, I have some doubt as his ability to handle LT at this level. That said: there is nothing wrong with a perennial Pro Bowler at guard.