Should Curt Schilling be in the Hall of Fame?

[Lefty]

Curt's career wins are not where you would expect a Hall of Fame pitcher's totals to be, but his stats, including post season are impressive.

Jayson Starks makes his case for Curt getting into the Hall of Fame.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21220

 

[Mulli]

In. I also think Bert B and Jack Morris should be in (with Ron Santo).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

In.

 

[abomb]

Dont care for him, but there is no disputing his accomplishments.

 

[green machine]

In. I don't think wins should be as much of a requirement, since many times there isn't a damn thing a pitcher can do about not getting one.

 

[Beaver]

In, but it'll take a while.

 

[Mulli]

In, but it'll take a while.

If it does. Curt wil probably go off eventually.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

When this guy was "on" we was unhittable.

 

[nowagimp]

Curt's career wins are not where you would expect a Hall of Fame pitcher's totals to be, but his stats, including post season are impressive.

Jayson Starks makes his case for Curt getting into the Hall of Fame.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21220

I saw Curt as a phillie out pitching maddox in the post season, as a Dback with his unhittable stuff int he postseason and just being cagey and smart as a redsox pitcher. Schilling has been one of the most dominant pitchers in the postseason in his generation. Had he not been shackled to the phillies organization for his prime years, his wins total would certainly be much higher. He is definitely HOF material, his opponents batting average against the best hitters of his era(top 10 or so) is an eye opener when compared with the maddux, glavine, Clemens, R Johnson competition who are great pitchers and deserving in their own right.

 

[Mulli]

When this guy was "on" we was unhittable.

that splitter/forkball was unreal filthy.

 

[Mulli]

Looks like no one is arguing agin putting him in, but I have a question.

Without proof he did steroids, shouldn't he also get credit for pitching in both the juiced ball and the juiced player era?

 

[AZZenny]

Out, probably. He was not a dominant pitcher for his era. I'm not sure being a post-season stud earns HOF membership. There are probably a number of guys who deserve it much more.

 

[AZCB34]

I think he will get in but it will be a very long process for him...each year he will get a little closer until the big question every year when the vote comes up will be "Is this the year Schilling finally gets in?"

The question becomes, is it truly the Hall of FAME or is it the Hall of Very Very Good? That seems to be what the NFL HoF is becoming slowly but surely...not only the great but the very good and in some cases just the good.

Schilling will eventually get in but it will be an agonizingly long wait for him.

 

[BC867]

Out, probably. He was not a dominant pitcher for his era. I'm not sure being a post-season stud earns HOF membership. There are probably a number of guys who deserve it much more.

I agree with you, Zenny. A showman and a clutch post-season pitcher. But not a HOF career.

Unless you mean the Shadow Mountain HS hall of fame.

 

[phxrising]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21220

a snip-it from the link
THE CASE AGAINST


If you base your Hall decisions just on the old wins column, you won't vote for this man. That seems obvious. His 216 wins are 72 fewer than Tommy John, 71 fewer than Bert Blyleven and 38 fewer than Jack Morris. And none of those guys had a plaque last time I checked.

For that matter, if Schilling has thrown his last pitch, he'll also wind up with fewer wins than Joe Niekro (221) or Dennis Martinez (245). And neither of those guys even made it to a second year on the ballot. So clearly, that's what Nelson is referring to when he says "The numbers just are not there."

THE CASE FOR


Ah, but it depends which numbers you're looking at. And I looked at bunch of other numbers--numbers that rank all righthanded starters from 1992, the year Schilling first moved into the starting rotation in Philadelphia, through 2007, the year he apparently threw his final pitch in Boston. Here's what I found:

Schilling not only led all of them in complete games (with 83), but only one other righthander in the whole sport (Greg Maddux) was closer than 25 CGs away. Just Pedro Martinez had a better strikeout ratio than Schilling (8.59 K/9). Only Pedro and Roger Clemens had more strikeouts than Schilling (3,116) , period. Just Pedro and Maddux had a better WHIP than Schilling (1.137). And nobody had a better strikeout-walk ratio. In fact, Schilling's K/BB ratio (4.38 whiffs for every walk) ranks No. 1 among ALL PITCHERS IN THE MODERN ERA.

 

[nowagimp]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21220

a snip-it from the link
THE CASE AGAINST


If you base your Hall decisions just on the old wins column, you won't vote for this man. That seems obvious. His 216 wins are 72 fewer than Tommy John, 71 fewer than Bert Blyleven and 38 fewer than Jack Morris. And none of those guys had a plaque last time I checked.

For that matter, if Schilling has thrown his last pitch, he'll also wind up with fewer wins than Joe Niekro (221) or Dennis Martinez (245). And neither of those guys even made it to a second year on the ballot. So clearly, that's what Nelson is referring to when he says "The numbers just are not there."

THE CASE FOR


Ah, but it depends which numbers you're looking at. And I looked at bunch of other numbers--numbers that rank all righthanded starters from 1992, the year Schilling first moved into the starting rotation in Philadelphia, through 2007, the year he apparently threw his final pitch in Boston. Here's what I found:

Schilling not only led all of them in complete games (with 83), but only one other righthander in the whole sport (Greg Maddux) was closer than 25 CGs away. Just Pedro Martinez had a better strikeout ratio than Schilling (8.59 K/9). Only Pedro and Roger Clemens had more strikeouts than Schilling (3,116) , period. Just Pedro and Maddux had a better WHIP than Schilling (1.137). And nobody had a better strikeout-walk ratio. In fact, Schilling's K/BB ratio (4.38 whiffs for every walk) ranks No. 1 among ALL PITCHERS IN THE MODERN ERA.

The problem with the wins evaluation is that it depends on run support and relievers closing out his quality starts. Randy Johnson was famous for his toiling with terrible run support on the Dbacks. Schilling during his long career with the phillies had terrible relief worse than randy could have imagined. Greg Maddux had great run support and some of the best bullpen pitchers behind him in all of baseball, as did tom glavine. Schilling outpitched em both head to head with a lesser offense behind him. I am not concerned whether schilling makes the Hall, plenty of steriod users will make it and Pete Rose didnt, HAHA! Schilling also spent some time injured in the mid 90's and injury can derail the required consistency for HOF. But schilling was the most dominant pitcher in his generation in the clutch, when he had to win. His postseason 2.23 era and 11-2 record, and he led the majors in CG from 92-2007. Greg Maddux was 10-11 3.34 era in the post season and he will certainly make the hall.