Should Glaus shut it down for the year?

Lefty

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I wonder if the best thing for Glaus and the team is for him to call it a year and have surgery to correct his knee?

Got this from today's Arizona Daily Star:

Around the NL West

● DIAMONDBACKS: Arizona was undone by its rotation in a 9-19 June in which Brandon Webb had five quality starts - and the rest of the rotation had four. … The Diamondbacks have concerns at third base. Troy Glaus celebrated the break by receiving his third cortisone shot behind his left knee.
 

green machine

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I would say that it would be more wise to put him on the DL for a bit, and see if it helps at all. I know they don't think it will, but before shutting him down for the rest of the year, that's the route I'd go.
 

overseascardfan

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Zona90 said:
I wonder if the best thing for Glaus and the team is for him to call it a year and have surgery to correct his knee?

Got this from today's Arizona Daily Star:

Around the NL West

● DIAMONDBACKS: Arizona was undone by its rotation in a 9-19 June in which Brandon Webb had five quality starts - and the rest of the rotation had four. … The Diamondbacks have concerns at third base. Troy Glaus celebrated the break by receiving his third cortisone shot behind his left knee.

According to team physician, surgery isn't necessary only lots of rest. The article in the ArizRep said that Dr. Lee said the knee can't get any worse but it will still be painful.
 

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I think he should sit, but I would like the option of playing Tracy at 3rd and bringing up Conor to play 1st. I have always liked how Tracy plays (a contact hitter who doesn't strike out as much as Glaus) and I think Conor has earned a chance to be brought up.
 

AZZenny

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Apart from reduced speed affecting maybe a few singles, I'm not convinced Glaus's injury is affecting his batting that much - maybe his energy level, because I agree he sure looks uncomfortable out there.

He is on exactly the pace he should be for all numbers - Avg., HR, RBI, BB:K, OPS - the only difference being he is hitting about 75 pts lower with RISP than his career average. His numbers are indistinguishable from Sexson's at the moment, except Glaus has 10 fewer rbi and 20 fewer Ks. He's a slugger - that's what they do. Remember Matt Williams?

I'm curious - what did you think we were getting?
 

ajcardfan

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boondockdrunk said:
I think he should sit, but I would like the option of playing Tracy at 3rd and bringing up Conor to play 1st. I have always liked how Tracy plays (a contact hitter who doesn't strike out as much as Glaus) and I think Conor has earned a chance to be brought up.

Tracy was a train wreck at third last year. He's playing well at first, but that's because he hardly ever has to make any throws.

As for Glaus, it's too early to shut him down. The team needs to at least attempt to make a strong pennant race. Blowing off the season now would look like the management doesn't beleive in the team. Maybe they don't. But they need to pretend like they do for next year because they will still be counting on all of these guys they gave big contracts to this year.
 
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MaoTosiFanClub

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Speaking of Glaus...

Is there a reason (other than his salary) why he is not on the trading block? The Reds apparently nixed a C.C. Sabathia for Joe Randa deal. Bill Mueller for J.C. Romero is another rumor that has been floating around. Shea Hillenbrand is all of a sudden a hot commodity. Wouldn't it be logical thinking to get rid of Glaus, his fat contract, and his brittle bones while 3B's value are through the roof? Or will Tracy be the sacrificial lamb once Conor takes over first come September?
 

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Wouldn't it be logical thinking to get rid of Glaus, his fat contract, and his brittle bones while 3B's value are through the roof? Or will Tracy be the sacrificial lamb once Conor takes over first come September?


Yes, it would be logical thinking if you were an intelligent GM, and you realized that this team has a bunch of good young position players, and were just a few good pitching prospects away from the best minor league system in baseball. Then you wouldn't invest money in worthless crap like Ortiz. Perhaps we can throw him, Clayton and Cruz in the deal and prove what brilliant signings Joe G rustled together this last offseason.... :rolleyes:
 

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What pisses me off are the reports saying the front office won't move anybody they acquired in the offseason because they don't want to admit they made mistakes. Um, isn't that adults are supposed to do? And while you're admitting your mistakes, how about owning up to that Gonzo contract? The guy's done and the Astros (Luis' original squad) need a LF bat in the worst way and are throwing everything at 2005-2006 anyways while Clemens is still pitching.

But we all know that there is more MediocreBall coming. I personally can't wait for 2006 when Gonzo, Green, Ortiz, Glaus, and Counsell will all be back to take up half the payroll with their diminishing skill sets.:rolleyes:
 
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coyoteshockeyfan

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
But we all know that there is more MediocreBall coming. I personally can't wait for 2006 when Gonzo, Green, Ortiz, Glaus, and Counsell will all be back to take up half the payroll with their diminishing skill sets.:rolleyes:
Four of those five guys are doing pretty well, I'd say. That said, it is about time to trade Gonzo, either by the trading deadline or in the upcoming offseason.
 

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Trading Gonzo would never happen. Here is why:

Gonzo is seen as the face of the D-Backs, he is their cover boy on most, if not all, of their publications/advertisements/promotions.
Gonzo is a fan favorite; probably the only one that the casual fan recognizes and comes to see at the ballpark.
Attendance is down again, and doesn't look to improve anytime soon
Gonzo is still somewhat productive at the plate
Gonzo is a willing ambassador of the D-Backs
Gonzo is a good citizen



So here it is – if ‘brass’ traded Gonzo, you would see attendance continue on the decline, thus any profits out the window. Besides, all of the assets of Gonzo are valuable only to the D-Backs and not other teams (his arm is below average, age is high, and contract is even higher). Therefore, we can’t get value for value in a trade. I believe the best they could get is an average big-leaguer and a prospect. We wouldn’t get an All-Star, nor could we get a solid 1 or 2 for our pitching rotation.


We should look to move Glaus, and Glaus only at this point. I wouldn't give up on Green.


On the other hand, if we could get a free car wash and a bowl of ice cream for Jose Cruze Jr - pull the trigger.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Gonzo's OPS the last three years:

2003 - 934
2004 - 866
2005 - 804

Fans come to the ballpark to see a winning product, not to see Luis Gonzalez continually screw up in important spots.
 

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green machine said:
I would say that it would be more wise to put him on the DL for a bit, and see if it helps at all. I know they don't think it will, but before shutting him down for the rest of the year, that's the route I'd go.

I'm with the "Green" here rest him for a couple of weeks - then find out if he needs surgery.
 

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coyoteshockeyfan said:
Four of those five guys are doing pretty well, I'd say. That said, it is about time to trade Gonzo, either by the trading deadline or in the upcoming offseason.
What four is that? Gonzo, Ortiz, and Glaus are all in statistical decline compared to prevoius years and are only getting older. I wouldn't say these guys are having "good" years considering they all were better as recently as 2004.
 
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coyoteshockeyfan

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
What four is that? Gonzo, Ortiz, and Glaus are all in statistical decline compared to prevoius years and are only getting older. I wouldn't say these guys are having "good" years considering they all were better as recently as 2004.
My four were Gonzo, Glaus, Green, and Counsell. Glaus is on pace for 96 RBIs and 79 runs, and is currently above his career average in average, on base percentage, and slugging. So I dont see how he is on much of a statistical decline. Gonzalez has been sliding a bit the last couple of weeks, but he is still having a good (but not great) year for the team. However, like I said above, I believe it is about time to trade Gonzo as the team will obviously be relying more on the farm system in the near future. Ortiz is unquestionably having an awful year, hence why I said only 4 of those 5 were having pretty good years.
 

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I would contend again that Glaus's #'s are quite misleading. Dayn Perry points out, "Troy Glaus appears to be having a strong year on the surface, his home-road splits tell a different story … Glaus at the BOB: .304 AVG/.411 OBP/.615 SLG. Glaus on the road: .207 AVG/.304 OBP/.402 SLG. Basically, he's Albert Pujols at home and Russ Adams in someone else's crib."


Ouch... :biglaugh:
 

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I would contend again that Glaus's #'s are quite misleading.

I don't see how they're misleading as much as incomplete - the home/away piece is very interesting, but it doesn't invalidate his total numbers - which are about where you would put him on career-based projections. What the split you show helps explain is the fans' extreme sense of disappointment - while his overall numbers are pretty much standard slugger, he really does struggle terribly at least half the time - and probably when people are more likely to watch on TV. Obviously if we have a 3rd baseman with reverse splits, they should platoon! Cintron is a bit better away than home - .294 away, .260 home.

Sexson, btw, has the reverse problem - .226 BA and .790 OPS at home, .305/.978 away.

What I find fascinating is that in 0-2, 1-2, or 2-2 count, Glaus has a horrendous OBP over the past several years - combined those situations his OBP is around .125. Get him to a 3-2 count and the patience kicks in, and he has a .486 OBP.
 

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AZZenny said:
I don't see how they're misleading as much as incomplete - the home/away piece is very interesting, but it doesn't invalidate his total numbers - which are about where you would put him on career-based projections. What the split you show helps explain is the fans' extreme sense of disappointment - while his overall numbers are pretty much standard slugger, he really does struggle terribly at least half the time - and probably when people are more likely to watch on TV. Obviously if we have a 3rd baseman with reverse splits, they should platoon! Cintron is a bit better away than home - .294 away, .260 home.

Sexson, btw, has the reverse problem - .226 BA and .790 OPS at home, .305/.978 away.

What I find fascinating is that in 0-2, 1-2, or 2-2 count, Glaus has a horrendous OBP over the past several years - combined those situations his OBP is around .125. Get him to a 3-2 count and the patience kicks in, and he has a .486 OBP.

Sexson plays in a pitchers park
Glaus plays in a hitters park
 

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ASUCHRIS said:
I would contend again that Glaus's #'s are quite misleading. Dayn Perry points out, "Troy Glaus appears to be having a strong year on the surface, his home-road splits tell a different story … Glaus at the BOB: .304 AVG/.411 OBP/.615 SLG. Glaus on the road: .207 AVG/.304 OBP/.402 SLG. Basically, he's Albert Pujols at home and Russ Adams in someone else's crib."
So you're telling me we got the next coming of Vinny Castilla on our hands at $10 million a season?
 
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ASUCHRIS

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
So you're telling me we got the next coming of Vinny Castilla on our hands at $10 million a season?

See, that's the thing with all of these contracts, which pisses the hell out of me. We give huge money to players that are very good, but incomplete players. I think that some people are under the false impression that we are a large market team, and can spend like this. Spin it however you want, this team isn't very good, nor will it be with huge amounts of money invested in players like Gonzo Glaus and Ortiz. We needed to avoid big contracts, get good value players, and improve our pitching like everyone said before the last offseason. Instead we pay way too much money for a group of players that contribute very little, and hamper our chances to invest in quality players in the future. I'd much rather have a situation like the Cardinals, build around your young talent, cut away all the excess fat, and then add around the strengths of the young talent. Pathetic that the Cards are the brilliant example and the D-Backs are the idiots. Who would have ever thought that would have happened 5 years ago?
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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ASUCHRIS said:
See, that's the thing with all of these contracts, which pisses the hell out of me. We give huge money to players that are very good, but incomplete players.
How many complete players are there in the entire game?
I think that some people are under the false impression that we are a large market team, and can spend like this.
Spend like this? Their payroll is 16th in the league. They have shed something like $10M off of last year's payroll alone. It stands at $63M this year, and that doesnt include a cent of the $19M the team picked up in the off-season, and more notably, management has stated that they are "under budget." Plus, there is another $8M ready to come off the books at the end of the season, and even more if Gonzalez is traded.
I'd much rather have a situation like the Cardinals, build around your young talent, cut away all the excess fat, and then add around the strengths of the young talent. Pathetic that the Cards are the brilliant example and the D-Backs are the idiots. Who would have ever thought that would have happened 5 years ago?
I am not certain which Cardinals team you are suggesting here, but I am guessing its the Arizona Cardinals as the St. Louis Cardinals do not have much young, homegrown talent on their roster. Exactly what have the Arizona Cards done to deserve such a tag as being a "brilliant example?" They havent won anything yet, and its anybodys guess as to how they will do this year. Has their drafting improved the last two years? Sure. Have they proven capable of doing anything yet? Nope, they have done absolutely nothing.
 

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The thing that pisses me off about some of these contracts is they were pretty predictably overpaid and overlong, and they continue the inconsistent FO blueprint. And now that most of them are injured at the trade deadline, we're certainly not going to be able to shed them.

Ortiz was widely regarded by national baseball writers as the worst signing of the offseason. Hell, you do NOT pick up a pitcher the Braves dump!
We all agreed IF Glaus was healthy - which he's not, at great cost to his defense and baserunning - this guy used to steal bases, get doubles, now he hobbles out a single - he might be worth it, and we have no hotshot 3B prospects on the verge anyhow.
Green - the main problem is the length of contract blocks Carlos Quentin way too long, and the money makes Green pretty untradeable. Likewise Gonzo, whom I fully expect to see here in 2007 when the FO picks up the option.
 

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AZZenny said:
The thing that pisses me off about some of these contracts is they were pretty predictably overpaid and overlong, and they continue the inconsistent FO blueprint. And now that most of them are injured at the trade deadline, we're certainly not going to be able to shed them.

Ortiz was widely regarded by national baseball writers as the worst signing of the offseason. Hell, you do NOT pick up a pitcher the Braves dump!
We all agreed IF Glaus was healthy - which he's not, at great cost to his defense and baserunning - this guy used to steal bases, get doubles, now he hobbles out a single - he might be worth it, and we have no hotshot 3B prospects on the verge anyhow.
Green - the main problem is the length of contract blocks Carlos Quentin way too long, and the money makes Green pretty untradeable. Likewise Gonzo, whom I fully expect to see here in 2007 when the FO picks up the option.

The FO does have a strategy.

Deceive the public into buying season tickets by signing marginal players with recognizable names and trim payroll. They overpaid because they panicked . Last year attendance was WAY down and they felt they had to get some "names" to put butts back in the seats.
 

ASUCHRIS

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coyoteshockeyfan said:
How many complete players are there in the entire game?

Spend like this? Their payroll is 16th in the league. They have shed something like $10M off of last year's payroll alone. It stands at $63M this year, and that doesnt include a cent of the $19M the team picked up in the off-season, and more notably, management has stated that they are "under budget." Plus, there is another $8M ready to come off the books at the end of the season, and even more if Gonzalez is traded.

I am not certain which Cardinals team you are suggesting here, but I am guessing its the Arizona Cardinals as the St. Louis Cardinals do not have much young, homegrown talent on their roster. Exactly what have the Arizona Cards done to deserve such a tag as being a "brilliant example?" They havent won anything yet, and its anybodys guess as to how they will do this year. Has their drafting improved the last two years? Sure. Have they proven capable of doing anything yet? Nope, they have done absolutely nothing.


I am speaking specifically to our huge contracts for Glaus, Green, Gonzo and Ortiz. These players simply don't justify the money they are getting. More specifically we added quite a bit of payroll in the offseason for Glaus Green and Ortiz, and we've seen how that worked out. We don't have the abilities of a team like the Yankees or Boston or Chicago to overpay anyone. Every contract should be a well thought out one, and I fail to see that with many of our signings. There are teams with much smaller payrolls that are far more successful. Perhaps we should try and learn from them.

The problem here is an issue of perception. We were a terrible team last year, and management somehow came up with a grand scheme to add veterans with the idea that they could contend. Let's not fool ourselves, this team is terrible. They have every opportunity to jump on the worst division in years, yet we are still losing series after series.

I believe that if you compare both the Cardinals and the D-Backs, there are a lot of similarities. Rosters filled with mediocre players and no sense of direction. The Cardinals purged the rosters, decided to build through the draft and they have completely changed the perception (and hopefully the results) of the team. This is in stark contrast to the Dbacks, who last season decided to invest way too much into a bunch of players that have made minor differences, but will in no way lead this team to the playoffs. At least with the Cardinals you can make a realistic argument that those in charge are making the right moves and "have a plan". That's the most frustrating aspect of what the Dbacks are doing, there appears to be no plan, just delusions of grandeur.

I don't want to seem like a wet blanket, because we've gone through this argument before, but I love the D-Backs as well, but ever since we've won the championship, I've seen a complete lack of direction and it frustrates me to no end. If we didnt have some unbelievable drafting, things would be looking extremely glum.
 

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