SI Story on Nash/Dirk - Intersting comments from Stat

DeAnna

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Brothers in arms

Dirk, Nash take separate paths to carve stellar careers

Posted: Friday April 20, 2007 8:03PM;

For a magazine story on Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, I recently spent time around both the Mavs and the Suns. Much of what I learned was to be expected. Nowitzki, for example, is such a gym rat that Avery Johnson has to threaten him with $1,000 fines so he doesn't come to the arena on off-days (says Nowitzki, "I pay a lot of fines"). On the Suns, Leandro Barbosa models himself after Nash to the point where he regularly takes home DVDs of his teammate ("I watch the DVD and then I watch again," says Barbosa, "to be more like Steve.").

There were, however, some surprises. One of the questions I asked of the Mavs and Suns players was which of the two -- Nash or Nowitzki -- they would choose to build a team around. The expected, and safe answer, is to praise one's teammate (as Devin Harris of the Mavs did, saying: "How do you not choose a seven-footer with an unstoppable fadeaway?"). Then there's the route chosen by Amare Stoudemire, the Suns center. Asked who he'd pick between the two, Stoudemire said: "Shaq."

Told this wasn't an option, Stoudemire then brought up Kobe Bryant. "Don't forget Kobe," said Stoudemire. "In the MVP talk, remember that Steve has three All-Stars and Dirk has two. Kobe has none."

Ignoring for a moment Stoudemire's curious math (apparently, Steve and Dirk count as All-Stars but Kobe does not), it is interesting that Stoudemire made an effort not to say Nash, the man some would argue is responsible for much of Stoudemire's success. Especially right before the playoffs are to begin, when chemistry is paramount. (Told of the comment, one member of the Suns said, "What do you expect from a guy who chooses a jersey number of one?").

For perspective, Stoudemire did answer this question a few weeks ago, when the Suns were in the midst of a swoon. Still, diplomacy is clearly not his strong suit (apparently, there is no D in STAT, some would argue in more ways than one).

Other observations about the two MVP front-runners as we head into the playoffs:
Despite Nash's success against the Mavericks, some Dallas players believe the make-him-shoot strategy is still the wisest. "He's just going to pass the ball," says Jerry Stackhouse. "He feels like if he's getting thirty points, it's almost too much. He's going to force passes, to the point where he can be baited into having a big turnover game just because he's going to pass the ball."

Nowitzki is figuring out how to lead. More than one Dallas player mentioned Nowitzki's penchant for yelling at teammates, something he used to do when he felt they weren't playing up to his standards. Now he's dialed that back. "He's a much better leader now," says Jason Terry. "In times of adversity, he picks guys up, whereas in the past he may have berated a teammate or really got on them and shown them up."

Nash often seems like he could have been your college buddy, if your college buddy went on to be an MVP.
This is a guy who, the year after winning the MVP, joined a pick-up game in Hudson River Park in the Bronx because he happened to be running by and, well, the fellas asked him to play. He's the guy who insists every endorsement deal he signs -- and he does not like to sign many -- has a charitable component (in a current, mildly dorky magazine ad for a watch company, look in the bottom right corner to see the Nash Foundation emblem). "He's a little weird," jibes Nowitzki. "Definitely a Greenpeace kind of guy."

In the magazine story, I recount a number of instances where he instigates impromptu competition among his friends (including an unusual bar crawl through Dallas). Here's one anecdote that didn't make the cut. During his Mavs years, Nash spent a lot of time hanging out with Al Whitley, a childhood friend who's now the Mavs equipment manager. One night, Whitley and another buddy showed up at Nash's place at 1 a.m. and began having a beer-fueled debate about who was faster. Nash decided the two should settle it right then, so he took them out to the street and marked off 100 meters, then pitted the two in a race (Whitley won). "Most competitive guy I know," says Whitley.

Nowitzki is getting better at it, but still hates dealing with his fame. Clearly, he'd be ecstatic if he never posed for another photo-shoot the rest of his life ("It takes four hours and I have to put on makeup," he laments. "I could be home reading a book or doing something else."). Another example: When he and Nash went to Nash's place to eat dinner and watch the Final Four the night before the April 1 Suns-Mavs game, Nash stopped at a grocery market to get food. Nowitzki then threw what Nash jokingly calls a "sh-tfit in the car" because he didn't want to deal with the public reaction that would ensue. "He said he wasn't going into the market," says Nash. "Of course, eventually he did. He just likes to complain."

Gregg Elkin, former head of media relations for the Mavericks and now a PR director for the Texas Rangers, remembers Nowitzki struggling with his celebrity early on. "Dirk was surprised people wanted to talk to him," says Elkin. "I remember his dad asking me what his son could do to avoid attention. All I could come up with was maybe he should sit down when in public, so he wasn't as obvious."



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Nash takes the blame when he feels it is warranted. Suns coach Mike D'Antoni says Nash picks his spots to talk up. "After a tough loss, a couple times this season, Steve's come into the locker room and I'll be in the middle of talking to the team," says D'Antoni. "He'll say, 'Hey guys, I screwed this one up, I wasn't sharp tonight. It's on me. Let's do it next time.'"

But that doesn't mean it doesn't eat away at Nash.
There is an edge to Nash, it's just that he tries to contain it. You can see it when he occasionally gets a technical for yelling at a ref, as recently happened against the Warriors, or when he quietly stews in frustration over a selfish play by a teammate after a game. Good friend Randy Winn, the Giants outfielder who roomed with Nash at Santa Clara, says, "Steve's always been a little feisty." Nash says it's a matter of containment. "When I go home, I can shut it off," he says. "When I come in here, there's a fire in me that gets me frustrated and angry and challenges me to, I guess, stay composed. In general, under the surface, there are a lot more technicals. I'm just using that as an example. Under the surface, there's a lot more rage or frustration but I just learn to control it."

Earlier in his career, it wasn't frustration with teammates as much as figuring out his role. Especially during his first couple years in Dallas, when he was trying to fit in while battling injuries. "He overpassed," says Winn, who remains close with Nash (the two hung out this spring while Winn was in Scottsdale for spring training). "You could see it. He wouldn't even shoot ten-footers."

Says Nash: "Early in my career, I had a lot more anxiety. In Dallas for a while, I didn't know quite how to cope with that. Now, the last three years in particular, I've kind of worked through that. I have so much balance in my life off the court, even before I had kids, that I can let go of it for a few hours."
When he does become anxious, Nash says he copes by making a mental list of what he'll do the next day: when he'll get to the gym, when and how he'll lift, what he'll work on, whether it's shooting on the move or free throws.
Nowitzki is nowhere near as dour as his countenance might suggest.

This was a mild surprise, given Nowitzki's public persona (see here for a nice description of his 'dagger face.' "When I came over from the Lakers, I figured he'd be real serious and professional and buttoned-down," says Mavs reserve forward Devean George, signed as a free agent last summer. "But it turns out he's a total nutcase. He's trying to tell jokes all the time and a lot of times we need him to focus, so we have to tell him to focus, because otherwise he just goes down the line, talking with this guy, messing with this guy." George pauses, then adds: "But when that ball goes up, he's all business." As Mavs coach Del Harris, who calls Nowitzki a 'clown,' put it, "He knows when to take the red nose off."
 
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DeAnna

DeAnna

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Ok, I am officially starting to get annoyed at Stat. That's twice that he has publicly dissed Nash - is there some kind of feud between those two? I'm guessing those comments about 'a teammate's selfish play' were directed at #1.

And what's with all the man-love for Kobe? If he wants the Suns fans to turn on him, that's a good way to do it. :mad:
 

Gaddabout

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From what I've been told, the public doesn't even know the half of Stoudemire's discontent. It was told to me in a way that Stoudemire maybe didn't deal with emotional issues from his surgery, and is a little bitter about his sudden limitations while his teammate appears in line for his third MVP. The one thing Stoudemire has done well until recently is not put it on public display.

I'm not one to pass on rumors, but this is from someone who has watched it unfold first hand.
 

Treesquid PhD

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From what I've been told, the public doesn't even know the half of Stoudemire's discontent. It was told to me in a way that Stoudemire maybe didn't deal with emotional issues from his surgery, and is a little bitter about his sudden limitations while his teammate appears in line for his third MVP. The one thing Stoudemire has done well until recently is not put it on public display.

I'm not one to pass on rumors, but this is from someone who has watched it unfold first hand.

Sounds to me like he is just being an ass on purpose to screw with the media and get a reaction out of people. I think STAT is trolling.
I think the fact that fans get all worked up over this kind of crap is just a overreaction and a result of having every word you say analyzed.

People get so used to hearing proverb after proverb they just can't handle an athlete actually speaking his mind.
 

NastyOne

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Jesus Christ here we go again :bang:

If he said "No comment" some of you would still think it was a diss against Nash.

Who cares who Amare thinks is the best player to build a team around.

Its his opinion and none of us have a right to get angry with him over it.

And i'd also take Kobe and a young Shaq over Nash and Dirk too.

And i know the reporter asked him to choose between Dirk and Nash, but if Amare was thinking Dirk (Alot of people would take Dirk) and said it then its a huge ass problem so he changed the question to say something that wouldnt hurt his teammate but also wouldnt make him have to lie.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Stoudemire said.
 

azirish

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Have we ever NOT been irriated with Stat? Remember the flack he got about the chest beating and the taunting? Remember the friction he had with JJ? And now it's that he does not give pure platitudes whenever somebody asks him a question.

Let's compare him to guys like Kobe who drove away one of the greatest players ever. Or perhaps KG who never seems to co-exist with the few quality players he's been with (Googs took less money to come to the Suns).

One thing about Amare is that he plays hard and proved to have an incredible amount of gut to come back from injuries the way he has. He may not say all the right things, but I suspect every one of his teammates knows just how important he is to their chances of winning a title.
 

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Have we ever NOT been irriated with Stat?

My recollection is that until his injury he was as much of a god as anyone--described as absolutely untradeable and the core member of any future championship team.

I too have a lot of respect for him for coming back and playing all 82 games. I wish he had KT's demeanor and unselfishness, but he's about as contributory a malcontent as you'll find. I wonder whar will happen to the team re trade demands, etc., if we don't win it all.

He might just be pissed that he isn't getting as many shots as he should on nights when he can totally dominate opposing bigs. That seems to be more Barbosa and Diaw's fault than Nash's, but Nash tries to distribute evenly and encourage the 3pt shooters, too.
 

CaptainInsano

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I really don't think it is a big deal, but lets just say it is for the heck of it.

We could trade Amare, Banks, KT and the cleveland pick for sign and trade KG. This would take 3 million off our total salary and of course we get KG.

Minny gets young talent in Stoudamire and they have crap for center if you count KG as PF, young talent in banks back, another center in KT who is on a valuable expiring contract and a good draft pick.

Then we hopefully get the hawks pick and draft horford.
 

elindholm

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I like Garnett a lot, but he's not really an inside player. Like Nowitzki, he can operate in the post if he has to, but he prefers to avoid it. I think part of the reason that Garnett has had almost no postseason success is that he isn't much of a grinder on the offensive end. Even the "soft" Gasol gets to the line more often than Garnett.

From a pure basketball standpoint, the pairing you want is Garnett and Stoudemire, not Garnett and Marion. Of course achieving the former is probably impossible, but achieving the latter really isn't going to do much for you. If Stoudemire has to be the one to go, I'd rather have Gasol than Garnett.
 
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NastyOne

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I would trade both Marion and Nash before i even thought about moving Amare.

He was this teams future before Nash got here and he still is imo.

I'd rather have the next 10+ years of Amare playing at a high level, than 2-4 of Nash.

Hopefully the Suns never have to choose between the two and all this crap has just been blown out of propotion.
 
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DeAnna

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Jesus Christ here we go again :bang:

If he said "No comment" some of you would still think it was a diss against Nash.

Who cares who Amare thinks is the best player to build a team around.

Its his opinion and none of us have a right to get angry with him over it.

And i'd also take Kobe and a young Shaq over Nash and Dirk too.

And i know the reporter asked him to choose between Dirk and Nash, but if Amare was thinking Dirk (Alot of people would take Dirk) and said it then its a huge ass problem so he changed the question to say something that wouldnt hurt his teammate but also wouldnt make him have to lie.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Stoudemire said.

No, it's not 'here we go again' - this has only happened twice in the last month. For whatever reason, he's being a *ick-head about not wanting to endorse the guy that feeds him the ball for all those easy baskets. Kobe? Puleezzzz...

It's a matter of being a good teammate and knowing when you need to be policitally correct. Sure, I admire his honesty now, but he has historically been known and a cliche-machine and never before gave an honest opinion on anything, 'no doubt about it.'

I doubt Stat is smart enough to be able to manipulate the media that way.
 

elindholm

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Speaking of SI

Did anyone see the little graphic feature, early in the magazine, about how the NBA champion is usually a team with a modest payroll? They say that the Suns have this year's highest player payroll, at $82 million. Since when? Hoopshype has them at $67 million, and there's no way they can be off by that much. (Not only that, but three teams are above the $82 million mark that SI made up as its "maximum.") I've been trying to figure out what the magazine was thinking and where they got their numbers. Its rare for them to be so far wrong on simple data that's publically available.
 

JS22

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I really don't think it is a big deal, but lets just say it is for the heck of it.

We could trade Amare, Banks, KT and the cleveland pick for sign and trade KG. This would take 3 million off our total salary and of course we get KG.

Minny gets young talent in Stoudamire and they have crap for center if you count KG as PF, young talent in banks back, another center in KT who is on a valuable expiring contract and a good draft pick.

Then we hopefully get the hawks pick and draft horford.

Just.....no!
 
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JS22

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No, it's not 'here we go again' - this has only happened twice in the last month. For whatever reason, he's being a *ick-head about not wanting to endorse the guy that feeds him the ball for all those easy baskets. Kobe? Puleezzzz...

It's a matter of being a good teammate and knowing when you need to be policitally correct. Sure, I admire his honesty now, but he has historically been known and a cliche-machine and never before gave an honest opinion on anything, 'no doubt about it.'

I doubt Stat is smart enough to be able to manipulate the media that way.

I can only assume that Amare is a bit jealous of Nash, and his 2 MVP's.
 

mribnik

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I could really care less about this. I remember not even wanting to talk to my girlfriend on instant messenger because you can't see someone's body language or their tone from a few words on the computer, and she'd get all upset about nothing. My guess is this all means nothing.
 

sunsfn

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No, it's not 'here we go again' - this has only happened twice in the last month. For whatever reason, he's being a *ick-head about not wanting to endorse the guy that feeds him the ball for all those easy baskets. Kobe? Puleezzzz...

It's a matter of being a good teammate and knowing when you need to be policitally correct. Sure, I admire his honesty now, but he has historically been known and a cliche-machine and never before gave an honest opinion on anything, 'no doubt about it.'

I doubt Stat is smart enough to be able to manipulate the media that way.

ALL RIGHT DEANNA!

I agree completely, and was going to respond, but you wrote it a lot better than I can!
 

asudevil83

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this just came to mind here:

does anyone think that Nash just doesnt want to win the MVP? do you know how much controversy we'd get from him winning three in a row, when a lot of people dont even think he deserves the two he's got.

not getting the endorsement from his teammates may just be one way to ensure that he doesnt win #3.

just a thought.
 

sunsfn

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this just came to mind here:

does anyone think that Nash just doesnt want to win the MVP? do you know how much controversy we'd get from him winning three in a row, when a lot of people dont even think he deserves the two he's got.

not getting the endorsement from his teammates may just be one way to ensure that he doesnt win #3.

just a thought.


NO!
 

Joe Mama

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I think those of you trying to write this off as the media making something of nothing are way off here. It seems pretty obvious that there are issues with Amare Stoudemire and others on this team, especially the coaching staff. This is actually the third or fourth time these issues have been gotten attention in the media. Chad Ford is not making it up these ideas of trading Amare out of thin air.

I like Garnett a lot, but he's not really an inside player. Like Nowitzki, he can operate in the post if he has to, but he prefers to avoid it. I think part of the reason that Garnett has had almost no postseason success is that he isn't much of a grinder on the offensive end. Even the "soft" Gasol gets to the line more often than Garnett.

From a pure basketball standpoint, the pairing you want is Garnett and Stoudemire, not Garnett and Marion. Of course achieving the former is probably impossible, but achieving the latter really isn't going to do much for you. If Stoudemire has to be the one to go, I'd rather have Gasol than Garnett.

I know it probably seems like I have a love affair with KG. To me the reasons for not trading Amari for KG have everything to do with the future and nothing to do with the present. In my opinion this team would be much, much better this year and probably for the next couple years with KG.

KG does not operate inside right now because he doesn't have anybody getting him shots around the basket like Steve Nash is doing for Amare Stoudemire. This isn't Amare Stoudemire from 2005 who got a good number of his baskets off isolation plays. Almost all of his offense around the basket is from offense created by others.

Don't get me wrong. Amari is a great finisher even now. He has great hands. Even though he isn't the player he was a couple years ago he still very good... often simply. On the other end of the court it's another story. If he's any better than he was a couple years ago it's not by a whole lot, and frankly that's not saying a lot because he was horrible before.

If we could magically switch Amare and KG from this season I really don't think we would lose anything offensively. We might even be better. Defense would be another story. I think the Phoenix Suns would be significantly better.

Who is the third All-Star by the way? Nash is playing with two All-Stars, and one or likely both of them would not have been All-Stars without him.

If the Suns don't win a championship this year I think we will be hearing a lot more of these rumors regarding Amare Stoudemire. He won't necessarily be traded. They don't have to dump him obviously. However, I do think we will hear a lot of talk about possible trades, and it won't just be guys like Sam Smith making stuff up to sell papers.

Joe
 

Treesquid PhD

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23 and 12 in game 1, but of course it will be grazed over as nothing by the be nice crowd.

is this the same be nice crowd that wants to give James Jones 258 chances to prove he is a shooting gaurd?

Oh he tries hard, blah blah.
 

Treesquid PhD

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I think those of you trying to write this off as the media making something of nothing are way off here. It seems pretty obvious that there are issues with Amare Stoudemire and others on this team, especially the coaching staff. This is actually the third or fourth time these issues have been gotten attention in the media. Chad Ford is not making it up these ideas of trading Amare out of thin air.



I know it probably seems like I have a love affair with KG. To me the reasons for not trading Amari for KG have everything to do with the future and nothing to do with the present. In my opinion this team would be much, much better this year and probably for the next couple years with KG.

KG does not operate inside right now because he doesn't have anybody getting him shots around the basket like Steve Nash is doing for Amare Stoudemire. This isn't Amare Stoudemire from 2005 who got a good number of his baskets off isolation plays. Almost all of his offense around the basket is from offense created by others.

Don't get me wrong. Amari is a great finisher even now. He has great hands. Even though he isn't the player he was a couple years ago he still very good... often simply. On the other end of the court it's another story. If he's any better than he was a couple years ago it's not by a whole lot, and frankly that's not saying a lot because he was horrible before.

If we could magically switch Amare and KG from this season I really don't think we would lose anything offensively. We might even be better. Defense would be another story. I think the Phoenix Suns would be significantly better.

Who is the third All-Star by the way? Nash is playing with two All-Stars, and one or likely both of them would not have been All-Stars without him.

If the Suns don't win a championship this year I think we will be hearing a lot more of these rumors regarding Amare Stoudemire. He won't necessarily be traded. They don't have to dump him obviously. However, I do think we will hear a lot of talk about possible trades, and it won't just be guys like Sam Smith making stuff up to sell papers.

Joe


Sorry the first one to go will be your boy Marcus Banks.
 

Joe Mama

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Sorry the first one to go will be your boy Marcus Banks.

If you can find a taker. I'm sure they would like to get rid of Marcus Banks first, but that's almost certainly going to take packaging him with somebody else or picks.

Joe
 

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