Silver Lining: Tyler Wilson is going to have some W-E-A-P-O-N-S

[kerouac9]

K9 what makes you so sure Wilson will even be available? The Chiefs,

Bills Jaguars, Raiders and Browns could all pick Wilson before us

The Raiders aren't going to draft a QB, and neither are the Browns. I'm confident in saying that. This is a deep defensive draft, and both of those teams need defensive players. Brandon Weeden in particular has been okay for a rookie, and I think he'll convince the new management team and coaching staff to let him have a chance to impress them.

Wilson is arguably the 3rd best quarterback in this draft class. The Bills have to have a worse record than us to get ahead of us, because they beat us head-to-head, and they'll likely have an easier schedule.

I expect that the Chiefs and Jags will draft QBs, and the other teams will go with defensive players.

The Bills would be pretty dumb to dump Fitzpatrick after this year, even if they do finish poorly. He's completing 61.7% of his passes, 15 TDs, 9 INTs. Buffalo's 3-5 right now, but they had a pretty brutal early schedule. They go to New England next week, and they'll probably lose. But they still have home-and-home against Miami, a road game in New England, and then they have 4 of 5 games at home to end the year, including juggernauts, Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, and the Jets.

I expect that Buffalo will have a better record than us at the end of the season.

 

[Assface]

Chopper, you can add me to your Tyler Wilson bandwagon list.

 

[Chopper0080]

I've seen enough to say that he's part of the solution, not part of the problem, on the OL. Is he great? No. Should he be the best player on your OL? Definitely not. Is he the best guy on our OL right now?

Without question. Replace the horrible parts on your OL before your worry about the parts that are merely bad. Chopper and I disagree on the quality of Daryn Colledge, but I think we can both agree that Brown played better when there was an adequate LG next to him. Colledge, Snyder, Sendlein, and Batiste need to be upgraded/replaced/developed before throwing Levi Brown on the scrap heap.

The time to be disappointed in Levi Brown's draft status is over. Now it's time to look at him for what he is. A decent starting LT making $7 million a year.

Yeah, in 2013 we should have at least two good starting OTs coing out of the group of Levi Brown, Nate Potter and Bobby Massie.

Our interior is a little shakier, but add a rookie, with Daryn Colledge, Adam Snyder, Lyle Sendlein and a hopefully developed Senio Kelemente and it gets better. Ideally, Colledge should be 2nd best OG and Snyder should be a swing player in 2013 if we to have an improved unit.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's time for this zombie suggestion to get an arrow in the head.

Yeah, better get more arrows.

Cause some of us more hard headed zombies are going to keep barking up that tree. With much respect to your knowledge, I think it is quite apparent that none of us have a clue when it comes to offensive linemen, so because it was labeled a "crazy idea" is no reason to deem it fact.

If Nate Potter is never going to be as good as Levi Brown, then we better cut Potter, trade Brown, and find a new LT. Cause Bobby Massie would then be better then both, and since Levi Brown can't play guard, what is he worth ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The time to be disappointed in Levi Brown's draft status is over. Now it's time to look at him for what he is. A decent starting LT making $7 million a year.

If he is decent why does he play so bad, so consistently?

I am not going off on a crazy situation here either. He is regarded as a horrible LT, and I have a huge majority of analysis, fans, football guys, coaches, etc., etc., backing me up on that statement.

Levi Brown is a legit LT.

Since when ?

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here K9. If the Cardinals put Levi Brown at LT again, then this madness starts all over again. This zombie opinion that Levi Brown, because of 8 games he played "well" and I guess the loss of memory on how poorly he has played in the past, is all of a sudden not the worst rated LT in the last 3 to 4 years of football, needs its own arrow in the head. Dare I say, you have been comprised my Darren Urban! j/k.

I love how Levi Brown is this awesome run blocker that can't play guard cause he is too slow, yet he is quick and nimble enough to play LT ?

This zombie is thinking that Levi Brown could solidify the interior line, and along with Massie on the right side could actually, , provide a push on the line is going to stay strong regardless of good writing and funny quips. PLENTY of drafted, never played OG, offensive tackles that went on to play guard, and well. It is not lunacy to say so.

Yet, it doesn't matter. The easy way for the Cardinals to go, is to enter next year with:

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Daryn Colledge
OC: Lyle Sendlein
RG: Adam Snyder
RT: Bobby Massie

and you know what ? That is what they are going to do, and that line is going to suck. And all the Tyler Wilson's and great weapons in the world are not going to cover it up. How do I know? I have seen that show before, and it sucked.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

The Raiders aren't going to draft a QB, and neither are the Browns. I'm confident in saying that. This is a deep defensive draft, and both of those teams need defensive players. Brandon Weeden in particular has been okay for a rookie, and I think he'll convince the new management team and coaching staff to let him have a chance to impress them.

Wilson is arguably the 3rd best quarterback in this draft class. The Bills have to have a worse record than us to get ahead of us, because they beat us head-to-head, and they'll likely have an easier schedule.

I expect that the Chiefs and Jags will draft QBs, and the other teams will go with defensive players.

The Bills would be pretty dumb to dump Fitzpatrick after this year, even if they do finish poorly. He's completing 61.7% of his passes, 15 TDs, 9 INTs. Buffalo's 3-5 right now, but they had a pretty brutal early schedule. They go to New England next week, and they'll probably lose. But they still have home-and-home against Miami, a road game in New England, and then they have 4 of 5 games at home to end the year, including juggernauts, Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, and the Jets.

I expect that Buffalo will have a better record than us at the end of the season.

Yeah but Jerry Jones may fall in love with him and Tannebum ( Jets gm

may want to make a splash

 

[kerouac9]

If he is decent why does he play so bad, so consistently?

I am not going off on a crazy situation here either. He is regarded as a horrible LT, and I have a huge majority of analysis, fans, football guys, coaches, etc., etc., backing me up on that statement.

Because there aren't many good LTs out there these days. Part of that is that LT is a very difficult position to play in the NFL; part of it is that spread offenses in college don't require elite LTs to go to the NFL.

Levi Brown is among the many, many players that make up the third tier of starting left tackles in the NFL right now. The first tier is Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and Branden Albert. The second tier is guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Michael Oher, Jeff Backus, Sam Baker, and Joe Staley.

The third tier is kind of everyone else. Is Levi Brown worse than Jared Veldheer (OAK)? Than Nate Solder (NE)? Marshall Newhouse (GB)? William Beatty? I don't know that he's better than all of the, but he's at least better than some of them.

Fans don't know ***** from shinola when it comes to offensive line play. They're more than happy to blame their offensive line when the offense struggles, because in all likelihood, one of those five guys lost the battle on a broken play. I could really care less about PFF's analysis when it comes to OL play. I think that the D'Anthony Batiste Era has shown that you can do much worse than Levi Brown as a starting tackle.

You don't get better by casting off your best tools on the unit, even if those tools are lackluster. Get rid of the real problems, and if Levi is still a liability, then do something about him.

 

[WildBB]

I've seen enough to say that he's part of the solution, not part of the problem, on the OL. Is he great? No. Should he be the best player on your OL? Definitely not. Is he the best guy on our OL right now?

Without question. Replace the horrible parts on your OL before your worry about the parts that are merely bad. Chopper and I disagree on the quality of Daryn Colledge, but I think we can both agree that Brown played better when there was an adequate LG next to him. Colledge, Snyder, Sendlein, and Batiste need to be upgraded/replaced/developed before throwing Levi Brown on the scrap heap.

The time to be disappointed in Levi Brown's draft status is over. Now it's time to look at him for what he is. A decent starting LT making $7 million a year.

He COULD be a decent RT or RG, imo. He's a below average LT. And your right the rest of the line MUST be upgraded. Your contention that Wilson can flourish behind a solid-ish line just doesn't ring true with the personel we have at present. We've all witnessed WAY too much of it since Warners departure. A rookie QB can't improve a line that much, especially if it can't even run block adequately! Let alone it's pass pro woes.

 

[Goldfield]

I've seen enough to say that he's part of the solution, not part of the problem, on the OL. Is he great? No. Should he be the best player on your OL? Definitely not. Is he the best guy on our OL right now?

Without question. Replace the horrible parts on your OL before your worry about the parts that are merely bad. Chopper and I disagree on the quality of Daryn Colledge, but I think we can both agree that Brown played better when there was an adequate LG next to him. Colledge, Snyder, Sendlein, and Batiste need to be upgraded/replaced/developed before throwing Levi Brown on the scrap heap.

The time to be disappointed in Levi Brown's draft status is over. Now it's time to look at him for what he is. A decent starting LT making $7 million a year.

This is exactly how I feel. You need to fix the problems before you replace the average players.

If Potter works out I would like to see Brown at RT, Kelemente at Guard, sign or draft the other guard. And roll with that.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Raiders aren't going to draft a QB, and neither are the Browns. I'm confident in saying that. This is a deep defensive draft, and both of those teams need defensive players. Brandon Weeden in particular has been okay for a rookie, and I think he'll convince the new management team and coaching staff to let him have a chance to impress them.

Wilson is arguably the 3rd best quarterback in this draft class. The Bills have to have a worse record than us to get ahead of us, because they beat us head-to-head, and they'll likely have an easier schedule.

I expect that the Chiefs and Jags will draft QBs, and the other teams will go with defensive players.

The Bills would be pretty dumb to dump Fitzpatrick after this year, even if they do finish poorly. He's completing 61.7% of his passes, 15 TDs, 9 INTs. Buffalo's 3-5 right now, but they had a pretty brutal early schedule. They go to New England next week, and they'll probably lose. But they still have home-and-home against Miami, a road game in New England, and then they have 4 of 5 games at home to end the year, including juggernauts, Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, and the Jets.

I expect that Buffalo will have a better record than us at the end of the season.

Why not the Raiders, too much money tied up in Palmer? He's not considered to be very popular with the fans I know that so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get a rookie QB.

I agree they need defense badly though.

Honestly if they were to somehow see Palmer retire again(some innuendo he's considered it) I wouldn't be surprised to see them pick a Qb. They also might be the team to go after Kolb if we cut him.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah but Jerry Jones may fall in love with him and Tannebum ( Jets gm

may want to make a splash

Maybe, but I doubt it. Dallas is going to have a better record than us; maybe they'll trade up into the Top 5 to get Tyler Wilson, but that would be a mistake when they have their own interior line problems and would be burning some prime years from Miles Austin.

He COULD be a decent RT or RG, imo. He's a below average LT. And your right the rest of the line MUST be upgraded. Your contention that Wilson can flourish behind a solid-ish line just doesn't ring true with the personel we have at present. We've all witnessed WAY too much of it since Warners departure. A rookie QB can't improve a line that much, especially if it can't even run block adequately! Let alone it's pass pro woes.

He's an average LT. There are easily 10-15 just as adequate starting offensive tackles around the NFL today. We don't have an average LT on the active roster right now. Massie is already a huge upgrade from Brandon Keith last season, and he should get better in his second year. Snyder healthy should be an upgrade from injured Snyder we've seen all year, and definitely over Ohrnberger yesterday.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Because there aren't many good LTs out there these days. Part of that is that LT is a very difficult position to play in the NFL; part of it is that spread offenses in college don't require elite LTs to go to the NFL.

You stink.

You know, there was really only one acceptable answer, that I actually believe in, and you just frickin' nailed it.

You couldn't just let me sit here in my happy little ZOMBIE place, imagining Levi Brown road grading holes on the interior line, no. You had to go right for the throat, didn't you.


Ugh.

So, I was right when talking to my wife about football. The Cardinals, by maintaining the status quo on our team, and more specifically our offensive line have been able to improve the offensive line, by way of the talent league wide going down the pooper, and them staying put with what they have.

Correct ? What a craptastic way to get better. Yet, as I as said, I do agree with it.

Unreal, and let me be clear, my amazement is in the talent vacuum that has become the OT position.

...............................FINE! ......stupid K9 with his stupid points that make sense.

 

[WildBB]

Maybe, but I doubt it. Dallas is going to have a better record than us; maybe they'll trade up into the Top 5 to get Tyler Wilson, but that would be a mistake when they have their own interior line problems and would be burning some prime years from Miles Austin.



He's an average LT. There are easily 10-15 just as adequate starting offensive tackles around the NFL today. We don't have an average LT on the active roster right now. Massie is already a huge upgrade from Brandon Keith last season, and he should get better in his second year. Snyder healthy should be an upgrade from injured Snyder we've seen all year, and definitely over Ohrnberger yesterday.

I can wish too. I'd rather see legit upgrades all around. Also beyond the field! Massie is up and down so far, but there's hope there.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This is exactly how I feel. You need to fix the problems before you replace the average players.

If Potter works out I would like to see Brown at RT, Kelemente at Guard, sign or draft the other guard. And roll with that.

What do you do with Massie ? I guess he goes to back up? Yeah....guess so.

To bad, Massie is playing his arse of for this team right now. Stuck next to Ornberger and Adam Snyder all season, ugh.

At least we all seem to agree that we need a flippin' guard. Kelemete or someone to move people.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

KC is looking like the #1 pick and they'll take Geno. It's hard to say what Buffalo will do. I hope they pick before the Cards and make the mistake of drafting Barkley. That way he can't even be in the conversation for the Cards. The only QB I can see Cleveland taking would be Geno Smith. They may want to make a splash and if Smith can't be had then they'll go with Wheeden.

I still think the guy to watch for the Cards QB-wise is Tyler Bray. By no means do I think he's a better QB than Wilson but look at the guys Whiz has drafted as his QB's and Bray fits the mold. Skelton and Lindley are both big guys with strong arms and decision making/accuracy issues. Scud was a big guy with a strong arm and Whiz brought him in as well.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

There are easily 10-15 just as adequate starting offensive tackles around the NFL today.

Name them.

Not as a challenge, cause I couldn't do it off the top of my head, but just to know. I think you are right btw as well, but it would be fun and help the point about Levi Brown.

 

[WildBB]

What do you do with Massie ? I guess he goes to back up? Yeah....guess so.

To bad, Massie is playing his arse of for this team right now. Stuck next to Ornberger and Adam Snyder all season, ugh.

At least we all seem to agree that we need a flippin' guard. Kelemete or someone to move people.

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTLY!

 

[kerouac9]

What do you do with Massie ? I guess he goes to back up? Yeah....guess so.

To bad, Massie is playing his arse of for this team right now. Stuck next to Ornberger and Adam Snyder all season, ugh.

At least we all seem to agree that we need a flippin' guard. Kelemete or someone to move people.

I'll expect that we'll see Massie and Levi as the starters, because Potter has been working at RT & LT this offseason. He's got to get bigger if he's going to work in this system. I don't mind moving Massie down, but he doesn't have the positional flexibility that Potter presents.

We do need to add a guard, or a center with a legitimate chance of competing for the starting job, or an above-average swing OG/OC. Grimm's offensive lines had one outstanding player, and that was the left guard. The problem with our offensive lines isn't that they've had four or five bad players; it's that they've lacked one outstanding player to take the pressure off the system. If we can get a good second-round guard or Kelemete can develop into something special, we'll be a very solid unit.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why not the Raiders, too much money tied up in Palmer? He's not considered to be very popular with the fans I know that so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get a rookie QB.

I agree they need defense badly though.

Honestly if they were to somehow see Palmer retire again(some innuendo he's considered it) I wouldn't be surprised to see them pick a Qb. They also might be the team to go after Kolb if we cut him.

With the Raiders I believe it is a perfect storm of medicore QB talent in the draft, servicable QB talent on the team (Palmer), and a bunch of really good defensive talent that fills needs.

 

[Chopper0080]

Name them.

Not as a challenge, cause I couldn't do it off the top of my head, but just to know. I think you are right btw as well, but it would be fun and help the point about Levi Brown.

You want 10-15 OTs in starting in the NFL that are around as good as Levi Brown? I might be willing to do some research on this.

 

[Goldfield]

What do you do with Massie ? I guess he goes to back up? Yeah....guess so.

To bad, Massie is playing his arse of for this team right now. Stuck next to Ornberger and Adam Snyder all season, ugh.

At least we all seem to agree that we need a flippin' guard. Kelemete or someone to move people.

Yea if Potter can play LT I think Brown is a good RT. So we have Massie as an experienced back up. That's much better than what we have had in the past.

I think both guards need to be upgraded. Hopefully Kelemente can be one of them. We need a freaking run game if we ever want to help the passing game, and let the D get some rest.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

KC is looking like the #1 pick and they'll take Geno. It's hard to say what Buffalo will do. I hope they pick before the Cards and make the mistake of drafting Barkley. That way he can't even be in the conversation for the Cards. The only QB I can see Cleveland taking would be Geno Smith. They may want to make a splash and if Smith can't be had then they'll go with Wheeden.

I still think the guy to watch for the Cards QB-wise is Tyler Bray. By no means do I think he's a better QB than Wilson but look at the guys Whiz has drafted as his QB's and Bray fits the mold. Skelton and Lindley are both big guys with strong arms and decision making/accuracy issues. Scud was a big guy with a strong arm and Whiz brought him in as well.

Bray needs some food and I hear whispers he loves college and is

going back.

 

[kerouac9]

Name them.

Not as a challenge, cause I couldn't do it off the top of my head, but just to know. I think you are right btw as well, but it would be fun and help the point about Levi Brown.

I hate you for making me do this. There's really no good way to just look up starting OL in the NFL, so I have to go through every dumb roster in the NFL. But I'll do it because you caught Leinart in a hot tub with Fez.

I'm not ranking within the tiers. If the judgement was close, I tended to bump them up.

Tier 1:
Joe Thomas (CLE)
Jake Long (MIA)
Branden Albert (KC)

Tier 2:
D'Brickashaw Ferguson (NYJ)
Michael Oher (BAL)
Jeff Backus (DET)
Sam Baker (ATL)
Joe Staley (SF)
Duane Brown (HOU)
Jermon Bushrod (NO)
Jordan Gross (CAR)
Ryan Clady (DEN)
Michael Roos (TEN)
Russell Okung (SEA)

Tier 3:
Nate Solder (NE)
Levi Brown (ARI)
King Dunlap (PHI)
Trent Williams (WAS)
Tyron Smith (DAL)
Andrew Whitworth (CIN)
Anthony Castanzo (IND)
Eugene Monroe (JAC)
Donald Penn (TB)
Roger Saffold (STL)

Tier 4:
Marshall Newhouse (GB)
Jared Veldheer (OAK)
Ned Beatty (NYG)
Max Starks (PIT)
J'Marcus Webb (CHI)
Mike Harris/Jared Gaither (SD)

Unranked Because They're Rookies and We Just Don't Know Yet:
Ryan Kalil (MIN)
Cordy Glenn (BUF)

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You want 10-15 OTs in starting in the NFL that are around as good as Levi Brown? I might be willing to do some research on this.

Too late.

I hate you for making me do this.

There's really no good way to just look up starting OL in the NFL, so I have to go through every dumb roster in the NFL. But I'll do it because you caught Leinart in a hot tub with Fez.

Agreed on all points. Done it myself, once or twice at it does indeed suck eggs.

LOL. Fez.

I'm not ranking within the tiers. If the judgement was close, I tended to bump them up.

Bah.

When it comes to oline you have to give people a little slack. Tough thing for anyone (myself included) to gauge, IMO.

Nothing too crazy looking to me at least, but again it would be pure opinion if I were to change that list.

Awesome stuff tho, thanks! And again, the point made is the point made, there is vacuum at the OT position league wide. Get your expectations down, I guess. Is what it is.

 

[Duckjake]

I have to go through every dumb roster in the NFL.

That shouldn't take THAT long. www.profootball-reference.com lists the starters for every team in the NFL.

You said that Levi Brown played well when he had a good LG next to him? Are you saying Colledge is an adequate left guard?