Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[BirdGangThing]

Sounds like they're pushing Tune with this move.

I was thinking about this just last night

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right...maybe if you didn't laser focus on trying to tear down an argument, and instead looked at the nuance, you would see that I said Dobbs won but it was close. So what happens when a team offers an asset in that situation? You trade the more expensive veteran and take the draft pick.

Dobbs is on a one year deal and more expensive. Jeebus man, don't make refuting these points so easy. This is th exact same logic to a degree with the Beachum vs. Jones, with the only difference is that Beachum is older. Take the asset and be happy you got something for a player that won't be around too long and you can fill the spot with a cheaper player.

You just got done saying a 5th essentially wasn’t an asset. They got rid of him bc it was better strategically to go with the younger player with upside and cheaper contract. Just saying this thread has a lot of you arguing outta both sides of your mouth.

At the end of the day here’s the reality:

We got rid of two players who we all (almost all) thought had more value for peanuts.

We picked up a qb who will likely have no impact on the future of this franchise.

This feels like a lot of activity with virtually zero positive impact.

 

[QuebecCard]

Is he the #2 today? Case closed.

No, case pending; he's likely #1 in AZ until Tyler returns.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This post is fraught with hypocritical concepts. You keep touting dobbs being named 2nd string but then want to ignore the fact he was immediately traded for what you state here isn’t a “real asset.” In other words they thought so highly of him as a backup that they gave him away to go with the other guy. If this were the cards you 100% would be saying “why did they trade that bum away? Because they decided the rookie was the backup.”

Also I love how you are trying to tell me what I think. You don't know what I think.

I use evidence for my thinking, and here we know that Dobbs was named a back up in what was viewed as a close call and the third QB Minds was cut. From that piece of evidence we know that the Browns did in fact want Dobbs in that position.

DTR played pretty well, but he also would probably be a disaster in the short run starting in a real NFL game. So the Browns are faced with the issue of needing to keep Dobbs because of this issue, but also knowing that DTR long term has more upside.

This is all speculation based on how team's view roster management. I won't be surprised to see the Browns sign a veteran after cuts. Why did the Cardinals make the trade instead of just signing a veteran after cuts as well? They have real concern that McCoy isn't going to or can't play, and they can't wait a few weeks to find out.

Also if you look at the series of trades, they essentially conjured a 5th rounder by trading two players that don't have a long term future to get Dobbs. It basically became a draft capital neutral trade because they didn't dip into their trove of picks they had prior to the trades. You could point out that they lost players, but I think the Cardinals were probably considering cutting Simmons anywhere after he demonstrated what a disaster he would be as a safety, and Jones was the fourth tackle, a position that Wilkinson can fill as well. This also opens up a spot for a guy like Big Mo or Howerton to stick.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Sounds like they're pushing Tune with this move.

I think it means they don't want Tune playing in any meaningful games.

 

[football karma]

This feels like a lot of activity with virtually zero positive impact.

i think it all nets to an extra 5th rounder next year

some marginal cost this season, marginal positive impact long term

seems to be the theme of the 2023 season

 

[Krangodnzr]

You just got done saying a 5th essentially wasn’t an asset. They got rid of him bc it was better strategically to go with the younger player with upside and cheaper contract. Just saying this thread has a lot of you arguing outta both sides of your mouth.

At the end of the day here’s the reality:

We got rid of two players who we all (almost all) thought had more value for peanuts.

Thought doesn't equal reality. We acquired Carson freaking Palmer for a sixth.

We picked up a qb who will likely have no impact on the future of this franchise.

Who knows. It's a contingency move. If McCoy is done, then the Cardinals are most likely screwed relying on Tune because of his lack of experience.

This feels like a lot of activity with virtually zero positive impact.

Here's my biggest issue with the nattering nabobs of negativity: this is all fringe players and fringe assets and the usual crowd is making a massive deal over it. It's hilarious and annoying at the same time. It's a fifth round pick!!! The actual hit rate of a fifth round pick years later is miniscule.

Look at a draft four years ago and look at 1) how many fifth rounders became starters 2) how many are with the team that drafted them. It's like 5% of the fifth round draftees that meet that criteria, maybe even lower.

 

[Garthshort]

There is one thing I'm sure of:
I have no idea what will happen. And what happened last year with SF helped me reach that conclusion.

But, I can't wait to find out.

 

[kerouac9]

This is like arguing who’s going to get the last broken chips in the bottom of the bag.
There are unknown factors here that we will eventually learn. Fit, ability, attitude and aptitude are all a part of trading some of these guys and getting Dobbs.
I know it’s highly unlikely but I’d love to the Monday morning posts should Dobbs lead this team to a win going 18 or 24 with 2td’s and no picks. MO will be deemed a genius…. Until next week when Dobbs throws 3 picks in a blowout loss.
Bottom line, we don’t know a lot of what’s going on behind close doors yet.

If anyone cares about preseason performance they should be muted. It doesn’t matter.

There are two schools of thought on backup QBs. Philly calls them second QBs and places a lot of value on the position (or claims to). Doesn’t really seem like Cleveland does even after over performing with a second QB last year, underperforming with Watson, and the coaching staff likely fired if they don’t make the playoffs.

Based on that pressure, seems weird they’d dump their QB who knows the system, etc. He’s probably too bad to be a backup for the 2023 Cleveland Browns but good enough to start for the 2023 Arizona Cardinals.

Sad!

The Cardinal Way.

You can take the #birdcity out of the social media guide, but you can’t take the #birdcity out of the franchise.

Sounds like they're pushing Tune with this move.

Pushing Tune to third string? I agree!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Here in Columbus they have a radio host who’s as tapped in to the Browns as anyone.
They were ecstatic to get a 5th for Dobbs.
People are correct in that Stefanski named Dobbs.#2. But that was mainly for in gane short term relief. Dobbs, being a veteran could step in as an emergency.

However, if anything serious happened to Watson and he was out long term, DTR would become the starter.

Don’t get why anyone on here would be touting Dobbs as a good acquisition. If he had any upside he wouldn’t be on his 4th-5th team already.

Fwiw, he’s seen as a good teammate and hard worker. He’s just not so good at playing QB.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

You can take the #birdcity out of the social media guide, but you can’t take the #birdcity out of the franchise.

Ouch

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Doesn't every team, good and bad, have these situations?

On the most reductive level, I suppose that is true. I think the Cards are different than most teams, and that teams that are rebuilding can put more of a roster emphasis on boom or bust guys at the bottom on the roster. I don't think you can necessarily do that with contending teams as much.

We did exactly what you propose with LJ Collier, right?

That's one example, sure. More of that seems good, right?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Simmons playing now against Jets. On NFLN.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Wearing 46 and coming off the edge....Looks like he's shot out of a cannon on the pass rush.

 

[Solar7]

Simmons playing now against Jets. On NFLN.

And he was just crucial to putting pressure on Aaron Rodgers and breaking up a 3rd down situation. Ugh.

 

[BritCard]

If anyone cares about preseason performance they should be muted. It doesn’t matter.

There are two schools of thought on backup QBs. Philly calls them second QBs and places a lot of value on the position (or claims to). Doesn’t really seem like Cleveland does even after over performing with a second QB last year, underperforming with Watson, and the coaching staff likely fired if they don’t make the playoffs.

Based on that pressure, seems weird they’d dump their QB who knows the system, etc. He’s probably too bad to be a backup for the 2023 Cleveland Browns but good enough to start for the 2023 Arizona Cardinals.

Sad!



You can take the #birdcity out of the social media guide, but you can’t take the #birdcity out of the franchise.


Pushing Tune to third string? I agree!

Pure speculation built on your own personal opinion of the org.

It's a myth you created that Stefanski's job is on the line. He's 41 years old and 26-24. 10 of which he had to play with Brissett at QB and most of the rest with Mayfield.

His worse season is 7-10 with Watson suspended for 10 games and the loss of the draft capital they gave up.

Stefanski's job is not on the line. So it's not at all weird they might take a 5th for a guy on a 1 year deal.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Pure speculation built on your own personal opinion of the org.

It's a myth you created that Stefanski's job is on the line. He's 41 years old and 26-24. 10 of which he had to play with Brissett at QB and most of the rest with Mayfield.

His worse season is 7-10 with Watson suspended for 10 games and the loss of the draft capital they gave up.

Stefanski's job is not on the line. So it's not at all weird they might take a 5th for a guy on a 1 year deal.

If Stefanski doesn’t get to the playoffs, he’s gone. He may even have to win a game.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[Stout]

You just got done saying a 5th essentially wasn’t an asset. They got rid of him bc it was better strategically to go with the younger player with upside and cheaper contract. Just saying this thread has a lot of you arguing outta both sides of your mouth.

At the end of the day here’s the reality:

We got rid of two players who we all (almost all) thought had more value for peanuts.

We picked up a qb who will likely have no impact on the future of this franchise.

This feels like a lot of activity with virtually zero positive impact.

Let's just say that if we still had Steve Keim everyone would be roasting him for these moves.

 

[BritCard]

If Stefanski doesn’t get to the playoffs, he’s gone. He may even have to win a game.

Even if that was the case, you really think that HE thinks that Dobb's is the difference?

If they lose Watson they aren't making the playoffs or winning a game either way. Whether it's DTR or Dobbs at QB.

If they don't make the playoffs with Watson then yeah, his job might be on the line. But if Watson is out and Dobbs is in? Nah. So why would he be concerned about holding on to Dobbs?

Plus, since when did Stefanski make these decisions? All the vitriol here is aimed at Monti for making the moves. It was Berry that made this trade, not Stefanski.

 

[schutd]

On the most reductive level, I suppose that is true. I think the Cards are different than most teams, and that teams that are rebuilding can put more of a roster emphasis on boom or bust guys at the bottom on the roster. I don't think you can necessarily do that with contending teams as much.


That's one example, sure. More of that seems good, right?

Absolutely. My point is, all teams have a guy that becomes that type of acquisition for another team. Simmons was never going to be anything here, be it due to coaching/management malfeasance, or simply the player not being good enough.

So, Im not faulting the Cardinals for losing him, thats part of the process. I fault them for drafting him in the first place. And I dont fault them for not going after that type of player. They did, and do, a la my example of LJ Collier.

Yes, Id like to see more of that, but that doesnt mean we wont be jettisoning our version of that guy as well.

 

[DVontel]

Let's just say that if we still had Steve Keim everyone would be roasting him for these moves.

Steve Keim would have continued to put bandaids on torn ACLs aka swimming in purgatory instead of finally having the balls to actually do a full blown rebuild.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Steve Keim would have continued to put bandaids on torn ACLs aka swimming in purgatory instead of finally having the balls to actually do a full blown rebuild.

Keim would have drafted another ILB this year, thinking Simmons was going to be awesome at safety.

 

[Stout]

Steve Keim would have continued to put bandaids on torn ACLs aka swimming in purgatory instead of finally having the balls to actually do a full blown rebuild.

Not what I was referencing, and not a defense of Keim. Simply put, the whole board would be in an uproar over some of these moves were the name of the GM different. Lots of benefit of the doubt being given to Monti on some bumbling.

Let's see if Monti can follow up with the build part of this tear down/rebuild.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Except the “new regime” paid him a couple of million dollars a couple of weeks ago and then, in essence, TRADED him away for nothing.
Not arguing that Simmons isn’t sub par, just that the “new regime” didn’t do much better than the old.
But, in the long term it doesn’t matter, Simmons is gonzo either way. Time will tell if this scorched earth plan works.

What choice did they have but pay the bonus? First round rookie contracts are guaranteed. So if they cut him before the bonus was due or after they were paying him either way. I would guess no one was offering even a 7th and willing to pay that bonus. So cards paid it and got out of paying him the rest of the contract which I believe was another mil or so