Sporting News

[john h]

The Cards and Bidwill in particular really got scolded in todays issue of the Sporting News. It discussed how Bidwill strutures contracts that will not conform to what other teams do in the way bonuses are structured and other such things. It states pretty much as long as he is hanling the contracts we will always be the "Cardinals". All pretty much as we often discuss. I wonder if articles effect him one way or the other. I wonder if he even reads the Sporting News?

 

[Skkorpion]

Nothing new there, John. Get used to it. Rod Graves said the week he took over that Bidwill will not bend on contracts.

Seems to me agents would get it by now. Many in the NFL are predicting a record number of holdouts this year as many owners imitate Bidwill and refuse to give two-tiered signing bonuses.

Last year, both Minnesota and the Cards held the line and beat the agents. This year, my guess is 5 yeams will beat the agents.

 

[pinnacle]

I was wondering if the 4 free agents we just signed had "market" contract structures.. I assume they do. The only guy we really bid on aggressively that we lost was colvin (I do not count Kordell - we found a better option and pulled the offer)..and we were giving colvin a way better offer from what I understand.. I think this is kind of last years news (except maybe in the case of plummer and boston - who we did not really want back). The article is probably correct from a historical perspective, but I do not think it applies to our current free agent offers.. Exception is rookie contracts..he could still be right on this one..

 

[pinnacle]

I heard on the radio today that baseball has really buckled down on big contracts (i.e.. they hit a peak a few years ago and players are not getting smaller offers). Baseball is in a much worse financial situation than football and it had to be done..but I would suspect that a few years down the road we may see a comparable situation in football - especially if the economy doe not pick up. These media companies (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox) mostly have parent companies that are not doing the greatest -and it all starts with them and the advertisers that pay them.. If the networks are not able to offer the NFL these outrageous contracts...the overall financial condition of the NFL will deteriorate...but that is probably a few years away..

 

[Skkorpion]

Look at the mess Dan Snyder is in:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6251729

Now that is stupid management.

 

[DieHardFromMO]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Nothing new there, John. Get used to it. Rod Graves said the week he took over that Bidwill will not bend on contracts.

Seems to me agents would get it by now. Many in the NFL are predicting a record number of holdouts this year as many owners imitate Bidwill and refuse to give two-tiered signing bonuses.

Last year, both Minnesota and the Cards held the line and beat the agents. This year, my guess is 5 yeams will beat the agents.

Neither Bryant McKinnie of the Vikings or Wendell Bryant of the Cardinals were available for training camp last year and McKinnie missed virtually half the season. Wendell Bryant was a non-factor last season for the Cardinals due to his lack of camp experience(At least lets hope that it was just lack of training camp experience).

The CARDS and VIKINGS by no means come out winners by having their #1 picks holding out all summer and not being prepared to contribute in a meaningful fashion during the season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

amen diehard, amen. might as well view those contracts as havinhg been for the same amount of money for one less year each 'cuz neither contributed in a meaningful manner for a full year.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Nothing new there, John. Get used to it. Rod Graves said the week he took over that Bidwill will not bend on contracts.

Seems to me agents would get it by now. Many in the NFL are predicting a record number of holdouts this year as many owners imitate Bidwill and refuse to give two-tiered signing bonuses.

Last year, both Minnesota and the Cards held the line and beat the agents. This year, my guess is 5 yeams will beat the agents.

Skorp: I had seen so many post here that we were changing the way we do business with Graves now in charge but apparently the big things like contracts are still very much business as usual. I would no be at all surprised if Bidwill is the ultimate decison maker with Smith even if the coaches do not want Emmitt. Apparently the Bidwills think he will put people in the seat which will override any other considerations. I have no problem with Emmitt and it could be a good move but we could be back to non football people making a player decision which I thought was now in Graves hands.

 

[Jasper]

I think Arizona's contarcts are the best in the business.

They are straight forward, no nonsense cap friendly.
Cap friendly meaning you pay what you sign for.

The deals are straight forward, with salary and signing bonuses split out evenly through out the length of the deal.
It is as fair as it gets. No salvaging the future, no incentives and roster bonuses. No upfront money. Salaries are earned by playing, not by reputation alone.

It is fair to the players and fair to the organizations.

Look at our cap? The best so far in the league.

Look what happened with Wadsworth, R. Moore, E. Swann, J. Plummer? Dead money.

What if anyone of you were the one signing the check from your own bank account. Would you have given 10million straight up for a player regardless if he plays or not?

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by Jasper
I think Arizona's contarcts are the best in the business.

They are straight forward, no nonsense cap friendly.
Cap friendly meaning you pay what you sign for.

The deals are straight forward, with salary and signing bonuses split out evenly through out the length of the deal.
It is as fair as it gets. No salvaging the future, no incentives and roster bonuses. No upfront money. Salaries are earned by playing, not by reputation alone.

It is fair to the players and fair to the organizations.

Look at our cap? The best so far in the league.

Look what happened with Wadsworth, R. Moore, E. Swann, J. Plummer? Dead money.

What if anyone of you were the one signing the check from your own bank account. Would you have given 10million straight up for a player regardless if he plays or not?

If the Cards and Bidwill had any kind of success with this contract strategy then I would consider agreeing with you. They don't and never have. It's one thing to have a pretty cap figure and another to have won some games and god forbid more than one playoff game in over 50 years. I'm not advocating they behave like Snyder because he is also an idiot, but how about something in the middle.

The Cards have one of the weakest offseason training turn outs in the league in what is one of the most attractive markets to live in. Why, because Bidwill does not put workout incentives in the contracts. Maybe this is why the Cards are decimated by injuries every year. Maybe this is why the team is almost never a playoff contender.

As Diehard stated, holding the line on these contract hurt not only the players but the teams as well. 1st rounders typically contribute in their first year, for the Cards Bryant may have been on the field in the 2nd half of the season but I wouldn't say he contributed much.

I will acknowledge that the Cards are smart in how they do structure contracts so that the last season(s) cap figure is not so huge the team is forced to cut players and eat dead cap space, but as I stated there has to be a happy medium. I think this is where RG is having an impact on Bidwill. The signings of Shipp, McKinnon and Wakefield have RG's fingerprints all over them. This is not a Bidwill philosophy and it's good to see the Cards at least peak out of the Cave in an attempt to leave the stone age.

 

[RedStorm]

I post earlier this question...

"What would it take for you to have faith in the Cards (Graves/Front Office)"

This is what I put...

1) Sign Colvin - Gone..But we made a good faith effort so I do not hold it against them
2) Sign Jackson - Done
3) Sign Holliday/Okeafor - Still out there....But looks like little hope..
4) Get a Vet QB- Blake...Very good. Upgraded us at QB...according to the responses to our scientific, professional AZSPORTSFAN Poll.. (LOL)
5) Draft Well
6) No hold outs period. No more non-slotted insurance, no more
'we don't give workout bonuses', etc. - I am skeptical here because Graves has been the chief contract negotiator and we have had hold outs. Why? From what I have read and heard it is because Bidwill must give his final approval. I don't think Graves would be in his postion if he had not earned Bidwill's trust and go against his contract philosophy. So, I am very guarded on this point.

The signings of the last week upgraded us in key areas. We are better at QB, FB and S. We add a possible C, some ST help and some depth on the OL. However, my faith cup is not even half way filled yet. The signings of the last week have bought Graves some time from me (like it really matters...I know). I will wait to see what he does between now and camp. But I tell you this.....a poor draft and having hold outs will erase what has been done so far because, in my mind, it will mean that things have not fundamentaly changed. That it is business as usual.

I hope I am wrong. I really want to believe that things have changed. That things will turn around. But until we see the contracts negoitated with our draft choices, participation at camps, Howdy Doody will remain alive and well.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by RedStorm
I post earlier this question...

"What would it take for you to have faith in the Cards (Graves/Front Office)"

This is what I put...

1) Sign Colvin - Gone..But we made a good faith effort so I do not hold it against them
2) Sign Jackson - Done
3) Sign Holliday/Okeafor - Still out there....But looks like little hope..
4) Get a Vet QB- Blake...Very good. Upgraded us at QB...according to the responses to our scientific, professional AZSPORTSFAN Poll.. (LOL)
5) Draft Well
6) No hold outs period. No more non-slotted insurance, no more
'we don't give workout bonuses', etc. - I am skeptical here because Graves has been the chief contract negotiator and we have had hold outs. Why? From what I have read and heard it is because Bidwill must give his final approval. I don't think Graves would be in his postion if he had not earned Bidwill's trust and go against his contract philosophy. So, I am very guarded on this point.

The signings of the last week upgraded us in key areas. We are better at QB, FB and S. We add a possible C, some ST help and some depth on the OL. However, my faith cup is not even half way filled yet. The signings of the last week have bought Graves some time from me (like it really matters...I know). I will wait to see what he does between now and camp. But I tell you this.....a poor draft and having hold outs will erase what has been done so far because, in my mind, it will mean that things have not fundamentaly changed. That it is business as usual.

I hope I am wrong. I really want to believe that things have changed. That things will turn around. But until we see the contracts negoitated with our draft choices, participation at camps, Howdy Doody will remain alive and well.

Bottom line for me is to be in the hunt in late september. do not car how just be there.