Star Wars questions

[CaptTurbo]

Ok a few things I need cleared up BIM.

1) In return of the jedi when Darth Vader dies he is back on the "good side" and his vision is seen with yoda and obi. How can you slaughter dozens of kids and through 1 act redeem yourself? We wouldnt accept it in todays world.

2) If Darth Vader was so much a superior jedi compared to everyone else why is it that kanobi keeps kicking his butt? He won the duel in the 3rd movie and was pretty much handeling Vader in the 4th movie until he decided to let Vader kill him. What gives? Seems like the emporer should have targeted kanobi as he had superior powers.

ok thats it for the moment I have more but will try to remember them later.

 

[sundevilscott]

Ok a few things I need cleared up BIM.

1) In return of the jedi when Darth Vader dies he is back on the "good side" and his vision is seen with yoda and obi. How can you slaughter dozens of kids and through 1 act redeem yourself? We wouldnt accept it in todays world.

2) If Darth Vader was so much a superior jedi compared to everyone else why is it that kanobi keeps kicking his butt? He won the duel in the 3rd movie and was pretty much handeling Vader in the 4th movie until he decided to let Vader kill him. What gives? Seems like the emporer should have targeted kanobi as he had superior powers.

ok thats it for the moment I have more but will try to remember them later.

I have wondered about the first one myself. I think that he still was the chosen one as he did infact end the Emperor. He just took a long bad route to get there.

On the second point by the time you see him in Episode 4 he had been doing it for 20 years so he was much stronger by that time.

 

[Jersey Girl]

2) If Darth Vader was so much a superior jedi compared to everyone else why is it that kanobi keeps kicking his butt? He won the duel in the 3rd movie and was pretty much handeling Vader in the 4th movie until he decided to let Vader kill him. What gives? Seems like the emporer should have targeted kanobi as he had superior powers.

Obi-wan didn't let his emotions get the best of him, thus his mind was stronger. The emperior wouldn't have been able to turn him to the dark side.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Obi-wan didn't let his emotions get the best of him, thus his mind was stronger. The emperior wouldn't have been able to turn him to the dark side.

This is a good point, except in the 4th movie (the 1st really) when obi-wan and darth vader fought as luke watched vader was under control of his emotions and was still getting handled.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Ok a few things I need cleared up BIM.

1) In return of the jedi when Darth Vader dies he is back on the "good side" and his vision is seen with yoda and obi. How can you slaughter dozens of kids and through 1 act redeem yourself? We wouldnt accept it in todays world.

2) If Darth Vader was so much a superior jedi compared to everyone else why is it that kanobi keeps kicking his butt? He won the duel in the 3rd movie and was pretty much handeling Vader in the 4th movie until he decided to let Vader kill him. What gives? Seems like the emporer should have targeted kanobi as he had superior powers.

ok thats it for the moment I have more but will try to remember them later.

First question- I agree but some part of me seems to think that Darth Sideous had a lot of control of Anakin purely because of Anakin's fear of loosing Padmei (SP??). Also when Mace Windu decides to dust Palpatine off I was under the impression Palpatine was using the force to get Master Windu to want to kill him. Which help justify Anakins reason to interfer and push him that much further to the Dark side.

Second question- I will have to watch episode IV again but I would have to say that Obi Wan was not his superior in that battle. Obi could hold his own but it was inevitable that he would loose the fight. Which is why he choose to die the way he did.

In episode III I think again Anakin was the better physical fighter but not as an experienced fighter as Obi Wan (I thought the fight between Obi Wan and General Grievious was excellent!!) which worked out to Obi Wan's advantage. Also I believe Obi Wan new Anakin was a better fighter and fed him the 'higher ground' line just to get Ani to make the move he made. Which cost him the rest of his limbs.

My 2 cents

 

[CaptTurbo]

First question- I agree but some part of me seems to think that Darth Sideous had a lot of control of Anakin purely because of Anakin's fear of loosing Padmei (SP??). Also when Mace Windu decides to dust Palpatine off I was under the impression Palpatine was using the force to get Master Windu to want to kill him. Which help justify Anakins reason to interfer and push him that much further to the Dark side.

Second question- I will have to watch episode IV again but I would have to say that Obi Wan was not his superior in that battle. Obi could hold his own but it was inevitable that he would loose the fight. Which is why he choose to die the way he did.

In episode III I think again Anakin was the better physical fighter but not as an experienced fighter as Obi Wan (I thought the fight between Obi Wan and General Grievious was excellent!!) which worked out to Obi Wan's advantage. Also I believe Obi Wan new Anakin was a better fighter and fed him the 'higher ground' line just to get Ani to make the move he made. Which cost him the rest of his limbs.

My 2 cents

Sounds resonable. I need to see episode 4 again too. I thought obi was winning or stalemate at worst.

 

[abomb]

Good posts. I still need to see Ep 4 and finish up the Clone Wars cartoon series.

As for question 1, in the DVD release of ROTJ, the 40-50 year old Anakin image has been replaced with Hayden Christianson, so I think that the image of him appearing is the "before I really turned the corner and went truely evil" Anakin Skywalker. Almost as if Anakin/Vader are two distinctly different people.

A-Bomb

 

[abomb]

Alright, just saw the flick last night and I gotta say, Lucas should have digitally removed young Anakain from the final scene in ROTJ. Seriously.

A-Bomb

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Ok a few things I need cleared up BIM.

1) In Return of the Jedi when Darth Vader dies he is back on the "good side" and his vision is seen with Yoda and Obi-Wan. How can you slaughter dozens of kids and through 1 act redeem yourself? We wouldnt accept it in today's world.

That's exactly what happened. There was still good in Vader, namely Anakin was still in there, even after all the years of doing evil acts. Anakin could not take back all the bad things he had done, but he could save his son and end the Emperor's rule over the galaxy in one final act.

According to Lucas, in recent talks with the media - At the end of ``Episode VI - Return of the Jedi,'' Luke's good heart is so strong, he draws his father back to the side of right as Anakin renounces decades of depravity and dies with a loving gaze fixed on his son.

This has always been a clear character development issue to me. At the end of ROTJ, it HAS to be the older Anakin, not the younger. It has to show that, through it all, there was still good in Anakin, that he could take out the Emperor at his own expense to save the life of his own son...the selfless action of a Jedi who has returned from the dark side.

2) If Darth Vader was so much a superior jedi compared to everyone else why is it that Kenobi keeps kicking his butt? He won the duel in the 3rd movie and was pretty much handling Vader in the 4th movie until he decided to let Vader kill him. What gives? Seems like the emperor should have targeted Kenobi as he had superior powers.

On Dagobah, just after Yoda dies, Obi-Wan reveals himself to Luke in spirit form. He told Luke the truth about how Vader was once Anakin Skywalker. His failure to train him properly made Anakin susceptible to the Dark Side of the Force to which he finally turned to.

It's like Jersey Girl said, Obi-Wan had received proper Jedi training and the Emperor would not have been able to turn him. Anakin, on the other hand, was still a younger more emotional target. Heck, you saw what he did to the Tusken Raiders (men, women, and children...) when they caused his mother's death.

On the Death Star, I think Obi-Wan knew that he ultimately could not defeat Vader one-on-one, but if he allowed Vader to strike him down, he could guide Luke through the Force and help him in the future.

ok thats it for the moment I have more but will try to remember them later.

 

[Chaz]

Good questions but a couple of things.

If the appearance of Anakin at the end or ROTJ should be the old guy like in the original then how would he have legs to stand on?

If Obi-Wan and Yoda went through training to learn how to live on through the force after their death then when did Anakin receive this training to appear at the end of ROTJ?

 

[Jersey Girl]

If the appearance of Anakin at the end or ROTJ should be the old guy like in the original then how would he have legs to stand on?

If Obi-Wan and Yoda went through training to learn how to live on through the force after their death then when did Anakin receive this training to appear at the end of ROTJ?

These are good questions. I'm not sure about number one, but with number two I would guess that the Emperior taught Anakin that. He did tell Anakin that he would teach him everything he knew. Maybe he knew that as well?

 

[Chaz]

These are good questions. I'm not sure about number one, but with number two I would guess that the Emperior taught Anakin that. He did tell Anakin that he would teach him everything he knew. Maybe he knew that as well?

I doubt the Emperor knew how to do this. Apparently Yoda didn't know until after Qui-Gon died and showed up to tell him about it in Ep 2.

I also doubt the Emperor taught Vader everything he promised or knew. For a Sith Lord once you pass on all the knowledge you have you are typically destroyed by your apprentice that wants to become the master. In ROTJ Sidious didn't look ready to move on yet. I think Sidious was more and more suspicious of Darth Vader and kept him at arms length.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If the appearance of Anakin at the end or ROTJ should be the old guy like in the original then how would he have legs to stand on?

It's along the lines of heaven. Everything being restored.

If Obi-Wan and Yoda went through training to learn how to live on through the force after their death then when did Anakin receive this training to appear at the end of ROTJ?

Many theories.

1) He is the chosen one, one with the force, he needed no training.

2) The spirits of Yoda and Obi-Wan assisted him (not shown). Somewhere I read that there was a script for ROTJ that had the spirits of Yoda and Obi-Wan holding back the Emperor during the final fight scenes.

3) Anakin gave himself over completely to the Force, especially by his final act of compassion and selflessness.

4) Maybe an acceptance of your own death is key. Qui-Gon meditated just before he was killed by Maul, Yoda was old and knew he was going to die, Obi-Wan allowed Vader to strike him down (and disappeared much to Vader's surprise), and Anakin gave his own life to end the Emperor's and save his son.

I haven't heard the ROTJ commentary by Lucas, but from word of mouth - Lucas explained that the spirits of Yoda and Obi-Wan were able to snatch up Anakin's spirit and assist him...

 

[Chaz]

I haven't heard the ROTJ commentary by Lucas, but from word of mouth - Lucas explained that the spirits of Yoda and Obi-Wan were able to snatch up Anakin's spirit and assist him...

Ok so maybe he did learn in the ten minutes it took from the time he destroyed the Emperor and when he died in the hangar.

 

[UncleChris]

I had no problem with the young Anakin at the end of ROTJ. For one, since an older, unburned/uninjured Anakin/Vader never existed, it seems spurious to create a look for him. I felt like a young, untarnished look for Anakin was just fine (although inconsistent, 'cause Obi Wan was old.....).

Remember, the news is on at 5, 6, and 10 pm.....

 

[Stout]

I had no problem with the young Anakin at the end of ROTJ. For one, since an older, unburned/uninjured Anakin/Vader never existed, it seems spurious to create a look for him. I felt like a young, untarnished look for Anakin was just fine (although inconsistent, 'cause Obi Wan was old.....).

Remember, the news is on at 5, 6, and 10 pm.....

Boo. I found it insulting and an outrage, not to mention the choice words I flung at the TV.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Here's my opinion on Anakin's appearance at the end of ROTJ:

It has to be the older Anakin (the late Sebastian Shaw).

Why? Because the younger Anakin was never truly a Jedi, IMHO. He was a Jedi-in-training who was turned to the dark side.

Only the redeemed Anakin who acted selflessly and destroyed the Emperor was a Jedi.

If you show the younger Anakin, you're showing the brash emotional young man who massacred the Sand People at the camp where his mother died.

Anakin redeemed himself in the final moments of his life. To show a younger Anakin tosses the redemption out the window.

 

[Renz]

I hated the end of ROTJ. Seeing Obi-Wan, Vader and Yogurt smiling and laughing from the after-world was just goofy. I wonder how the people from places like Alderan (sp?) felt about Anakin/Vader? I kind of doubt they would have been so forgiving.

Personally, I would have had more respect for Vader if he had stayed evil until the bitter end. It would be like Hitler saving FDR's life at the end of World War II and then all being forgiven. Doesn't fly in my book.

 

[CaptTurbo]

On the Death Star, I think Obi-Wan knew that he ultimately could not defeat Vader one-on-one, but if he allowed Vader to strike him down, he could guide Luke through the Force and help him in the future.

Thats what one could think. But if not, it looked rather even.

Which means vader/skywalker lost to obi won once, was allowed to win against him the second time and lost to his son. Pretty bad record for a bad ass lol

 

[Chaz]

Here's my opinion on Anakin's appearance at the end of ROTJ:

It has to be the older Anakin (the late Sebastian Shaw).

Why? Because the younger Anakin was never truly a Jedi, IMHO. He was a Jedi-in-training who was turned to the dark side.

Only the redeemed Anakin who acted selflessly and destroyed the Emperor was a Jedi.

If you show the younger Anakin, you're showing the brash emotional young man who massacred the Sand People at the camp where his mother died.

Anakin redeemed himself in the final moments of his life. To show a younger Anakin tosses the redemption out the window.

Anakin was raised to the level of Jedi Knight prior to Episode 3.

See the Clone Wars Volume II.

 

[vince56]

Anakin was raised to the level of Jedi Knight prior to Episode 3.

See the Clone Wars Volume II.

Here here. ...and he sits on the Jedi Council in Episode III. Even though they wouldn't make him a master, No pawadan does that. Anakin was a Jedi Knight who turned to the darkside, not an apprentice Jedi.

Remember Yoda's line about Anakin? "Powerful Jedi was he....hmmm....POWERFUL Jedi."