Staying the Course

[Harry]

You guys, and especially Jim, are making me feel like Alfred E. Neuman. I would agree this season has been a disappointment. I would also agree that Green's ego often gets in his way (I expect him to go back to Warner). That said, this definitely is not the "same old Cards." Plus, winning or not, this is a fun team, though mixed in with equal amounts of frustration.**

First, even the Cardiac Cards weren't this athletic. This team has athletes. On offense, especially, this is still a very young team. It will be inconsistent. Receivers don't come back to help out the QB. They fail to read blitzes. The line doesn't pick each other up. It's easy to see the problems. The big difference between this team and its predecessors is that this team can be taught to improve. It has a huge upside.

Second, this team coaching staff is creative. Look at the defensive game plan against the Panthers. No NFL level corners, no true anchor tackle and no real middle linebacker and they play the Panthers to a standstill. Pendergast continues to grow in his role and that is huge. Much the same can be said for Rowen. I actually saw them throw a swing pass. Wasn't that Boldin I saw in the backfield? These are not the "same old Cards." They have a ways to grow, but this is not business as usual. This is about the coaches asking, "What can we do to win?" When an OC starts thinking outside the box anything can happen. They may have broken our hearts, but at least they weren't boring doing it.

Third, this team had little depth going into to the season. It was too much to ask that Green build depth by the second year. Also, the gods of football have not been kind when it comes to injuries, but this team isn't mailing it in; they're still fighting. This is a team worth paying money to see.*

I think they could win the next two, though the odds would be better if McCown starts. This kid is still getting better. He lacks a line, a tight end and running weapons, but he has the tools. If he doesn't make it here, mark my words; he will make it.*

I don't think they can still contend for anything, but I wouldn't write them off too easily. This is not a team of destiny, but with a little better fortune it may yet have a destiny worth seeing. Add one more good off-season and a new stadium and that destiny just might get fulfilled sooner than it seems at this moment.

 

[az1965]

I think the expectations were raised by national media jumping on the wagon and picking us to win division. We are not used to this kind of treatment and I guess quite a few of us were really disappointed with the way the early part of the season went. I know I was. But like you said, I'm optimistic for the future.

 

[O]

We are Cardinals fans, we always stay the course.

 

[40yearfan]

You guys, and especially Jim, are making me feel like Alfred E. Neuman. I would agree this season has been a disappointment. I would also agree that Green's ego often gets in his way (I expect him to go back to Warner). That said, this definitely is not the "same old Cards." Plus, winning or not, this is a fun team, though mixed in with equal amounts of frustration.**

First, even the Cardiac Cards weren't this athletic. This team has athletes. On offense, especially, this is still a very young team. It will be inconsistent. Receivers don't come back to help out the QB. They fail to read blitzes. The line doesn't pick each other up. It's easy to see the problems. The big difference between this team and its predecessors is that this team can be taught to improve. It has a huge upside.

Second, this team coaching staff is creative. Look at the defensive game plan against the Panthers. No NFL level corners, no true anchor tackle and no real middle linebacker and they play the Panthers to a standstill. Pendergast continues to grow in his role and that is huge. Much the same can be said for Rowen. I actually saw them throw a swing pass. Wasn't that Boldin I saw in the backfield? These are not the "same old Cards." They have a ways to grow, but this is not business as usual. This is about the coaches asking, "What can we do to win?" When an OC starts thinking outside the box anything can happen. They may have broken our hearts, but at least they weren't boring doing it.

Third, this team had little depth going into to the season. It was too much to ask that Green build depth by the second year. Also, the gods of football have not been kind when it comes to injuries, but this team isn't mailing it in; they're still fighting. This is a team worth paying money to see.*

I think they could win the next two, though the odds would be better if McCown starts. This kid is still getting better. He lacks a line, a tight end and running weapons, but he has the tools. If he doesn't make it here, mark my words; he will make it.*

I don't think they can still contend for anything, but I wouldn't write them off too easily. This is not a team of destiny, but with a little better fortune it may yet have a destiny worth seeing. Add one more good off-season and a new stadium and that destiny just might get fulfilled sooner than it seems at this moment.

Nice write up Harry. Thanks for lifting my spirits.

 

[Duckjake]

but with a little better fortune

But that is what makes them the same ol' Cardinals. They never get a break unless it's somebody's leg.

Blowing seasons through one or more crazy developments has been something I've seen the Cardinals do for 35 years. It started in 1970 when they beat Dallas 20-7 and 38-0 and Dallas goes to the SuperBowl while the Cards lose their last 3 games and miss the playoffs.

I can't count the number of times since then they've had freak injuries or freak fumbles, failed to manage the clock through some goofball activity, or been unable to score from inside the 5 yard line in four tries with the game on the line.

With the exception of 1995,and the two McGinnis/Tobin fiasco's they've always been entertaining, young and having great prospects for the future.
Just never seems to work out.

 

[Pariah]

like Alfred E. Neuman.

"What, me worry?"

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I'm one of the most optimistic fans ever. But even I'm feeling a bit jaded. Still, I'd really like to see Denny stock pile more talent through another draft and another FA period. I think we'll start to overwhelm teams in 06'.

 

[Shane]

Great take Harry!

I totally agree with you about McCown. He will make it. It just wont be here. Another plkayer that will go elsewhere and be starting successfully for years IMO.

 

[BigDavis75]

Good post Harry, I hope you're right. If we can go to 3-4 and be within a game of the division thaty would be amazing.

 

[seesred]

I spoke with Josh tonight. He will start and he is very upbeat!WE will win this gam e o0n Sunday and who knows what happens after that. By the way spoke with Russell Davis and his wife they really would love to stay here and hope that thier agent can get a deal done.Also spoke with linsbacker Darling and his wife. She is going to have a baby in three months and he is very up on what Green is doing.


GBR
40

 

[BigRedMO]

Be serious. The Cardiac Cardinals had far more talent then this team. 3 HOFers if you count Wilson who retired early in 70s and Wehrli a finalist who did not make it last year would be the 4th. An offensive line that set a record for fewest sacks allowed. A team that went 11-3, 10-4, 10-4 and won the bad ass East two years in a row. Pro Bowlers: Hart, Metcalf, Gray, Tilley, Smith, Bakken, Dobler, Dierdorf, Banks, Young, Wilson, and Wehrli. I recall a ProBowl where 4 of the 5 starting linemen were Cardinals. I dont ever recall seeing that since for a team. Those Cardinal teams would put 7+ players on those Pro Bowl teams. It takes the current Cards 7 years to put 7 players on the ProBowl teams now at the current rate of 1 a year.

 

[AzCards21]

Be serious. The Cardiac Cardinals had far more talent then this team. 3 HOFers if you count Wilson who retired early in 70s and Wehrli a finalist who did not make it last year would be the 4th. An offensive line that set a record for fewest sacks allowed. A team that went 11-3, 10-4, 10-4 and won the bad ass East two years in a row. Pro Bowlers: Hart, Metcalf, Gray, Tilley, Smith, Bakken, Dobler, Dierdorf, Banks, Young, Wilson, and Wehrli. I recall a ProBowl where 4 of the 5 starting linemen were Cardinals. I dont ever recall seeing that since for a team. Those Cardinal teams would put 7+ players on those Pro Bowl teams. It takes the current Cards 7 years to put 7 players on the ProBowl teams now at the current rate of 1 a year.

Most of us don't care about the Missou days. The Cardiacs are from '98. All we care about is the post move days. Sorry we don't share your history in any way.

 

[nurnay]

You guys, and especially Jim, are making me feel like Alfred E. Neuman. I would agree this season has been a disappointment. I would also agree that Green's ego often gets in his way (I expect him to go back to Warner). That said, this definitely is not the "same old Cards." Plus, winning or not, this is a fun team, though mixed in with equal amounts of frustration.**

First, even the Cardiac Cards weren't this athletic. This team has athletes. On offense, especially, this is still a very young team. It will be inconsistent. Receivers don't come back to help out the QB. They fail to read blitzes. The line doesn't pick each other up. It's easy to see the problems. The big difference between this team and its predecessors is that this team can be taught to improve. It has a huge upside.

Second, this team coaching staff is creative. Look at the defensive game plan against the Panthers. No NFL level corners, no true anchor tackle and no real middle linebacker and they play the Panthers to a standstill. Pendergast continues to grow in his role and that is huge. Much the same can be said for Rowen. I actually saw them throw a swing pass. Wasn't that Boldin I saw in the backfield? These are not the "same old Cards." They have a ways to grow, but this is not business as usual. This is about the coaches asking, "What can we do to win?" When an OC starts thinking outside the box anything can happen. They may have broken our hearts, but at least they weren't boring doing it.

Third, this team had little depth going into to the season. It was too much to ask that Green build depth by the second year. Also, the gods of football have not been kind when it comes to injuries, but this team isn't mailing it in; they're still fighting. This is a team worth paying money to see.*

I think they could win the next two, though the odds would be better if McCown starts. This kid is still getting better. He lacks a line, a tight end and running weapons, but he has the tools. If he doesn't make it here, mark my words; he will make it.*

I don't think they can still contend for anything, but I wouldn't write them off too easily. This is not a team of destiny, but with a little better fortune it may yet have a destiny worth seeing. Add one more good off-season and a new stadium and that destiny just might get fulfilled sooner than it seems at this moment.

Right on, Harry. The win vs. SF combined with the close one vs. CAR has given me hope. This team will get better, It's easy for us Cards fans to slip back into our "here we go again" mode (my avatar is still there), but let;s see what happens after the bye.

 

[nurnay]

Most of us don't care about the Missou days. The Cardiacs are from '98. All we care about is the post move days. Sorry we don't share your history in any way.

bingo. sorry, but i became a fan when they moved to az. the "cardiac cardinals" were jake's team and, although they stunk most weeks, had a knack for hanging in there in some games and coming back at the last minute. no offense to fans who were around for the stl days.

 

[Harry]

AZC21,

I specifically chose the word athletic, not talented, because I wanted to focus on training. I watched that StL team play most of their games and they were good. They were only modest athletically. Metcalf and oddly Smith are the only one who would enjoy an athletic advantage over the current group. Rolle is a much better athlete than Wehrli. The same could be said for A. Wilson over L. Wilson. If you're asking me which one I'd rather have on a field, I'd take L., broken hands. However, A. could develop into a better player, capable of doing more things.

My point was that the upside of the current roster is awesome. When Green landed in AZ he said a young team needs teachers for coaches. Okay, let's see some teaching, because if we see it, the results will be tremendous.

I firmly believe that with the right coaching and a couple of key players, this team could play with any in the league in a couple of years. That "couple of years" thing is critical. Free agency realities say that for the most part opportunities exist in windows. The Cards are in one of those windows now if they don't blow it.

 

[JeffGollin]

We are Cardinals fans, we always stay the course.
First of all: "Where we gonna go?"

Secondly, There's nothing we can do about events occurring up to this date. In the words of the late (far less than great) JR Haldeman: "You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Third - The season will be what the season is; so why even bother to prognosticate. The only folks among us who should feel really bummed out are the ones who made "fearless forecasts" or talked trash to their friends and now have to swallow a bunch of pride.

Fourth - Except in very philosophical terms - "We aren't the team and the team isn't us." We just root for the team (i.e. we hope they'll do good). When they don't, it's no reflection on us as persons.

Fifth- Football is fun, and the Cardinals - win or lose - are an exciting team to follow. We have 10 games left in the regular season to enjoy Cardinal football. It's time to fall back on the old coaching cliche: "One game at a time" (and let the season take care of itself).

Finally - The time for moaning, breast-beating, second-guessing, lynchings and regrouping is in January. (I'll be right there with you).

But not now. For now, there's the Titans tomorrow. We can beat them.

 

[HookemCards]

Most of us don't care about the Missou days. The Cardiacs are from '98. All we care about is the post move days. Sorry we don't share your history in any way.

Thats not true, alot of us are long timers that followed the Cards in the 60's and 70's.

 

[HookemCards]

Be serious. The Cardiac Cardinals had far more talent then this team. 3 HOFers if you count Wilson who retired early in 70s and Wehrli a finalist who did not make it last year would be the 4th. An offensive line that set a record for fewest sacks allowed. A team that went 11-3, 10-4, 10-4 and won the bad ass East two years in a row. Pro Bowlers: Hart, Metcalf, Gray, Tilley, Smith, Bakken, Dobler, Dierdorf, Banks, Young, Wilson, and Wehrli. I recall a ProBowl where 4 of the 5 starting linemen were Cardinals. I dont ever recall seeing that since for a team. Those Cardinal teams would put 7+ players on those Pro Bowl teams. It takes the current Cards 7 years to put 7 players on the ProBowl teams now at the current rate of 1 a year.

I agree that the 70's Cardiac Cards had some real talent on the OL, and few other areas (Gray, Hart, Tilley, Bakken). But there are a couple of points I don't agree with in your accessment. Firstly, one thing that team had, and more specifically in there PBers and HoFers was experience. Most of those guys were with the team for several years before they became dominate. Secondly, they had the advantage of having the same coaches for several years. Denny and most of the staff are in there second year, Rowen in his first, and Lindsey just a year and a half. As the coaches and players grow together this team has the athletes to become very good, if not great. Are we there yet, obviously not, but we are on the right track even if the record doesn't indicate it. Thirdly, the age of free agency has prevented players from staying together for a long period of time, its a different era in the NFL. Lastly, what did all those PBers and HoFers do for us in the playoffs. Absolutely nothing. I loved watching those 70s teams play, but I can see the players on this team are more athletic than those teams. Give them a bit of time to grow up together.

 

[arthurracoon]

 

[Pariah]

Thats not true, alot of us are long timers that followed the Cards in the 60's and 70's.

I didn't follow them then, but that doesn't change the fact that THEY ARE the Cardiac Cards. A generation of fans shouldn't try to wrestle a team's nickname away from an earlier era just because they didn't follow them then.

 

[Mitch]

I like your optimism, Harry. It is refreshing. And you have always called a spade a spade on this board...and while you make a good point in calling Pendergast creative, I think it's premature to call the rest of the staff creative, especially the offensive coaches. Yes, putting Boldin in the backfield and throwing to him was a nice wrinkle. Unfortunately, the play calling when the game was on the line was dreadfully poor. The Panthers scrapped their soft zone and locked up man-to-man on the Cardinal receivers...and the Cardinals made no tangible adjustments. In fact, the offense did not look even remotely prepared to handle the Panthers' change in strategy. Plus, the Panthers were gambling that McCown would remain pass happy and not look to run...a scrambling QB will take a defense out of man-to-man coverage every time...just ask the Falcons' opponents when they try to defend Michael Vick. When McCown finally did decide to run it was on 4th and 10...and he came up a yard short. Too little, too late.

With McCown in the lineup...we will be able to see just how creative Keith Rowen is, because it will be imperative for Rowen to use Josh's athleticism, particularly his running ability, in order to put maximum pressure on the opponents' defense.

Having seemingly ignored or overlooked J.J. Arrington's talents to date...why he isn't getting the ball in open spaces where he can juke and scoot is a mystery...Having seemingly ignored Teyo Johnson's talents to date...this guy is one of the best targets and athletes the Cardinals have ever had at TE...yet he's getting no looks or touches...and, while Bryant Johnson has hurt himself by dropping passes the first couple of weeks, one may argue that his talents are not being tapped properly.

Can't run the ball? What would stop Rowen from being creative and flip-flopping Davis and Wells on occasion to get a stronger push up the middle? Why don't we see an effort to trap block by pulling the fullback or the tight end? Why isn't Arrington sent on more sweeps? Last week, Boldin was given a toss sweep instead.

Yes, Harry. The Cardinals have more talent than they usually do...which is why the coaching has been conspicuously sub-par. I like what you said about the talent being taught to improve...but first, the Cardinal coaches had better understand how to use their talent...how to prepare the players for all the adjustments they have to make during the course of a ballgame...and calling plays that create mismatches that the Cardinals can exploit...like isolating Teyo Johnson on routes when he's being covered by a linebacker, to give one example...or isolating Arrington on a LB and running him deep up the sideline the way Falcons do with Warrick Dunn.

I agree with your assessment of Josh McCown. Look at the job Mike Shanahan has done with Jake Plummer. If McCown gets the proper coaching and his team puts him in a system that caters to his strengths, he will thrive. Hopefully, Keith Rowen will cater his offense to Josh's strengths and Josh will re-sign and thrive here. It will be interesting to see what Rowen has done with Josh these past two weeks of practice.

Oh yeah wait a minute...THIS JUST IN...we don't even know for sure whether Josh is starting tomorrow...what is up with that, Harry? And with Dennis Green, he might like the way Warner is throwing in warmups and change his mind. The way Green has treated McCown...is the very reason why, if McCown is smart, he will never re-sign here.

Look at it this way...if McCown is the SECRET starter...why not name him the starter and praise him for his play the past two games? Why the secrecy? To me, this tactic epitomizes the absurdity of Green's decision making. Then Cardinals are playing the Tennessee Titans, for crying out loud. Like it really is going to matter to them all that much which QB is starting?

This is a matter of respect...which Josh McCown has gotten very little of from his head coach...and this is just another chapter..."OK, Josh, you can start, but let's keep this our little secret right up until game time..." This kid played his heart out for the last two games...he's thrown for nearly 800 yards in two games and he has the team's only win...why Josh's performance would merit a secret start is beyond imagination.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Most of us don't care about the Missou days. The Cardiacs are from '98. All we care about is the post move days. Sorry we don't share your history in any way.

Speak for yourself...

May come as a surprise to you but the world didn't come into being at your birth...

 

[conraddobler]

I agree that the 70's Cardiac Cards had some real talent on the OL, and few other areas (Gray, Hart, Tilley, Bakken). But there are a couple of points I don't agree with in your accessment. Firstly, one thing that team had, and more specifically in there PBers and HoFers was experience. Most of those guys were with the team for several years before they became dominate. Secondly, they had the advantage of having the same coaches for several years. Denny and most of the staff are in there second year, Rowen in his first, and Lindsey just a year and a half. As the coaches and players grow together this team has the athletes to become very good, if not great. Are we there yet, obviously not, but we are on the right track even if the record doesn't indicate it. Thirdly, the age of free agency has prevented players from staying together for a long period of time, its a different era in the NFL. Lastly, what did all those PBers and HoFers do for us in the playoffs. Absolutely nothing. I loved watching those 70s teams play, but I can see the players on this team are more athletic than those teams. Give them a bit of time to grow up together.

Thanks for saying what I was going to say better than I would have said it.


I was thinking the same thing mostly because of our stats.

There in lies the real story, we are no longer 32 in this or 31st in that, except the most correctable areas and areas that have to do with experience.

What that tells me is that if you looked up this teams history or any teams history I think what you'd see is signs of comming glory.

The kids have to grow up, get used to each other, more time in the system and new fresh talent has to be added.

A fundamentally sound HC, rock solid, may have won 3 or 4 more games with this bunch than DG has, because that's not DG's strength, his strength is talent aquisition and that takes more time than just tightening up the ship and playing better with what you have.

His OC and DC are both solid thinkers but they aren't hugely experienced and they make flub ups, they'll get better because they are quality people.

 

[Duckjake]

Third - The season will be what the season is; so why even bother to prognosticate. The only folks among us who should feel really bummed out are the ones who made "fearless forecasts" or talked trash to their friends and now have to swallow a bunch of pride.

What is football without bragging rights and betting and fearless forecasting? It's a good thing most fans don't take your attitude or NFL games would be on the Outdoor Life Network with hockey.

Football is different in one major aspect from all other sports and that is the limited number of games played. Baseball, Basketball and Hockey fans no matter how bad their team is usually get to see their team win 20,30,60 times a season.

Cardinal fans only get to see 4,5 or 6 wins a year. About 10% of what Royals and Devil Ray fans get to see.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Most of us don't care about the Missou days. The Cardiacs are from '98. All we care about is the post move days. Sorry we don't share your history in any way.

Bzzzzzzzzz. Wrong answer cowboy. If all we care about is the "post move" days, then we may as well rename the team the "wranglers" or "desert devils" and change the uniforms to the stupid pewter color the bucs wear.

Part of what makes the cardinals so cool is that they were one of the orginal NFL franchises. And what will make winning so sweet is the way that it will erase 5 decades of futility.

Caring only about the "post move days" is like Amercians disregarding their greco roman heritage (or something like that).

Next!