Stoudemire expecting to see time at center

[azdad1978]

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune

Talk to Suns officials and you get the idea that Amare Stoudemire is easing up on his reluctance to play center.
Talk to Stoudemire, though, and you're not so sure.

Suns president Bryan Colangelo said he can see a scenario where "our best combination is when he's out there as a small 'five' (center)" flanked by Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson at forward and Steve Nash and Quentin Richardson at guard.

This group "could be your starting five or at least play significant minutes together.”

Though Stoudemire has resisted this idea in the past, the situation has been explained to him, and "ultimately Amare's about winning."

And that means if he needs to play a significant amount of time at center, "He'll be fine with it," Colangelo said. Said Stoudemire, "If I have to do it for a couple games, that's cool.

"It's not my natural position. . . but sometimes it will be to our advantage because we'll be quicker (than opponents) and I can still go into the post.
"If I'm called on to play center, I'll play it." How about being the starting center?

"Whoa!" said a surprised Stoudemire. "It depends.

"We have legitimate centers (in Jake Voskhul and Steven Hunter). I don't think I'll be called on to play center that much."

OPTIONS

The Suns will pick up the fourth-year rookie option on Stoudemire by Oct. 31, Colangelo said. Whether they also pick up the same option on Casey Jacobsen has to be decided by the Suns' new six-member management committee, Colangelo indicated.

Said Jacobsen, "I'll be patient. I've learned not to expect anything.

"I'm just going to work my butt off and hope they pick up my option." Both Stoudemire and Jacobsen already are under contract for the upcoming season.

NEW PLAYER

The Suns are likely to add Paul Shirley, a big forward who played at Iowa State and finished last season with the Chicago Bulls, to their training camp roster, Colangelo said.

Shirley, who is expected to receive a nominal guarantee, would be the team's 15th player. He more or less replaces Jackson Vroman, who is out for a month with an injured thumb. The Suns also are evaluating Justin Rowe, a center who played at Maine and later in Europe.

MAJERLE A BROADCASTER
The Suns have added Dan Majerle, who had worked for national cable networks since retiring as a player after the 2001-02 season, to their broadcast team.

Majerle will serve as a color analyst for 41 games.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=28787

 

[Joe Mama]

Here is my prediction. If Amare Stoudemire plays significant minutes at center, and the team wins he won't complain about it much. However if he is getting those minutes at center, and the team is losing this will be a weekly story.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Here is my prediction. If Amare Stoudemire plays significant minutes at center, and the team wins he won't complain about it much. However if he is getting those minutes at center, and the team is losing this will be a weekly story.

That's probably a good prediction. Chances are, if the team is losing, the complaints will end up being voiced through his mother.

I just don't see that small lineup working. They're going to give up a ton of second shots.

Nice that Majerle will join the broadcast team. I've heard him once or twice (on TNT?) and he has the big advantage that he's not overly impressed with himself whenever he's talking. Much different from Calvin "I got a Rocket in my Pocket" Murphy, for instance.

 

[slinslin]

Just get rid off Gary Bender, Tim Kempton and Vinny Del Negro! Especially Bender and Kempton are AWFUL.

Dan Majerle is a good start. Now get Steve Kerr as well for broadcasting. McCoy and Eddie Johnson on the radio.
Oh and Marv Albert was fired by the Knicks network.

 

[BC867]

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
And that means if he needs to play a significant amount of time at center, "He'll be fine with it," Colangelo said. Said Stoudemire, "If I have to do it for a couple games, that's cool.

"It's not my natural position. . . but sometimes it will be to our advantage because we'll be quicker (than opponents) and I can still go into the post.
"If I'm called on to play center, I'll play it." How about being the starting center?

"Whoa!" said a surprised Stoudemire. "It depends.

The biggest "whoa" is 6'7"-215 Shawn Marion taking a pounding every game at Power Forward.

For a guy who prefers to play outside as a Small Forward to be the Power Forward by default is not a formula for winning.

 

[Joe Mama]

The biggest "whoa" is 6'7"-215 Shawn Marion taking a pounding every game at Power Forward.

For a guy who prefers to play outside as a Small Forward to be the Power Forward by default is not a formula for winning.

that may be true, but I doubt they care as much about how Shawn Marion feels. He's already locked into a huge contract.

The small lineup will have some trouble on the boards, but don't forget that Shawn Marion and Quentin Richardson are the best rebounders in the NBA at their respective positions. JJ is no slouch on the boards either. I worry more about those players getting exhausted from battling bigger guys for extended minutes.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Btw, the best thing about our hopefully very good offense is that it should keep Bender in check saying "Maybe this will get them going".

 

[carey]

Btw, the best thing about our hopefully very good offense is that it should keep Bender in check saying "Maybe this will get them going".

Amen brother.

 

[elindholm]

The small lineup will have some trouble on the boards, but don't forget that Shawn Marion and Quentin Richardson are the best rebounders in the NBA at their respective positions.

I'm not familiar with Richardson's rebounding (except for the numbers), but I don't think it's realistic to expect Marion to be a better-than-average rebounder at PF. Marion doesn't box out at all, so his rebounds come from getting to the ball quickly. That's fine if he's matched up with a wing player, but not nearly so appealing if his man is already close to the basket.

The small lineup is a recipe for disaster on the boards.

 

[Dustbuster]

I seriously doubt that the "smallball" lineup will be used exclusively or even for long lengths of time. Smallball has proven one thing in the past, however, and that is that it can really shift the momentum of a game and put a lot of points on the board quickly. We will probably see that lineup for a 5 minutes or so every other game.

But really, this team has enough quickness and scoring to achieve a similar effect fulltime without being "small". Hunter will be key, in some ways, if he can keep up on the run (rumor is that he can), and also block some shots to open up the fast break. It would nice to see 5-7 blocks per game collectively from Hunter, Amare, and Shawn. This is one area that we were particularly weak on, and Voskuhl simply does not block shots. However, Voskuhl also moves up the floor fairly well, and so our biggest motivation to run "smallball" is really to put our five most talented players on the floor at the same time.

Rebounding shouldn't suffer all that badly, as both JJ and particularly Q rebound as well as your average small forward. And Marion can still get his boards down in the block, as he kept up his performance when he had to play PF during an extended stretch last year. Marion actually plays well down low, but it is killer on his body (particularly when he was still playing 40 minutes a game). I am more concerned about Amare boxing out on a regular basis. On average he is only going to be outweighed by 10-20 pounds at the center spot, but his natural strength and leaping ability should erase that deficiency. He just needs to focus on boxing out and crashing the boards (he was actually better at this as a rookie than he was last year. He was very offensively minded last year. I'm hoping the two halves come together this year.

that may be true, but I doubt they care as much about how Shawn Marion feels. He's already locked into a huge contract.

That strikes me as being an incredibly short-sighted approach to building and maintaining a team. At the moment Shawn Marion is still Phoenix's marquee player, captain, and highest paid employee. What he thinks and feels had better matter to management!

 

[Mainstreet]

The small lineup will have some trouble on the boards, but don't forget that Shawn Marion and Quentin Richardson are the best rebounders in the NBA at their respective positions. JJ is no slouch on the boards either. I worry more about those players getting exhausted from battling bigger guys for extended minutes.Joe Mama

This would be my biggest concern as well, physical exhaustion and getting players banged up, when playing this smaller lineup against physical teams. Otherwise, this lineup could be quite effective against most teams. This five is extremely quick and has good rebounders with tremendous leaping ability. However, I believe this is a lineup that should be used primarily when the team is sluggish or behind late in the game.

This five would be better used to disrupt another team's rhythm. It is a terrific lineup, however, to use this lineup regularly is a recipe for injury.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I actually think that Amare would have a promising (all star) career as a center. Maybe better than at pf.

But,

Not if he's got no real pf playing with him. The problem with this lineup is that it leaves Amare as the only big player on the court. Play him at center, but put Vroman, Zarko, or someone beside him.

We assume that Shawn would be the pf in that small ball scenario. I believe that JJ is a better player at the 4 than Shawn is. He has a little more height and a little more bulk.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We assume that Shawn would be the pf in that small ball scenario. I believe that JJ is a better player at the 4 than Shawn is. He has a little more height and a little more bulk.

man, i've been saying this for a season and half!

 

[F-Dog]

This group "could be your starting five or at least play significant minutes together.”

My thoughts:

1. I had already assumed that this would be the usual crunch-time lineup, but the 'starting five' comment is a big surprise. Q could get his PT without keeping that lineup on the floor for extended minutes; I guess the point would be to create space to play Barbosa and Jacobsen as 7th and 8th man. IMO the Suns would be more effective playing bigger lineups and getting the little guys to play with more energy in reduced PT.

2. My concern with Amare isn't that he'll raise a stink; it's that he'll say nothing, get beaten down during the season, and start looking for a way out of town when his contract is up. If it were my team, I wouldn't want to play Amare at center at all if I could help it (partly because he's much more effective at PF).

3. Marion is a lousy choice to play PF in a small lineup; JJ and Q are both bigger and more physical than Marion is, and Marion rebounds better from the SF position. If the Suns are going to go small regularly, Joe Johnson would be my default choice to play PF.

 

[Joe Mama]

I seriously doubt that the "smallball" lineup will be used exclusively or even for long lengths of time. Smallball has proven one thing in the past, however, and that is that it can really shift the momentum of a game and put a lot of points on the board quickly. We will probably see that lineup for a 5 minutes or so every other game.

Welcome to the message board DustBuster. I don't think we are going to see the small ball lineup quite as much as some people are fearing. However I will just about guarantee that they play with smaller lineups for at least 15 minutes per game. The only way that doesn't happen is if one or more of the other big men really establishes himself.

That strikes me as being an incredibly short-sighted approach to building and maintaining a team. At the moment Shawn Marion is still Phoenix's marquee player, captain, and highest paid employee. What he thinks and feels had better matter to management!

of course I didn't mean that they don't care at all about Shawn Marion's feelings. I guarantee they aren't as worried about the way he feels as they are about Amare Stoudemire though. Make no mistake about it. Amare Stoudemire is his team's marquee player.

The small lineup will have some trouble on the boards, but don't forget that Shawn Marion and Quentin Richardson are the best rebounders in the NBA at their respective positions.

I'm not familiar with Richardson's rebounding (except for the numbers), but I don't think it's realistic to expect Marion to be a better-than-average rebounder at PF. Marion doesn't box out at all, so his rebounds come from getting to the ball quickly. That's fine if he's matched up with a wing player, but not nearly so appealing if his man is already close to the basket.

The small lineup is a recipe for disaster on the boards.

most of the time Shawn Marion is inside battling with the big boys for those boards. He's not great at boxing out, but like you said he's incredibly quick and long. Besides, even if he is only an average rebounder at power forward that still leaves Amare, Richardson, and JJ rebounding at the other positions. I'm not much more concerned with Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire getting worn out, bullied, and beaten up by bigger players.

If I had to guess I would say that on average we will see 10-20 minutes of what I would consider small ball each game.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Ok, I just had to chime in.

You guys are all assuming that every single minute that we play the small ball lineup, we will be outmatched and outclassed by the other team. Why is that? Isn't it possible that our small ball lineup would NOT be outmatched by the opposite team? It's one thing to play that lineup against the starters of the opposite team all the time, it's yet another to play that lineup against a bunch of bench players, regardless of the size of the other team.

People lament that we would go small, but let me tell you something, EVERY single team in the NBA goes small at some time--and the Phoenix Suns arguably have the best 5 players in the league in a small lineup. Personally, I can't see why 15 minutes of running a small lineup is bad--even if they have a large power forward or center, most of the time, our lineup will STILL be better.

 

[elindholm]

Hey Chaplin, to reward you for not having posted in so long, I'm actually going to agree with you.

The Suns should do well in small-vs.-small matchups. And it is true that most (maybe not all) teams go small once in a while. Coaches seem to like it, because it's something that attracts attention to themselves: "Hey, look at me, I'm doing something weird, that means I'm a real coach!" Small ball is a gamble, and since most people in sports are gamblers at heart, it's appealing for that reason too. Of course, gamblers tend to remember their successes a lot more than their failures, but that's another problem.

The concern I have about the Suns and small ball is that they will be forced into it. It's one thing to go small once in a while when the situation seems to warrant it. It's something else when you have to do it for (by Joe Mama's estimate) up to 40% of each game, because you just don't have any other options.

 

[scotsman13]

welcome back chaplin, we missed you.

and yes even i do agree with you on this.

 

[Chaplin]

The concern I have about the Suns and small ball is that they will be forced into it. It's one thing to go small once in a while when the situation seems to warrant it. It's something else when you have to do it for (by Joe Mama's estimate) up to 40% of each game, because you just don't have any other options.

The question is why would we be forced into it? Foul trouble? That's certainly a possibility, but that's the only possibility I can see where it might be a detriment. It certainly wouldn't be to match up, because any team would be stupid to try to actually force US to go small, not with our firepower.

 

[coloradosun]

This small ball lineup will depend on who the opponent is. It will probably be a team by team assessment. I will guarantee it will not be used against Miami, SA, Minnesota or any other team that has a strong 4 or a strong 5 or both. The Clippers, Golden State, Seattle, Charlotte, etc. might see it as a starting lineup and have them adjust their matchups accordingly.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'm late here and I agree with a lot of you - my worry would be about that starting line-up:

Voskuhl
Hunter
Lampe
Vroman
Cabarkapa

Would all come off the bench. Cabarkapa could be a primarily SF but with Jacobsen and Barbosa off bench at Guard deserving minutes... Voskuhl, Hunter, Lampe, and Vroman seem to deserve a few minutes and IMO it seems it would be easier to put 1 of these 4 players to start to play a role, rather than have your best players/scorers to start. I guess the bench players could play:

Barbosa 1/2
Jacobsen 2/3
Cabarkapa 3/4
Lampe 4/5

Voskuhl, Hunter, and Vroman in that scenario don't seem to be getting a lot of minutes though. I agree that it could depend on matchups and if Suns are going to limit minutes - 15 minutes a game with that line-up (to start and finish perhaps most likely, depending on matchups again) wouldn't be that bad? Oh well I'm not a coach...

 

[Joe Mama]

This small ball lineup will depend on who the opponent is. It will probably be a team by team assessment. I will guarantee it will not be used against Miami, SA, Minnesota or any other team that has a strong 4 or a strong 5 or both. The Clippers, Golden State, Seattle, Charlotte, etc. might see it as a starting lineup and have them adjust their matchups accordingly.

Generally speaking the idea of small ball is to outhustle, outquick, and outrun the other team's bigger lineups. For the most part small ball worked very well against San Antonio in the playoffs a couple years ago.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Hey Chap, good to see you.

One factor with small ball is how the other team responds. One of the problems many teams have is that their big guys are not that good on offense, so they can't really exploit their advantage on the offensive end and lack the quickness to stop small ball on the defensive end. The result is that many teams end up matching small with small, which is a huge advantage to the Suns.

On the other hand, playing small against a strong low post offense risks getting into foul trouble or just wearing the guys out.

 

[elindholm]

For the most part small ball worked very well against San Antonio in the playoffs a couple years ago.

I hope the Suns have forgotten about that. The Suns were competitive in the Spurs series, but the fact of the matter is that, when push came to shove, they struggled for exactly the reasons that you'd expect from small ball.

In Game 1, they failed to rebound a critical Spurs miss from the free-throw line, and were bailed out by the absurdly improbable combination of Duncan missing twice more plus Stoudemire's prayer from beyond the arc. At critical points in the other games, they gave up easy baskets to interior cutters or couldn't control the defensive glass. And, as we all remember , Voskuhl was on the floor at the end of Game 4, so that can't be considered a small-ball victory either.

I'm not denying that small ball was effective against the Spurs, but its effectiveness wasn't really all that impressive, when you take everything into account. And it's hardly enough to continue putting it at the core of the franchise philosophy.

 

[George O'Brien]

The San Antion series is mostly a curiosity. The one weakness San Antonio has is that Parker has trouble defensing physical point guards. Gary Payton had his best series of the playoffs this season against Parker and Marbury had a pretty good series the previous year.

The odd thing about the Suns series against the Spurs was that the Suns played pretty good defense. The Spurs shot only 40.3% from the field. Duncan shot 52.1% - but averaged only 18.7 ppg. The Suns had pretty good success against the Spurs outside guys: Parker shot only 39.8%, Ginobili shot 28.0%, Bowen shot 31.3%, Claxton hit 33.3%, and Rose hit 40.7%. Stephen Jackson led their outside shooter with 43.2%. Their overall three point shooting was only 30.2%.

Unfortunately, the Suns shot worse.