Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Ronin]

Do you need this back?

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Lol. @Hoop Head Im pretty sure there are plenty of NBA fans on this board. Heck i watch more other nba games than i watch Suns games, mainly because i cant afford NBA League Pass. So whatever is on espn/tnt, I'll watch...beggers cant be choosy. Just saying

 

[Mainstreet]

Pretty sure we only have his early Bird rights, which is after 2 years instead of 3 for full Bird. That allows us to sign him for 175 of his previous salary or just a little higher than the midlevel exception. I doubt someone will offer Bol more than the MLE but we may need to pony up the full exception if we want to keep him. I'd imagine another team will gamble on him for a year but going beyond that is where I can see team options and non-guaranteed money being a factor.

This is good stuff. You got me looking this information up, but even now I'm not sure because I found it in bits and pieces and from different years.

I think the Suns may also have an option to pay Bol Bol, with Early Bird Rights, about 104.5% of the NBA league average salary.

It's unclear if this covered under the CBA, MLE for taxpayers.

'Early Bird Rights'

Early Bird Rights are a variant of Bird Rights, which we have also discussed in this glossary. One of the major differences between an Early Bird Rights and a Bird Rights ... Read More

www.nbamaniacs.com

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/what-are-bird-rights-how-nba-teams-use-them/

 

[Hoop Head]

Lol. @Hoop Head Im pretty sure there are plenty of NBA fans on this board. Heck i watch more other nba games than i watch Suns games, mainly because i cant afford NBA League Pass. So whatever is on espn/tnt, I'll watch...beggers cant be choosy. Just saying

Oh I know. I was just teasing since he and I had a bet over the finals and he had to sport that as an avatar for a month since the Celtics won.

No malice just a call back.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is good stuff. You got me looking this information up, but even now I'm not sure because I found it in bits and pieces and from different years.

I think the Suns may also have an option to pay Bol Bol, with Early Bird Rights, about 104.5% of the NBA league average salary.

It's unclear if this covered under the CBA, MLE for taxpayers.

'Early Bird Rights'

Early Bird Rights are a variant of Bird Rights, which we have also discussed in this glossary. One of the major differences between an Early Bird Rights and a Bird Rights ... Read More

www.nbamaniacs.com

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/what-are-bird-rights-how-nba-teams-use-them/

That's how we went over to re-sign Okogie last off-season or Royce. Okogie is important to note since we only had early bird rights on him.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's how we went over to re-sign Okogie last off-season or Royce. Okogie is important to note since we only had early bird rights on him.

Yes, but I'm wondering what is the most the Suns can pay Bol Bol.

Can they get into the $13 million a year range, the pay of an average NBA player? It's not clear to me. I doubt if another team would go that high but I am curious.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yes, but I'm wondering what is the most the Suns can pay Bol Bol.

Can they get into the $13 million a year range, the pay of an average NBA player? It's not clear to me. I doubt if another team would go that high but I am curious.

Yes, about that much. I'm not sure of the exact number but above the regular non-tax MLE, which is usually based on average annual salary in the league. So if it's $11.5 right now, I think $13m is a good estimate. It's just enough to make a difference and lure a player to stay vs leave in free agency and that's before looking at the increased salary after the first year due to the size of raises annually.

 

[Yuma]

I don't even think about the play-in and/or the playoffs anymore.

It seems to me, ownership and the front office have accepted their fate in the worst possible way.

They didn't make a significant trade to improve the team at the trade deadline, nor clean house while their assets had the most value.

If anything, the Suns priority seemed to be, dump future salary.

I think they couldn't get a KD trade done this deadline. I think everyone (ESPN, NBA pundits, etc) feels there may be changes in the offseason. I think it was Kellan Olson who said he thought KD to Houston rumors began when someone leaked a trade that didn't go down in 2024. Then KD or one of his buddies said he was open to be moved in 2024. It's either tinker around the edges again, maybe trading for a center and bringing everyone else back, or it will be a KD move most likely.

 

[Mainstreet]

This tweet sounds like Jae Crowder didn't want the Suns to trade him, but a conflict with Monty may have been the reason.

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[Covert Rain]

This tweet sounds like Jae Crowder didn't want the Suns to trade him, but a conflict with Monty may have been the reason.

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None of this is new I don't think. It was pretty widely reported that Monty didn't like dealing with Jae and later McGee. I never doubted it was a reason.

 

[Mainstreet]

None of this is new I don't think. It was pretty widely reported that Monty didn't like dealing with Jae and later McGee. I never doubted it was a reason.

I think the only thing new is Jae Crowder addressing it directly, as he has thus far.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the only thing new is Jae Crowder addressing it directly, as he has thus far.

It sounds like Monty will definitely be thrown under the bus, which is fair, but I think James Jones' role needs elaborated on. He failed this team as a whole by allowing Crowder to sit for 4 months, reducing his value. There was talk of trading him for a pick right after the season and when that didn't materialize almost all Crowder trade talk stopped. It's reasonable for Jae to get mentioned in that space also, like Grayson and Royce are now, because midlevel salaries of vets who are borderline starters are what push contenders over the edge and get them to part with picks. They provide instant help.

Jae was sat and there were numerous trades rumored before he was slipped into the KD deal. He made the same salary as Saric as well so the idea his salary was instrumental to a KD deal has never aligned with reality. Saric was traded for a bum who washed out within 2 months. Darius Beaszley isn't an NBA player and while I can't blame a team for taking a flyer, we could have had Rui Hachimura, who did display NBA talent.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the only thing new is Jae Crowder addressing it directly, as he has thus far.

Yeah I figured it likely would come out but usually these guys wait until they are completely done with the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

It sounds like Monty will definitely be thrown under the bus, which is fair, but I think James Jones' role needs elaborated on. He failed this team as a whole by allowing Crowder to sit for 4 months, reducing his value. There was talk of trading him for a pick right after the season and when that didn't materialize almost all Crowder trade talk stopped. It's reasonable for Jae to get mentioned in that space also, like Grayson and Royce are now, because midlevel salaries of vets who are borderline starters are what push contenders over the edge and get them to part with picks. They provide instant help.

Jae was sat and there were numerous trades rumored before he was slipped into the KD deal. He made the same salary as Saric as well so the idea his salary was instrumental to a KD deal has never aligned with reality. Saric was traded for a bum who washed out within 2 months. Darius Beaszley isn't an NBA player and while I can't blame a team for taking a flyer, we could have had Rui Hachimura, who did display NBA talent.

There is a similar approach of sitting Nurkic, although he returned to the team before he was traded.

For all his flaws, Nurkic could have helped the Suns win this season, although he was a DNP his last game.

I'm wondering if this could be the style of James Jones to sit or trade players who may not fit perfectly or who have an edge to them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah I figured it likely would come out but usually these guys wait until they are completely done with the game.

Crowder is probably near this point now, so we may find out soon enough.

There are probably four players that were shown the door for unclear reasons: Crowder, Ayton, Nurkic and Payne. They were all better than what the Suns got in return. I could be missing some more.

Edit: Yeah, JaVale McGee was likely another one.

 

[Covert Rain]

Crowder is probably near this point now, so we may find out soon enough.

There are probably four players that were shown the door for unclear reasons: Crowder, Ayton, Nurkic and Payne. They were all better than what the Suns got in return. I could be missing some more.

Edit: Yeah, JaVale McGee was likely another one.

To me Ayton was crystal clear. He was a head case and huge disappointment. Not to mention his team felt he was a supermax player. Nobody is giving Ayton a supermax deal.

Nurk was underperforming since late last season and carried into this season. I definitely wouldn’t put those two in that group.

 

[Mainstreet]

To me Ayton was crystal clear. He was a head case and huge disappointment. Nurk was underperforming since late last season and carried into this season. I definitely wouldn’t put those two in that group.

I'm not sure what category to put them in, but they were better starters than the Suns have now.

I have hope for Nick Richards. However, that doesn't mean he will not be gone as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is a similar approach of sitting Nurkic, although he returned to the team before he was traded.

For all his flaws, Nurkic could have helped the Suns win this season, although he was a DNP his last game.

I'm wondering if this could be the style of James Jones to sit or trade players who may not fit perfectly or who have an edge to them.

I'm not so sure. Keep in mind we lost 11 of the last 16 games Nurk played in.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not so sure. Keep in mind we lost 11 of the last 16 games Nurk played in.

And we also won 8 of our first 10 games with Nurkic. We had a winning record with him as a starter, 12-11, so his value can be reduced to paint pretty much whatever picture you want. The Suns were better with than without. Did he become a problem? I'd say yes. Was the problem insurmountable? I don't know. He did return and play in 2 games off the bench, 1-1, so he was capable of taking on a reduced role. Without knowing more details it's tough to say how that could have played out.

A team whose focus is on winning should explore repairing that relationship so we could get it together for a stretch run. A team with Richards, Nurkic, and Plumlee is better than a team with just Richards and Plumlee. James Jones hasn't earned the benefit of doubt with me where I'll grant him the relationship was unsalvagable. We don't know much other Budenholzer tried extinguishing the fire from when Nurkic stated the 2 hadn't talked in months. Maybe there's more and Nurkic wasn't receptive but no teammate spoke up to throw Nurk under the bus in any way just like no one did that with Crowder. Perhaps the issue was higher up. We have other examples where it was higher up. If Nurkic was cancerous towards the team then why didn't players celebrate his trade? We've seen that happen before

 

[AzStevenCal]

And we also won 8 of our first 10 games with Nurkic. We had a winning record with him as a starter, 12-11, so his value can be reduced to paint pretty much whatever picture you want. The Suns were better with than without. Did he become a problem? I'd say yes. Was the problem insurmountable? I don't know. He did return and play in 2 games off the bench, 1-1, so he was capable of taking on a reduced role. Without knowing more details it's tough to say how that could have played out.

A team whose focus is on winning should explore repairing that relationship so we could get it together for a stretch run. A team with Richards, Nurkic, and Plumlee is better than a team with just Richards and Plumlee. James Jones hasn't earned the benefit of doubt with me where I'll grant him the relationship was unsalvagable. We don't know much other Budenholzer tried extinguishing the fire from when Nurkic stated the 2 hadn't talked in months. Maybe there's more and Nurkic wasn't receptive but no teammate spoke up to throw Nurk under the bus in any way just like no one did that with Crowder. Perhaps the issue was higher up. We have other examples where it was higher up. If Nurkic was cancerous towards the team then why didn't players celebrate his trade? We've seen that happen before

I said at the time and I believe it still, that 9-2 start was a huge fluke and not reflective of this team. That's why I exempted the early stretch, just like I would for any player that was playing then.

But as I recall, Nurkic was decent if not spectacular in most of those early games and I have no idea why he fell off a cliff. All I know is that he was unavailable for one game and when he returned he was close to useless. Maybe it was injury, maybe it was coaching conflict but whatever it was, once he returned we struggled regularly when he was on the court except for maybe a game (against the Lakers IIRC).

 

[Hoop Head]

I said at the time and I believe it still, that 9-2 start was a huge fluke and not reflective of this team. That's why I exempted the early stretch, just like I would for any player that was playing then.

But as I recall, Nurkic was decent if not spectacular in most of those early games and I have no idea why he fell off a cliff. All I know is that he was unavailable for one game and when he returned he was close to useless. Maybe it was injury, maybe it was coaching conflict but whatever it was, once he returned we struggled regularly when he was on the court except for maybe a game (against the Lakers IIRC).

That's fair. I just took issue with the record being used to signify or amplify another problem. If that wasn't your intent, my mistake, but I think there are better numbers to look at than the team record that highlight the issue he had this year. He had an issue, what that was is up for debate. I find it hard to believe it was all him considering how much he trimmed down to prepare for the season and how he played to start the year. He hit the ground running and then something happened.

I think his splits paint an interesting picture, much more than the team's record alone. His usage was unusually high initially, in October, but once it went back down it seemed numbers were good until December. There was clearly something that happened and you can also tell by his stats in wins vs losses. I'm not going to blame him entirely since we've seen player issues recently and learned the amount of fault that belongs to the player is less than initially assumed.

Jusuf Nurkić 2024-25 Splits | Basketball-Reference.com

Get Jusuf Nurkić's 2024-25 Splits stats on Basketball-Reference.com

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[Yuma]

There is a similar approach of sitting Nurkic, although he returned to the team before he was traded.

For all his flaws, Nurkic could have helped the Suns win this season, although he was a DNP his last game.

I'm wondering if this could be the style of James Jones to sit or trade players who may not fit perfectly or who have an edge to them.

I think Nurkic always being a risk for injury may have been the thinking. I think he got caught in us trying to establish a multi team trade for KD, Beal, etc, and then they finally just moved him to be done with him. They then brought in a cheaper guy. I think it was all about slipping out of the second apron in the off season. That's the only logical reason. Now watch them stay above the second apron! LOL!

I was in the camp to play him to help us win. There were a couple teams he would have actually been able to take advantage of on the offensive end. IDK, he was turning the ball over so much and was a zero defensive presence this season, maybe they actually moved onto Plumlee instead.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not sure what category to put them in, but they were better starters than the Suns have now.

I have hope for Nick Richards. However, that doesn't mean he will not be gone as well.

Ayton was terrible at the end and disappeared all the time. When Nurk was actually playing well I think he replaced Ayton just fine. For some reason the dude just went AWOL towards the end of the season Ayton style, and it continued to this season.

 

[BirdGangThing]

we get garbage returns and i don't expect that to change this off-season - smarter clubs keep their problems and decisions in house allowing a player's trade value to not become a nuisance

it's a suns thing - we wait and let the relationships sour before we let the players go - ayton shouldn't have been here that last year - the time to trade was after the finals aka after we found out what he was all about

we paid to get crowder and nurk and we paid to get rid of crowder and nurk - draft picks!!!! the nba gets younger and we get dumber - the nba says no more budgetless à la carte rosters and we become the highest paid flop in the league - while giving up draft picks

this isn't any individual player's fault - this is ish's fault - you can put two carburetors on a car but not three - and if you run two carburetors you can't have a basic transmission and you have to strengthen the rear end - but fans still give ish the pass and get mad at the carburetors for being carburetors

we're stuck now - and barring some magical inspirational movie worthy turn around this season - we're gonna be stuck for a while - the words no car owner wants to hear - "we can't fix it"

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not so sure. Keep in mind we lost 11 of the last 16 games Nurk played in.

I think Nurkic always being a risk for injury may have been the thinking. I think he got caught in us trying to establish a multi team trade for KD, Beal, etc, and then they finally just moved him to be done with him. They then brought in a cheaper guy. I think it was all about slipping out of the second apron in the off season. That's the only logical reason. Now watch them stay above the second apron! LOL!

I was in the camp to play him to help us win. There were a couple teams he would have actually been able to take advantage of on the offensive end. IDK, he was turning the ball over so much and was a zero defensive presence this season, maybe they actually moved onto Plumlee instead.

Ayton was terrible at the end and disappeared all the time. When Nurk was actually playing well I think he replaced Ayton just fine. For some reason the dude just went AWOL towards the end of the season Ayton style, and it continued to this season.

The Suns have downgraded the center position twice with the trades of Ayton and Nurkic. Then, apparently it's supposed to be their fault. And it even cost the Suns a first round pick to trade Nurkic. Both were bad trades.

Crowder is another player that didn't fit the Suns mold.

Maybe the ownership, GM and coaches need to look in the mirror because the Suns are not better off.

 

[Suns_fan69]

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