Suns and Spurs

[sunsfn]

Good chance for a win if Duncan does not play.

If Duncan does not play, I will be disapointed if we lose.

 

[slinslin]

Down 16 in the 2nd

Marion 2-7 3 turnovers

Suns shoot 38% and allow the Spurs 58%...

 

[slinslin]

Jake Voshkul can't guard anyone. The only thing he does his raise his arms and stand there.

 

[slinslin]

d'Antoni can't coach anything but some of his motion offense.

Spurs aren't a good offensive team even with Duncan and they are on pace to score 110 on us like almost any other team.

And they get easy shots all the time.

 

[slinslin]

Also we are blown out by Parker, Rose and Nesterovic and where are Lampe and McDyess?

Lampe couldn't really do worse than Voshkul. Voshkul really has no talent, he is just a hard worker but nothing else. And of course he can lead the league in fouls.


Eisley
Voshkul
White

And maybe Jacobsen/Johnson if the offer is right , or Marion.

At least Voshkul shouldn't be more than a 3rd string center and Jacobsen should be an utility player.
White is a backup at best and Eisley needs to be locked away on the IR.

 

[Chaplin]

Would you just settle down? This whining and complaining is bordering on ridiculous--because tomorrow you'll just be praising the fact that we'll have a high draft pick.

 

[slinslin]

I wouldn't complain if we were losing by this much to a good team and playing the guys who need playing time.

But we aren't until the 4th quarter , we were playing the usual guys and the Spurs without Duncan aren't really a good team.

At some point you have to see progress.

The Suns won 3 of their last 4. Either you tank or you don't.

Lampe is no worse than Voshkul.

 

[Cheesebeef]

anyone notice that since Amare re-asserted himself Joe Johnson in the last 9 games has been . . . Joe Johnson again - 57/149 field goals - 37 percent shooting - what goes on inside this guy's head - the talent is obviously there - as was demonstrated on that run he had - but once again - at least offensively - it seems like we're getting 3 bad games and then a good one - and once again, I think this game should demonstrate just how far this team still has to come in this league and how much a player like Kobe would instantly cure a multitude of ills.

I'd really like to see more consistency out of Johnson for the rest of the season - he's had enough to become reintergrated with Stoudemire's re-appearance - he needs to start producing again - there's no looking over his shoulder and he's still getting plenty of shots - I want to see something from this kid - otherwise he could be trade bait in order to get a Kobe or McGrady along with some other valuables.

 

[SweetD]

very hard game to watch tonight, but I did like seeing Lampe in there. Zarko played well except for the few bad shots he took.

 

[Forrestham]

I didnt get to see the game. Saw Lamp played 14 minutes and got 8 pts. How did he look. Isnt it time to play him 25 minutes a game? At this point what do we have to lose. If he cant cut it we get more ping pong balls

 

[slinslin]

Yeah, start Lampe for the rest of the season.

He probably will do a lot better than Voshkul after a few games if not immediately.

 

[sly fly]

Here's what I saw:

- The Spurs played great. They would have beaten most teams tonight. Popovich has a system. And, the players buy into it. Just look at Hedo Turkoglu & Rasho.

- Tony Parker is a flat-out stud. Quick as hell. Can beat you off the dribble at any moment. Gets into the lane and creates havoc every minute he's on the floor.

- Malik Rose is a man's man. Not exactly sure why he was burined on the bench for so long. Seems to be a Popovich kind of guy.

- Is it me or does JJ bring himself towards trouble. Instead of trying to find lanes for an open jumper, he just seems to go where the defender(s) is/are. Too much dribbling and one-on-one leads to poor opportunites.

- Zarko. I dunno. Not gonna give up on him. But, is this somebody who's going to make a difference on a contending team? How much can he improve? I'll withhold judgement on him until I see how much he dedicates himself in the weightroom over the summer. He needs a direct hotline to BALCO.

- Lampe. Reminds me of Brad Miller. He looks young out there. I say he'll just begin to hit his stride in about 3 years. Which still makes him a "rookie".

- The Howard Eisley Experiment is over. I don't think I've EVER seen a more selfish player in the NBA. He's always going to find work in this league, because he can score. But, you'll never see him get minutes on a contender. He and Tony Delk should get together for tea sometime.

- Shawn Marion. He's morphed into someone I'm completely unaware of. Strangely, I think John Starks now has a better jumper. (Didn't the "old" Shawn Marion used to be able to finish with the best of 'em?)

- Where was Dice tonight? I still find it odd that he's back with the Suns. Get a good look now, because I think he's gone at 12:01 a.m FAT (Free Agent Time).

- If I had my way, it would be Emeka Okafor or trade if I'm PHX. Not really interested in seeing any more youth on this team. It's time to start surrounding Amare with men.

 

[JS22]

sly, while i dont really agree with some of your points i agree with the last one. If they cant land okafor then they need to trade the pick away for a vet. I dont really have an idea who at this point...but I dont think this team needs another rookie. (plus theyll have one in vujanic coming over next season)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree with some of them.

Rose hasn't been buried. He got a 6 year deal from them 2 summers ago, and plays a good amount of time. However, he gets into fights with Pop. often, and that resulted in him being in the doghouse for a bit this season.

Parker sounded good tonight (only caught the game on radio). However, he will always be abused by stronger guards, a la Marbury. Barbosa isn't exactly a strong defender either. I would say he is top 10 right now, and might break top 5 in his career. I wouldn't call him a stud though.

JJ has the ability to split the defenders. He can usually blow right by them. Since he has those abilities, I would rather him drive towards the hoop instead of take a 15 footer. He will have a better shot inside, or he will get fouled.

Zarko will be able to play on a championship team because he knows how to play the game. Before the injury, he showed great offensive instincts. He moves without the ball, and is a great passer. Not to mention an above average rebounder. D'Anotni said he is one of the best weapons on offense the team has, and I think that is pretty accurate. Once him confidence comes back, he will be good enough to warrant regular minutes.

Lampe's prediction sounds about right.

I hate Howard Eisley.

Dice will not be gone at 12:01 FTA. There just wont be that much interest in him. I will say it is 50/50 he signs someone else, although it wont be within the first wave of FA signings.


Like I said, I wasn't able to watch the game, but one thing I noticed about Marion lately is he is cutting to the hole a lot more. If he continues to do that, I will be ecstatic.


I am all for Okafor as well.

 

[George O'Brien]

I watched the game on tape and already knew the final score. I knew in advance that the Spurs shot well, moved the ball, and played defense but watching was painful. It is a difficult combination to beat and the Suns were not up to it.

After the game D'Antoni complained about the Suns energy, but they always look lifeless when teams are hitting their outside shots. For a variety of reasons the Suns do not play opponents tight on the perimeter and so good shooting teams just kill them (the Spurs hit 46% of their 3's)

It is clear that JJ is not going to score a lot when he gets the opponent's best defender plus double teaming when he gets into the paint. In spite of that, he had several balls rim out that should have gone in. He has not gone back to the way he was early in the season when he was just shooting and missing outside shots.

Lampe looked pretty good. In 11 minutes, he shot 4 of 6, grabbed 3 rebounds, and blocked a shot. He made a very impressive pass to Carbakapa for an easy score. He got beat a couple of times on defense, but he looked better than Voskuhl who looked awful.

Cabakapa looked pretty good after not playing well since his injury. He hit 6 of 11 in spite of taking some terrible shots. He looked slow on defense, but then so did the rest of the Suns.

Barbosa did not shoot well, 1 of 6 but he did grab 7 rebounds. He had a lot of trouble playing Parker, but Eisley was worse.

The good thing about this game was that if the team is going to lose, at least they can give Lampe and Carbakapa some minutes.

 

[Yuma]

Watching Lampe tonight was different than other nights. Tonight he showed flashes of what the coaches and media were saying about him being able to play. The times I saw him get beat on defense was when he switched or went to play help defense. You have to love his energy, but he is not used to playing NBA defense yet. He did make some guys miss a couple shots. He slowed down on his shot tonight and you could see he has a nice touch when he takes his time to shoot. No doubt, with more learning, he WILL be our starting center. He has more skills, and shooting ability than our other guys. I can see him suplanting Jake next season. He needs some more playing time. They showed a graphic tonight showing he is the second youngest guy in the NBA behind Darko.

 

[Joe Mama]

This San Antonio team has beaten three of their last four opponents without Tim Duncan. That includes what was basically a blowout against Dallas yesterday. That said, last night's game was definitely a step in the wrong direction. Forget about the "energy" excuse. The Suns showed no more than no less energy than usual. They lost because San Antonio played excellent defense while the Suns defense was horrible.

Defensively San Antonio's perimeter players were free to play physical and aggressive defense because they know they have a 7 ft. center and a short but widebodied power forward waiting in the lane. Since the Phoenix Suns frontcourt poses absolutely no threat when they are more than 5 ft. from the basket San Antonio's frontcourt just packed the middle. There perimeter players usually had a hand in the face of anybody shooting the ball for the Suns. I'm not sure the Suns made more than a handful of outside shots the entire game. Lastly, the referees have always allowed a lot of contact, grabbing, etc. from the San Antonio Spurs. I think JJ and Shawn Marion in particular have got to get better at taking the contact overreacting to it to get the attention of the referees.

I like Jake Voskuhl, but for the most part I agree with slin about him. He is a backup center and nothing more. Defensively he is just nonexistent. He practices what I call the "stick 'em up" defense. He always looks like he's got the gun pointed at him. The Suns could not stop Parker or Ginobili from getting into the lane mostly because they played over aggressively on the perimeter instead of forcing those guys to beat them from outside. Instead the Suns were chasing film around leaving open the two San Antonio Spurs that really do beat you from outside, Bruce Bowen and Turkoglu. The Phoenix Suns centers and power forwards were constantly out of position because they were jumping out to stop the penetration. Rasho showed how valuable a true center who can make an outside shot can be to an offense.

I just want to see the Phoenix Suns play a responsible man-to-man defense. Force the perimeter players to beat them from outside instead of allowing them to penetrate and break down the already questionable interior defense. I know it's a dream, but I really wish there was someone to get rid of Howard Eiseley this summer.

Joe Mama

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

i wish New Yorkers were a little more patient.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
This San Antonio team has beaten three of their last four opponents without Tim Duncan. That includes what was basically a blowout against Dallas yesterday. That said, last night's game was definitely a step in the wrong direction. Forget about the "energy" excuse. The Suns showed no more than no less energy than usual. They lost because San Antonio played excellent defense while the Suns defense was horrible.

Defensively San Antonio's perimeter players were free to play physical and aggressive defense because they know they have a 7 ft. center and a short but widebodied power forward waiting in the lane. Since the Phoenix Suns frontcourt poses absolutely no threat when they are more than 5 ft. from the basket San Antonio's frontcourt just packed the middle. There perimeter players usually had a hand in the face of anybody shooting the ball for the Suns. I'm not sure the Suns made more than a handful of outside shots the entire game. Lastly, the referees have always allowed a lot of contact, grabbing, etc. from the San Antonio Spurs. I think JJ and Shawn Marion in particular have got to get better at taking the contact overreacting to it to get the attention of the referees.

I like Jake Voskuhl, but for the most part I agree with slin about him. He is a backup center and nothing more. Defensively he is just nonexistent. He practices what I call the "stick 'em up" defense. He always looks like he's got the gun pointed at him. The Suns could not stop Parker or Ginobili from getting into the lane mostly because they played over aggressively on the perimeter instead of forcing those guys to beat them from outside. Instead the Suns were chasing film around leaving open the two San Antonio Spurs that really do beat you from outside, Bruce Bowen and Turkoglu. The Phoenix Suns centers and power forwards were constantly out of position because they were jumping out to stop the penetration. Rasho showed how valuable a true center who can make an outside shot can be to an offense.

I just want to see the Phoenix Suns play a responsible man-to-man defense. Force the perimeter players to beat them from outside instead of allowing them to penetrate and break down the already questionable interior defense. I know it's a dream, but I really wish there was someone to get rid of Howard Eiseley this summer.

Joe Mama

I agree completely.

If Eisely continues to play like he did last night, he will simply be cut and the Suns wil eat the rest of his contract. The Suns were still in the game when he came in the first time and he did an awful job on Parker and the Suns offense just ground to a halt.

It was strange how Voskuhl came off possibly his best game of the season against the Nets to play one of his worst against the Spurs. I complain about Jake pressing (and fouling) guards out on the perimeter, but when Rasho was outside Jake was never within 15 feet of him. As slow as White is, he did a better job of chasing Rasho than Jake did.

BTW, Rasho looks vastly better than he did at the start of the season and last season. When the Spurs signed him I expected he could score, but he had not impressed me with his defense (he was playing on the Wolves when Amare had his monster game a year ago). I looked at his stats and his rebounding is up by 1.4 boards over last year - on a team that includes Duncan.

Rasho makes a pretty good case for having patience. He came into the league in 1998 and he did not start playing well until his fourth year. This is his sixth season and he is finally playing at a reasonably high level.

I was very encouraged by Lampe's performance. It wasn't the shooting (we knew he could shoot), it was the 3 rebounds and the blocked shot in 11 minutes. I can't remember the last time Voskuhl blocked a shot, while Lampe caused the Spurs problems when they tried to shoot over him.

I think Lampe will be productive much more quickly than Rasho. Lampe is already bigger and is more athletic. What is most encouraging is that according to the TV guys he is willing to mix it up with White in practice. Euro players tend to avoid contact and take a while to become tough enough to play inside. If Lampe can play the physical game, he will make an impact.

Considering how the Suns aren't going anywhere, I would not mind starting Lampe and give him as much experience as he can handle. Let him make his mistakes now when all it does is give the Suns a few more ping pong balls.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

I was very encouraged by Lampe's performance. It wasn't the shooting (we knew he could shoot), it was the 3 rebounds and the blocked shot in 11 minutes. I can't remember the last time Voskuhl blocked a shot, while Lampe caused the Spurs problems when they tried to shoot over him.

I think Lampe will be productive much more quickly than Rasho. Lampe is already bigger and is more athletic. What is most encouraging is that according to the TV guys he is willing to mix it up with White in practice. Euro players tend to avoid contact and take a while to become tough enough to play inside. If Lampe can play the physical game, he will make an impact.

Considering how the Suns aren't going anywhere, I would not mind starting Lampe and give him as much experience as he can handle. Let him make his mistakes now when all it does is give the Suns a few more ping pong balls.

Jahidi White? I just read a little blurb on HoopsHype saying that he (Lampe) and Amare Stoudemire went face-to-face in practice recently. It said the confrontation ended with an openhanded smack across the face from Amare. It was reported in the New York daily News, but the link on HoopsHype didn't take me to the article. It had one of the Phoenix Suns players quoted as saying something like, " Amare is crazy." It also said that the confrontation made the players respect land be for his toughness.

Joe Mama

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

You think that explains JJ and Marion's decline.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
You think that explains JJ and Marion's decline.

Marion looked a lot more agressive against the Spurs although he did regress to take some threes, but he actually attacked hard a few times.

In the off season, the Suns are going to have to make Marion change the mechanics of his outside shot. It is more of a set shot that has a low starting point, is slow to release, and requires he be absolutely still when the shot is being taken. If changing the motion works for Casey who went from 31% for three last year to 43% this year, why not Marion?

JJ's problem is simple - opponents are keying on stopping him. Earlier he was just another guy named Joe and Shawn probably hed their #1 defender. Now Joe gets their top defender and double teams. As lot as Joe keeps making the passes for assists, he will be invaluable, but it would be nice if he would hit more of those shots that are rimming out right now.

I don't see any evidence that JJ is avoiding contact, although I think he may too predictable on the direction he takes on his drives. If the Suns could force opponents to pull out their centers on defense, JJ would do even better.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien


JJ's problem is simple - opponents are keying on stopping him. Earlier he was just another guy named Joe and Shawn probably hed their #1 defender. Now Joe gets their top defender and double teams. As lot as Joe keeps making the passes for assists, he will be invaluable, but it would be nice if he would hit more of those shots that are rimming out right now.

I don't see any evidence that JJ is avoiding contact, although I think he may too predictable on the direction he takes on his drives. If the Suns could force opponents to pull out their centers on defense, JJ would do even better.

The problem with JJ is that it's a Catch-22. He doesn't play that well when he's keyed on. But when he isn't, he doesn't play that well either--as evidenced before Stephon Marbury was traded.

Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like that month or so of great play by JJ was a fluke.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
The problem with JJ is that it's a Catch-22. He doesn't play that well when he's keyed on. But when he isn't, he doesn't play that well either--as evidenced before Stephon Marbury was traded.

Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like that month or so of great play by JJ was a fluke.

The only part of JJ's play that is down is his shooting percentage. His rebounding is up, assists are up, and his defense seems to be more consistent. Right now he is not getting the same kind of open looks that he was getting during his streak, but he seems to be doing OK when he is open.

I think JJ would benefit from being told that he does not have to score and if he is double teamed to simply pass. I think he will start doing better as teams begin to double Amare every play.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The only part of JJ's play that is down is his shooting percentage. His rebounding is up, assists are up, and his defense seems to be more consistent. Right now he is not getting the same kind of open looks that he was getting during his streak, but he seems to be doing OK when he is open.

I think JJ would benefit from being told that he does not have to score and if he is double teamed to simply pass. I think he will start doing better as teams begin to double Amare every play.

Unfortunately, with this team as it stands, he'll have to score in order for us to win.