Suns deal for several new players

arthurracoon

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Suns deal for several new players
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
http://www.aztrib.com/index.php?sty=10749

The Suns have made a substantial money-saving trade, sending center Jake Tsakalidis and forward Bo Outlaw to Memphis for guard Brevin Knight, center Cezary Trybanski and forward Robert Archibald.

In a separate deal, the Suns acquired DeMarr Johnson, a free agent who spent last season on the Atlanta Hawks' injured list after being involved in a life-threatening car accident.

The major deal Monday involved two players who got regular playing time in recent seasons: the high-energy Outlaw and the lumbering Tsakalidis. The major reason for the deal is that the Suns are losing money, and Outlaw has two years and about $13 million left on his contract.

The trade will save the Suns about $2 million for this season, including about $1 million in the NBA's dollar for-dollar-luxury tax on high-payroll teams, Suns president Bryan Colangelo indicated.

Assuming the break-even point for NBA teams is roughly the estimated luxury-tax threshold of $55 million-$56, the Suns, the Suns could still lose about $20 million for this season.

But the trade frees up about $6.5 million that would have gone to Outlaw in 2004-05. And that, along with the expiration of Tom Gugliotta's heavy contract after this season, could get the Suns under the luxury-tax threshold in '04-05, Colangelo indicated.

Yet in giving Outlaw up, the Suns are losing one of the better bench players in the NBA. His frenzied playing style had made him a fan favorite among Suns fans.

By contrast, "Big Jake" has been a work in progress ever since he joined the Suns out of the former Soviet Republic of Georgia. He has battled injuries in his three years with the Suns and generally failed to play at more than a backup's level.

Often, he seemed to slow to keep up with the young, athletic Suns.
Tsakalidis had one year left on his rookie-scale contract. The Suns had planned to decide on whether to offer him a new contract after the current training camp ended.

The trade would seem to weaken the Suns' bench at the front-line positions.
The Suns are hoping this isn't the case. They could be right if rookie Zarko Cabarkapa, veteran Tom Gugliotta and young center Jake Voskuhl — the three players whose minutes figure to increase — can come through.

"We're excited about Zarko," Colangelo said about first-round draft pick from Serbia-Montenegro, who at times dazzled the Utah-based league for young players in July.

And after watching Gugliotta work out the past month, "It was evident he is healthy and able to contribute," Colangelo said.

The Suns plan to rotate starting centers, with graybeard Scott Williams and Voskuhl usually getting the call, coach Frank Johnson indicated.

"We've really got to take it easy on Scott," Johnson said.

Voskuhl, who blossomed last season, praised the outgoing players, saying, "It's tough losing two guys like that. They were great to be around.

"This is an organization that knows what it's dong. . .They're not here to lose money. . . But this is the tough part of the business."

But, as in the past, the Suns often will use three forwards along the front line, with the rising Amare Stoudemire often playing the role of a nominal center, flanked by a combination of Shawn Marion, Cabarkapa or Gugliotta, Johnson said. Marion and the rising Joe Johnson, normally a guard, also can play the "four" spot in a pinch, the Suns coach said.

In return for Outlaw and Tsakalidis, the Suns are getting Knight, one of the NBA's better backup point guards, who is in the final year of a contract that pays him about $5 million.

Knight, however, is coming off a disappointing, injury filled season. If he can stay healthy, he could take the heat off starter Stephon Marbury, one of the NBA' s most heavily used players, and the Suns could bring along rookie Leandro Barbosa slowly, the Suns indicated.

Barbosa struggled in summer-league action in Utah. In Trybanski, the Suns appear to be getting the latest in a long line of journeyman centers. He is 7-foot-2 and is the first Polish player to compete in the NBA. He is in the second-year of a three-year deal that pays him about $2 million this season.

"We don't know a whole lot about him," Colangelo said. "But we know he's 7-2, is athletic and can shoot."

In Archibald, they are getting a second-year forward out of Illinois, who is a minimum contract player who spent most of last season on the injured list.

"He's tough and nasty," Colangelo said.

As for DeMarr Johnson, "He needs to get stronger, but he can make plays," Frank Johnson said.

The Suns now have 15 players under contract; all but DeMarr Johnson's is guaranteed. Only 12 will make the Opening Night active roster.
 

elindholm

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But the trade frees up about $6.5 million that would have gone to Outlaw in 2004-05.

This is incorrect. Outlaw's salary for 2004-05 was to be $5.36 million (HoopsHype), plus now the Suns have to pay Trybanski. The savings will be about $3.6 million, less any luxury tax considerations.

"We don't know a whole lot about (Trybanski)," Colangelo said. "But we know he's 7-2, is athletic and can shoot."

Oh, great. So it isn't that they even thought they saw hidden potential in Trybanski. They just wanted to dump Tsakalidis, no matter what the cost. I wonder if Trybanski "can shoot" as well as Dan Langhi can?

And the money saved this season goes to ... DerMarr Johnson. Yeah, that's someone the Suns really need.

I hate this trade.
 

JCSunsfan

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Originally posted by arthurracoon
Suns deal for several new players
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
http://www.aztrib.com/index.php?sty=10749

Tsakalidis had one year left on his rookie-scale contract. The Suns had planned to decide on whether to offer him a new contract after the current training camp ended.


This is the key statement in this article. The Suns determined they were going to decide in THIS training camp about Big Jake's future with the team.

They decided he is not in their future, so rather than just letting him walk next summer, they used him now to clear Bo's contract off the books.

Amare's rise as our low post offensive threat, and Jake's inability to run the floor or hit the 15 footer with consistency is probably what sealed his fate with the Suns.

They might also have determined that he is going to be a chronic injury problem. As big a guy as he is, back problems don't usually go away for long, even with surgery.
 

Chaplin

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Of course, if Big Jake wants, he can come back here next summer and get signed for the minimum... :D
 

slinslin

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Originally posted by elindholm

Oh, great. So it isn't that they even thought they saw hidden potential in Trybanski. They just wanted to dump Tsakalidis, no matter what the cost. I wonder if Trybanski "can shoot" as well as Dan Langhi can?

And the money saved this season goes to ... DerMarr Johnson. Yeah, that's someone the Suns really need.


Maybe Memphis didn't want to just hand us Brevin Knights expiring contract for Bo Outlaw's bad contract?

If the Suns didn't dump Tsakalidis they would have saved actually even more next season unless they resigned Big Jake.
 

elindholm

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Maybe Memphis didn't want to just hand us Brevin Knights expiring contract for Bo Outlaw's bad contract?

The difference between Knight's glorious contract and Outlaw's "bad" one is one year and about $6 million. Big deal. Outlaw's contract was "expiring" too, just not right away.
 

JCSunsfan

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Originally posted by Chaplin
Of course, if Big Jake wants, he can come back here next summer and get signed for the minimum... :D

Maybe that's the plan!

We could bring him in and take him to a Coyotes game in order to recruit him.

We keep any Memphis players that come to get him, held up outside the stadium.

Then we brow beat him and reduce him to tears, before he finally breaks down and signs on the dotted line.

It could work.
 

slinslin

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Originally posted by elindholm
Maybe Memphis didn't want to just hand us Brevin Knights expiring contract for Bo Outlaw's bad contract?

The difference between Knight's glorious contract and Outlaw's "bad" one is one year and about $6 million. Big deal. Outlaw's contract was "expiring" too, just not right away.

6M$ is a big difference that is not even considering that there is the luxury tax and that the Suns could possibly get a much much better player than Outlaw for much cheaper next offseason.

Would you rather have 5M$ Knight this season than 6M$ Outlaw? I would.

Would you rather have 2-4M$ MLE next season than 5M$ Outlaw? I would.

And where does it say that the Suns spend most of their saved money on DeMarr Johnson? I didn't see where it said that his contract was guaranteed although it would make me happy.

And Johnson would only get a small part of what the Suns are saving.
 

JCSunsfan

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On a positive note. Channel 12 news last night showed some footage of the Suns training camp at the Coliseum.

Amare was playing wo a shirt. The guy has added significant upper body bulk, and it is all muscle. He was really cut. He's got that body builder type V-shaped torso.

They also showed footage of him sinking 15 footers along the baseline, one right after another.
 

elindholm

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Would you rather have 5M$ Knight this season than 6M$ Outlaw? I would.

No. Neither is going to play much unless someone ahead of them gets injured, so their basketball contribution is basically the same: zero. I think Outlaw's positive influence is worth the extra $1 million.

And actually, I do think that Outlaw would have gotten 10-15 minutes per game next season, one way or another, which is more than Knight will get. But that's pure speculation, so I will leave that out of the argument.

Would you rather have 2-4M$ MLE next season than 5M$ Outlaw? I would.

Yes, I would too. But if the point of this trade is to save money, the Suns can't afford to sign anyone for even such a modest deal as $6 million over three years. Because that's already more than the total savings of the trade.
 

JCSunsfan

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Well, the company line is that this is about FLEXIBILITY which I interpret as money in hand to sign FA's, if they see someone out there that they really want.

Certainly cap savings is part of the consideration, but the Suns have also proven that they will spend money if there is someone that they want.
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by elindholm
But the trade frees up about $6.5 million that would have gone to Outlaw in 2004-05.

This is incorrect. Outlaw's salary for 2004-05 was to be $5.36 million (HoopsHype), plus now the Suns have to pay Trybanski. The savings will be about $3.6 million, less any luxury tax considerations.


That's right. I believe Bo Outlaw's salary for next season is around $5.5 million. They will have to pay Trybanski, but they will also lose Archibald's contract (I'm surprised that's guaranteed this season). Savings should be about $4 million. Of course if the Suns are still in the luxury tax range that will save them $8 million actually.

"We don't know a whole lot about (Trybanski)," Colangelo said. "But we know he's 7-2, is athletic and can shoot."

Originally posted by elindholm Oh, great. So it isn't that they even thought they saw hidden potential in Trybanski. They just wanted to dump Tsakalidis, no matter what the cost. I wonder if Trybanski "can shoot" as well as Dan Langhi can?

And the money saved this season goes to ... DerMarr Johnson. Yeah, that's someone the Suns really need.

I hate this trade.

No, they wanted to dump Bo Outlaw's contract. It took Jake Tsakalidis to get it done. Johnson's contract is not guaranteed. The only way he will make the roster is if he shows a whole lot in training camp and the preseason.

Joe Mama
 

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