Suns fire McD

[Willie D]

^-- to be clear:

1. The "media" is not smart enough to make this stuff up out of whole cloth. The sunS don't warrant that kind of attention. If this were the Lakers or Knicks, I'd be more inclined to believe. But a big NAH.
2. The "national" media has been administering a healthy butt spanking to the "local" media over many things, including our homer hopes for both the Cardinales and Los Soles. KTAR spent the better part of the summer extolling how much better the sunS would be, while the national media pumped the brakes on that one.
3. When Barkley starts off an interview with, "What in the hell are you people doing out there?" you know something is amiss.

Does anyone really think a UFA is gonna look at this hot mess of management, chronic losing, and tanking and say, "Yep, that's where I want to be." Ya think Thomas or Bledsoe are gonna come back and save the team? If you do, I have some land to sell you 5 miles west of LAX.

 

[Chaplin]

^-- to be clear:

1. The "media" is not smart enough to make this stuff up out of whole cloth. The sunS don't warrant that kind of attention. If this were the Lakers or Knicks, I'd be more inclined to believe. But a big NAH.
2. The "national" media has been administering a healthy butt spanking to the "local" media over many things, including our homer hopes for both the Cardinales and Los Soles. KTAR spent the better part of the summer extolling how much better the sunS would be, while the national media pumped the brakes on that one.
3. When Barkley starts off an interview with, "What in the hell are you people doing out there?" you know something is amiss.

Does anyone really think a UFA is gonna look at this hot mess of management, chronic losing, and tanking and say, "Yep, that's where I want to be." Ya think Thomas or Bledsoe are gonna come back and save the team? If you do, I have some land to sell you 5 miles west of LAX.

Come on. I know we're dysfunctional, but you're seriously talking about Barkley's opinion?

And who thinks Thomas or Bledsoe are coming back??

You might as well call us all stupid, newbie, since you're implying it anyway.

EDIT: Actually, you're not a newbie at all. But you could possibly be King of the Lurkers.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

On the local radio yesterday Barkley named two of his sources publicly on Sarver. Grant Hill and Steve Kerr. Both told Barkley the same thing, that Sarver is involved in everything and makes the GM and Coaches jobs impossible because he undermines their authority.

That's not Barkley opinion. That is Barkley citing two reputable people who have been with the Suns organization with specific commentary. And Barkley isnt saying it because he didn't get a job. He said he wouldn't take a job here with Sarver as he is now.

 

[Chaplin]

On the local radio yesterday Barkley named two of his sources publicly on Sarver. Grant Hill and Steve Kerr. Both told Barkley the same thing, that Sarver is involved in everything and makes the GM and Coaches jobs impossible because he undermines their authority.

That's not Barkley opinion. That is Barkley citing two reputable people who have been with the Suns organization with specific commentary. And Barkley isnt saying it because he didn't get a job. He said he wouldn't take a job here with Sarver as he is now.

Well, both those guys are from over 5 years ago. Don't you think it's at least possible that the theory that he stepped back a bit with the hiring of McD holds water?

I mean, Kerr and Grant Hill? Kerr left the organization 8 years ago, and Grant 6 years ago. Well before Ryan was even hired.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Except that he mentioned that it's gotten worse over the last 2 years.

And those weren't his only sources was just the ones he was going to name. Which says people working with in the organization now.

Same with Wojonowski when he says that he has multiple Executives telling him things. He's not going to name them because in theory they have to deal with the Suns now

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And when you try to say this is just rumors we know it's fact when it comes to Doncic.

So there is nothing pointing to some bias or sensationalism. There are multiple sources saying the same thing that is backed up by reports from months ago and it all cross references

 

[Town Drunk]

And when you try to say this is just rumors we know it's fact when it comes to Doncic.

So there is nothing point is some bias or sensationalism. There are multiple sources saying the same thing that is backed up by reports from months ago and it all cross references

Yeah it’s pretty clear Sarver hasn’t improved in the meddling department. What a train wreck.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I called that ownership and management were not aligned back during the draft process when Sarver was flying out repeatedly to meet with Doncic and his handlers without Suns management. Of course the same people saying "This is just overblown media" were saying the same thing then as well.

However, that behavior EXACTLY matches what has been reported by a half dozen sources now that Sarver meets with agents without his management team.

I am certain there was a division between Ayton and Doncic internally. Based on words and actions it seems like McDonough wanted Ayton and Sarver wanted Doncic.

Wanting Doncic is only further proven by forcing a trade for another wing in Bridges.


The level of roasting Sarver is getting right now locally is being vetted out on multiple levels and multiple sources.

Cheese has it right that it is possible that we have enough talent to overcome this level of organizational incompetence but it isn't likely.

If Sarver wanted Doncic than why didn't we draft Doncic? Seems to me that if he always forces what he wants than he would have chosen to take Doncic and not Ayton.

 

[Raindog]

And what is the evidence that Sarver wanted Doncic? That he flew to watch him play a couple of games? I'm not seeing that as any definitive proof.

As I recall, the conventional thinking at the time was Sarver wanted Ayton because of the local connection, and it was McD who was more considering the other prospects.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If Sarver wanted Doncic than why didn't we draft Doncic? Seems to me that if he always forces what he wants than he would have chosen to take Doncic and not Ayton.

Its possible that Sarver talks and then McD talked. That would explain a lot of things, even going back to Dragic. Sarver made promises that McD could not or would not keep.

I find it hard to believe that Sarver wanted Doncic and McD wanted Ayton. It might have been the other way round. If Sarver wanted Doncic, he would be mum about it at the moment, because it is very clear we made the right choice. I do not think Doncic is looking that special. He will be a good NBA player, but Ayton is special.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

BTW for those who think that the timing of this was "curious"

I will submit that Friday was the last day to get your Full Season and Half Season packages intact. After that you can buy them but it is piecemeal.

I know this because I am looking at buying tickets right now and that was the cutoff date. So either they waited to not spook people off from buying or the numbers came in too low again.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And what is the evidence that Sarver wanted Doncic? That he flew to watch him play a couple of games? I'm not seeing that as any definitive proof.

As I recall, the conventional thinking at the time was Sarver wanted Ayton because of the local connection, and it was McD who was more considering the other prospects.

This. I would even add that if Sarver wanted Ayton and McD wanted Doncic than maybe Sarver went to go watch Doncic live in order to see if he could see what McD was seeing. Either way I suspect both of them were sold on Ayton once they worked him out.

 

[SirStefan32]

Doesn't Sarver have business dealings in Spain, like 30 miles from where he saw Doncic?
Also, if I were an owner, I'd want to see the potential top pick myself, especially if business is taking me 30 miles away.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And what is the evidence that Sarver wanted Doncic? That he flew to watch him play a couple of games? I'm not seeing that as any definitive proof.

As I recall, the conventional thinking at the time was Sarver wanted Ayton because of the local connection, and it was McD who was more considering the other prospects.

Well again I broke this down big time at the time because there were two very different behaviors happening.

#1. McDonough was talking up the center position and PG position as what he wanted to address. He was down playing Doncic. Now it comes out that he tried to trade up to get a PG so check and check these statements / actions support each other.


#2. At the same time, Sarver made multiple trips to see / meet with Doncic without McDonough, which would mirror the reports that Sarver meets with agents without his management team. So again actions and words are congruous


These both seemed goofy after we won the lottery. Why is the owner working on his own and basically around the media (remember it was a local media person who spotted Sarver there. No one in the local media knew it was going on)

Which led to one of three possibilities.

#1 Organizational dysfunction - This is now proven to be the reason

#2. Trade down

#3. Trade up to get both


Sarver's actions speak for themselves.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Doesn't Sarver have business dealings in Spain, like 30 miles from where he saw Doncic?
Also, if I were an owner, I'd want to see the potential top pick myself, especially if business is taking me 30 miles away.

Yes this was the excuse given at the time, even though everyone was saying how unusual it would be to meet without your GM (since you had no coach).

But it wasn't a random act. It supports the statements given by unnamed agents that Sarver meets with them without management.

That is undermining the authority of your GM.

 

[Willie D]

And who thinks Thomas or Bledsoe are coming back??

Dude, it was a joke, an extreme example of the limited number of UFAs who will be available at the end of this year.

Do you really think Kyrie is even remotely looking towards Phoenix? Boston is gonna treat him like a deity. He's the most prominent PG in the upcoming UFA circus. How about Boogie Cousins? Ya wanna put up with that cat? Didn't they unload Bledsoe for the same reasons Sacto unloaded Boogie?

Why are UFAs not willing to come here any more? Look at management. I've been watching the sunS since they played at the Coliseum, and Kyle Macy was the starting point guard. I want them to succeed just like everyone else. But for all the coaches, GMs, upper management and bad picks, one thing remains constant: The Sarverfish

Maybe Steve Nash & Jason Kidd are available to do a redux of the PG job from the early 90s.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This. I would even add that if Sarver wanted Ayton and McD wanted Doncic than maybe Sarver went to go watch Doncic live in order to see if he could see what McD was seeing. Either way I suspect both of them were sold on Ayton once they worked him out.

Yes you could say that McDonough loved Doncic except he clearly stated multiple times that he liked Ayton.

So that doesn't add up again.

There is no way to shove this square peg and make it round

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And again I will go right back to the timing. Complete Season Ticket sales finalized and the metric wasn't made and that was the final straw.

I mean its not like Sarver has ever made decisions based on money. It's not like he literally talked about the organization reaching a plateau (and the only plateau established after Friday was ticket sales)

 

[Chaplin]

And again I will go right back to the timing. Complete Season Ticket sales finalized and the metric wasn't made and that was the final straw.

I mean its not like Sarver has ever made decisions based on money. It's not like he literally talked about the organization reaching a plateau (and the only plateau established after Friday was ticket sales)

We all hate Sarver, but McD was a lost cause.

 

[BC867]

Just seems like another dirt-cheap, unexperienced GM who Sarver can berate from behind while he's on the phone with other front offices.

Hope to be proven wrong, but track record on this shows that will be highly unlikely.

Bingo! It is interesting that it is now being documented that Sarver has no business ethics and is like a bull in a china shop. Something that ASFN/Suns fans already know.

 

[BC867]

Anyway I can't be bothered by the Sarver bashing articles anymore. Bring some actual hard evidence and real sources on the meddling or ****. To me all that stuff is just rehashing old storylines, produce cheap stories with no effort that nobody will challenge anyway.

Even if Sarver repeats the cycle and names still another inexperienced GM? One whom he has already established control over?

I maintain that if Jones gets the permanent GM job under those circumstances, it will make it clear, once again, that Sarver hires yes-men. And that three years from now, we'll be witnessing the same old-same old. Look at how many GM's we have gone through under Sarver. And now it appears that he will buy himself another three years to exercise his narcissistic behavior.

Robert Sarver is George Steinbrenner, but pocketing his millions and not buying championships. The NBA and San Diego Clippers finally got rid of Donald Sterling and what are they now? The Los Angeles Clippers playing in the Lakers' arena, where they can look up to the rafters and see the Lakers retired numbers in their "home court".

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yes this was the excuse given at the time, even though everyone was saying how unusual it would be to meet without your GM (since you had no coach).

But it wasn't a random act. It supports the statements given by unnamed agents that Sarver meets with them without management.

That is undermining the authority of your GM.

Big jump from watching/scouting to meeting. You are making some huge assumptions. I see nothing wrong with the owner and managing general partner scouting. JColangelo did it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes you could say that McDonough loved Doncic except he clearly stated multiple times that he liked Ayton.

So that doesn't add up again.

There is no way to shove this square peg and make it round

Loving Doncic and liking Ayton aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bingo! It is interesting that it is now being documented that Sarver has no business ethics and is like a bull in a china shop. Something that ASFN/Suns fans already know.

Hmmm. "No business ethics?" That is a huge assumption. Again, departing players ripped on McD, not Sarver. I am not sold on James Jones as a GM, but that final decision is not made I don't think. I do think it is pretty clear that Sarver did not trust, or came to distrust his GM. I don't think McD was as bad as the rest of you, but I cannot defend his free agency skills. His best signing is Ariza--and we are not even sure about that yet. He made no big time free agent signing.

 

[BC867]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Sarver continues to embarrass the Valley of the Sun with his antics, our team could wind up being the Seattle Super-Sun-ics. (OK. maybe a different name.)

I am not saying it is imminent. But some day ... ya never know.