Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[95pro]

I'm sorry this is a stupid article.

Why not just write an article titled Josh Okogie could be an all star if he shot 55% from 3 and became an excellent ball handler.

Mostly, but I always thought Metu or KBD should be playing instead of Gordon all season.

 

[Proximo]

So what then? I guess they'll have to dump the entire roster. Or is Ishbia just going to give them a stern talking to that they need to "listen better" to the coach?

And then are they going get around to firing James Jones for building a roster that doesn't respond to Frank Vogel's "coaching"? How many days before we start seeing media takes that it isn't Jones' fault either?

Maybe they will end up blaming Kevin Young since he's leaving anyway? Or maybe one of the ballboys, or the receptionist? I guess no one is responsible for that clown show all of the Suns fans had to suffer through this past season.

All this tells me is Wilbon has some kind of relationship with Vogel and likes him as a person, or he didn't watch many games - probably both. Probably just reiterating Barkley's opinion since they are buddies.

Yes the roster is a problem, but Vogel is also clearly a problem I don't care what anyone says. Both need to be changed.

 

[Proximo]

Mostly, but I always thought Metu or KBD should be playing instead of Gordon all season.

Really did you watch any games they played in? They sucked. Tell me one game where either did anything - there was at least 20 where Gordon scored 15 plus.

KBD could have helped some defensively I suppose, Metu not at all.

 

[95pro]

All this tells me is Wilbon has some kind of relationship with Vogel and likes him as a person, or he didn't watch many games - probably both. Probably just reiterating Barkley's opinion since they are buddies.

Yes the roster is a problem, but Vogel is also clearly a problem I don't care what anyone says. Both need to be changed.

Wilbon is a suns fan.

Really did you watch any games they played in? They sucked. Tell me one game where either did anything - there was at least 20 where Gordon scored 15 plus.

KBD could have helped some defensively I suppose, Metu not at all.

Gordon also sucked, aside from getting hot every now and then. There's other to components to playing bigger people, in particular those two had athleticism and height over Gordon. This creates better team defense, the ability for use to run, lob, dunk, attach and draw fouls. And they both have the ability to get hot from 3pt land while providing more than Gordon.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I'm sorry this is a stupid article.

Why not just write an article titled Josh Okogie could be an all star if he shot 55% from 3 and became an excellent ball handler.

Right, but KBD and Yuta had previously shot well from 3, so it's a reasonable postulation that if they shot up to par there'd be a different outlook on the team.

 

[Chaplin]

Wilbon is a suns fan.

Correct, and he lives in the Valley.

Thing is, if you notice, most, if not all, national pundits usually NEVER crap on the coach. It's a strange thing.

 

[Yuma]

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So supposedly one of the knocks going around NBA insiders is the failed attempt by our lesser coaches to develop talent.

 

[Yuma]

Correct, and he lives in the Valley.

Thing is, if you notice, most, if not all, national pundits usually NEVER crap on the coach. It's a strange thing.

It's almost like punching a kid. Who wants to trash Mr. Nice guy Vogel. Way back at the announcement of the hire, Dave Burns was saying why hire a defensive coach when the roster is constructed for all out offense? Thus the Kevin Young over pay that was a bomb imho.

 

[Ronin]

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[Covert Rain]

Sounds like the Suns are considering firing Vogel. So, it's not definite but being considered. Likely Ishbia is letting things cool down.

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[Mainstreet]

There will likely not be an announcement on Frank Vogel tomorrow.

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[Proximo]

Wilbon is a suns fan.



Gordon also sucked, aside from getting hot every now and then. There's other to components to playing bigger people, in particular those two had athleticism and height over Gordon. This creates better team defense, the ability for use to run, lob, dunk, attach and draw fouls. And they both have the ability to get hot from 3pt land while providing more than Gordon.

Wilbon claims to be a fan, but saying Vogel does not need to be fired suggests to me he didn't watch many games - because nearly everyone on this board who did agrees he needs to be fired.

Gordon certainly underperformed my expectations, that said he was 10X the player of either of those jokers.

 

[Proximo]

Sounds like the Suns are considering firing Vogel. So, it's not definite but being considered. Likely Ishbia is letting things cool down.

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It is going to come down to the players if the plan is to mostly run it back.

If the plan is to tear it all down than nobody's opinion but Ishbia's matters.

 

[Proximo]

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Well he's not coming back. I know he wasn't great, but it will be hard to find someone as good that will commit to this crapfest team for the minimum if the plan is to run it back.

 

[Hoop Head]

Correct, and he lives in the Valley.

Thing is, if you notice, most, if not all, national pundits usually NEVER crap on the coach. It's a strange thing.

It's because a number of coaches bounce between the broadcast booth and head coaching gigs. The talking heads have relationships with the coaches since they've worked with a number of them. It would create an awkward environment for Vogel to get fired by the Suns and become a broacaster/analyst for ESPN with a bunch of people who said he should be fired. They're basically looking out for one of their own.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well he's not coming back. I know he wasn't great, but it will be hard to find someone as good that will commit to this crapfest team for the minimum if the plan is to run it back.

Sounds like he is waiting on Vogel or other offseason changes.

 

[Germz249]

The season isn’t over and people are doing these mock trades..

 

[Hoop Head]

The season isn’t over and people are doing these mock trades..

That is an awful deal for the Suns. Why add another SG? Especially one like LaVine who is constantly injured. Maybe it does make sense if you're James Jones though.

 

[Phrazbit]

That is an awful deal for the Suns. Why add another SG? Especially one like LaVine who is constantly injured. Maybe it does make sense if you're James Jones though.

Trade isn't just stupid but it's not even legal. No shot.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I'm not a Frank Vogel supporter, but I understand he wanted a point guard. That is the GM's job, to provide the necessary players.

Well Vogel did have IT and Saben Lee. Both not used like the rest of the bench. Vogel needs to go yesterday

 

[Hoop Head]

Well Vogel did have IT and Saben Lee. Both not used like the rest of the bench. Vogel needs to go yesterday

And Jordan Goodwin for 2/3 of the season.

There were PG options, albeit not great options. When given the opportunity to play those PG's before the end of the year Vogel elected to use Roddy and Okogie as PG's.

I'm not buying he made demands for a PG. It doesn't add up.

 

[Chaplin]

And Jordan Goodwin for 2/3 of the season.

There were PG options, albeit not great options. When given the opportunity to play those PG's before the end of the year Vogel elected to use Roddy and Okogie as PG's.

I'm not buying he made demands for a PG. It doesn't add up.

I haven't agreed with you a lot in the past week, but I do agree with this.

I feel like people are reaching to try to defend Vogel -- they guy was a disaster, but wait! He tried to get a point guard, so maybe he's not so bad!

 

[Covert Rain]

I haven't agreed with you a lot in the past week, but I do agree with this.

I feel like people are reaching to try to defend Vogel -- they guy was a disaster, but wait! He tried to get a point guard, so maybe he's not so bad!

His usage of rotation guys was complete mystery. Keep in mind in an interview he said that Thomas was lighting it up in practice yet he didn't use him?!?! Wait what?!!? Then there was his initial usage of Bol Bol where he was contributing then Bol Bol usage evaporated. That played itself out again with Thaddy. He then experiments with the lineup with Little who had seen no playing time in the PLAYOFFS.

I just don't see how anybody can defend Vogel other than it's true he didn't put together the roster.

 

[95pro]

His usage of rotation guys was complete mystery. Keep in mind in an interview he said that Thomas was lighting it up in practice yet he didn't use him?!?! Wait what?!!? Then there was his initial usage of Bol Bol where he was contributing then Bol Bol usage evaporated. That played itself out again with Thaddy. He then experiments with the lineup with Little who had seen no playing time in the PLAYOFFS.

I just don't see how anybody can defend Vogel other than it's true he didn't put together the roster.

I admit I was fooled by his positivity when he was hired. But it’s just all talk, smoke and mirrors. He tells us what we want to hear. He’s pretty much a scam artist.

 

[Raindog]

I haven't agreed with you a lot in the past week, but I do agree with this.

I feel like people are reaching to try to defend Vogel -- they guy was a disaster, but wait! He tried to get a point guard, so maybe he's not so bad!

Even if he had Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, and John Stockton, Vogel would still be a nitwit... so there's that.