Taking a Round 1 Tight End

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I'm in favor of taking with our R1 pick any player that is truly dominant and who can make plays that will win us games or turn a game around on a dime. A super TE is certainly one to consider. All one has to think of is K boys: Kelce and Kittle. How could we pass on someone like that in our offense. Would make a world of difference and win more games for us. Just think how many 1st downs they get their teams.

On offense besides Pitts, that would be a WR like D. Smith, and a RB like Ettiene or Harris. Anyone one of which can bust a game open and break away for a TD on any given play, or get you a first down when you need it most.

On defense that would be one of the very top 2 or 3 CBs, a true stud DT, a very productive DE/LB/Edge rusher. A stud at DT can save a game via a goal line stand, or change a game by forcing a team to have to rely solely on passing. Any edge rusher can stop a drive with a sack or cause a QB fumble at any time. And of course an all pro CB can always shut down the top WR on the other team, saving a game with an interception or simply keeping the score within reach..

I would always take a game changer first over a position of lesser immediate importance like a OLman, S, or most LBs. These positions are important for consistency throughout the game, but normally won't change the game on a dime.

But like I always say, "What do I know?"

 

[Harry]

I'm in favor of taking with our R1 pick any player that is truly dominant and who can make plays that will win us games or turn a game around on a dime. A super TE is certainly one to consider. All one has to think of is K boys: Kelce and Kittle. How could we pass on someone like that in our offense. Would make a world of difference and win more games for us. Just think how many 1st downs they get their teams.

On offense besides Pitts, that would be a WR like D. Smith, and a RB like Ettiene or Harris. Anyone one of which can bust a game open and break away for a TD on any given play, or get you a first down when you need it most.

On defense that would be one of the very top 2 or 3 CBs, a true stud DT, a very productive DE/LB/Edge rusher. A stud at DT can save a game via a goal line stand, or change a game by forcing a team to have to rely solely on passing. Any edge rusher can stop a drive with a sack or cause a QB fumble at any time. And of course an all pro CB can always shut down the top WR on the other team, saving a game with an interception or simply keeping the score within reach..

I would always take a game changer first over a position of lesser immediate importance like a OLman, S, or most LBs. These positions are important for consistency throughout the game, but normally won't change the game on a dime.

But like I always say, "What do I know?"

This goes precisely to my point about the inability to rank TEs. Kittle was a 5th round pick; Kelce was taken in the 6th. There is just no way to know Piits will be a great TE, though he has decent receiving skills.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Rd 1 TEs have been notoriously over ranked. From Vernon Davis to Eric Ebron to OJ Howard to Engram, to Njoku. The list of freaks is long.

Even Hock & Fant probably go later if the draft is done over.

Not saying that I don't like Pitts. But you can't just target him unless you are convinced that he is a great in line blocker as well. And I don't think that's his game.



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[SissyBoyFloyd]

If we felt so strongly that we needed to use our only R1 pick to improve out passing game, it seems we would choose one of those top 3 or 4 WRs who are considered so good. One problem I see is that every board I come across has the top 4 or so ranked in such different order. And knowing Keim's past, I don't have faith that he would choose the correct one, if we in fact even had a choice.

I said I would love to draft Pitts, but only if we were going to incorporate the TE into our passing schemes, which I don't remember us ever doing. In contrast to the WRs, Keim wouldn't really have to choose which TE to pick. It would be Pitts or no TE in R1.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oof factor 10

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Anyone still want to defend Keim’s drafting proficiency as league average?

 

[HairZach]

If we felt so strongly that we needed to use our only R1 pick to improve out passing game, it seems we would choose one of those top 3 or 4 WRs who are considered so good. One problem I see is that every board I come across has the top 4 or so ranked in such different order. And knowing Keim's past, I don't have faith that he would choose the correct one, if we in fact even had a choice.

I said I would love to draft Pitts, but only if we were going to incorporate the TE into our passing schemes, which I don't remember us ever doing. In contrast to the WRs, Keim wouldn't really have to choose which TE to pick. It would be Pitts or no TE in R1.

We were throwing to Dan Arnold a lot this year. We usually have at least one TE on the field and in the games where both Max and Dan were healthy we went into 2 TE sets quite often. I see Pitts as a tall fast WR that can also help us in the run game with blocking.

 

[BritCard]

We were throwing to Dan Arnold a lot this year. We usually have at least one TE on the field and in the games where both Max and Dan were healthy we went into 2 TE sets quite often. I see Pitts as a tall fast WR that can also help us in the run game with blocking.

Were we? I thought we under used him. He averaged 3 targets a game and only played 40% of snaps. I feel like he could easily have lined up in the slot more, especially over Isabella, and had at least 60% of snaps and 5-6 targets a game.

I'd have liked to see him take some of the checkdown targets away from Edmonds.

 

[Dr. Jones]

We were throwing to Dan Arnold a lot this year. We usually have at least one TE on the field and in the games where both Max and Dan were healthy we went into 2 TE sets quite often. I see Pitts as a tall fast WR that can also help us in the run game with blocking.

Typically this causes us to expose the play (run vs. pass) pre-snap. We need a TE that is a danger in both blocking and pass catching if we want the position to become something more than just a gadget level 3 or 4 play per game problem for a defense.

 

[Chopper0080]

Rd 1 TEs have been notoriously over ranked. From Vernon Davis to Eric Ebron to OJ Howard to Engram, to Njoku. The list of freaks is long.

Even Hock & Fant probably go later if the draft is done over.

Not saying that I don't like Pitts. But you can't just target him unless you are convinced that he is a great in line blocker as well. And I don't think that's his game.



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I disagree. Vernon Davis had a long career. So has Ebron. Harry's point that not a ton of teams use TEs is more of the issue than anything. Similar to FBs in that regard.

If you are the Cardinals and you are drafting Kyle Pitts, you are drafting him to essentially be your WR2. He is essentially getting Arnold and Fitzgerald's snaps.

 

[Chopper0080]

Typically this causes us to expose the play (run vs. pass) pre-snap. We need a TE that is a danger in both blocking and pass catching if we want the position to become something more than just a gadget level 3 or 4 play per game problem for a defense.

Kelce is not a great blocker but he is an effort blocker. That is all we would need Pitts to be in terms of blocking.

Also, there is nothing gadget about 6'5 245 fast enough to get behind LBs and being able to run over and around 215 lb Ss.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I was excited about that selection. Having seen him in high school on it was clear he would be great. A high school QB he was quick, agile and very smart. He wasn’t track fast but he was far from slow. He was also tough. Pitts is a good guy but he’s not Boldin. He’s not as strong or determined. He’s willing but he’s mostly just a big receiver. He will contribute but I don’t think he can dominate,

BTW I rate letting Boldin go as one of the top Cardinal mistakes ever and that’s a tough list to be incompetent enough to get on.

Indeed - nobody (including Larry) had more of an impact in terms of changing the culture of the team than Boldin.

Carson Palmer's induction ring of honor ahead of Boldin is a complete crock. I'd have Adrian Wilson and Dockett ahead of Palmer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I disagree. Vernon Davis had a long career. So has Ebron. Harry's point that not a ton of teams use TEs is more of the issue than anything. Similar to FBs in that regard.

If you are the Cardinals and you are drafting Kyle Pitts, you are drafting him to essentially be your WR2. He is essentially getting Arnold and Fitzgerald's snaps.

I’d like to see data regarding TE usage. From memory the position was virtually dead a few years ago but I feel like I’ve seen much greater usage this year and last.

Andrew’s
Hock
Fant
Kelce
TB has good usage
Henry
Rams seem to make usage of higbee/Everett
Tonyan
Gesicki
Logan Thomas
Hurst
Ebron
Engram


2 were close to, or over, 1200 yards. 12 had over 600 yards this season and another 4 in addition to that 12 had 50+ receptions. 12 had 6+ TDs.

And that’s with kittle and ertz missing large chunks of the season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kelce is not a great blocker but he is an effort blocker. That is all we would need Pitts to be in terms of blocking.

Also, there is nothing gadget about 6'5 245 fast enough to get behind LBs and being able to run over and around 215 lb Ss.

I haven’t had the benefit of watching pitts. Can he do these things? I believe the speed is adequate to do so the first at the college level but will it translate to the nfl too? And judging from his relatively slender frame, I wonder if he actually did the latter at the college level to an extent we could expect it at the nfl level. When I saw highlights of him it was always getting open I don’t recall him ever trucking a smaller defender. Am I wrong there?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I haven’t had the benefit of watching pitts. Can he do these things? I believe the speed is adequate to do so the first at the college level but will it translate to the nfl too? And judging from his relatively slender frame, I wonder if he actually did the latter at the college level to an extent we could expect it at the nfl level. When I saw highlights of him it was always getting open I don’t recall him ever trucking a smaller defender. Am I wrong there?

His specialty is catching poorly thrown balls, high thrown balls, and wrecking zones.

First catch is against Surtain and 2 other Alabama guys playing WR

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[football karma]

upside Pitts comp: Jimmy Graham

similar build coming out of college (Graham bulked up subsequently)

never a great blocker, but adequate

hands catcher and great at high pointing balls

in the right offense (NO) -- super productive, but never achieved the same impact out of it

 

[Dr. Jones]

upside Pitts comp: Jimmy Graham

similar build coming out of college (Graham bulked up subsequently)

never a great blocker, but adequate

hands catcher and great at high pointing balls

in the right offense (NO) -- super productive, but never achieved the same impact out of it

Honestly, I love Pitts. He catches like Graham but runs like Vernon Davis IMO. I love him.

Maybe he saves the high throws over the middle though. What do I know.

 

[BritCard]

I still feel Pitts is a big WR. You can see from the highlights above he lines up wide pretty much all the time.

If he was a WR where would he rank? Above Chase and Smith?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I still feel Pitts is a big WR. You can see from the highlights above he lines up wide pretty much all the time.

If he was a WR where would he rank? Above Chase and Smith?

No way. His speed and quickness measurements will be critical at his size. He would need to show up like DK did if he's a WR candidate.

I think the 3rd pass catcher is appropriate.

 

[AZman5103]

No way. His speed and quickness measurements will be critical at his size. He would need to show up like DK did if he's a WR candidate.

I think the 3rd pass catcher is appropriate.

As a pure pass catching threat, I would put him at 3-5th...Lower than Chase and Smith...somewhere in the conversation with Waddle and Terrance Marshall....depending on what teams need/value.

If ONE of our 3 WR's from a couple a years ago would have been able to see the field and be productive, we could absolutely look at TE or RB as another weapon. The fact that we went 0-3 on Butler, Isabella, and Johnson means that we probably need a #2WR before either of those things.

 

[Chopper0080]

upside Pitts comp: Jimmy Graham

similar build coming out of college (Graham bulked up subsequently)

never a great blocker, but adequate

hands catcher and great at high pointing balls

in the right offense (NO) -- super productive, but never achieved the same impact out of it

Darren Waller is the comp you will see the most. Pitts is a huge WR. and honestly, he is pretty close to Mike Evans as well.

 

[Chopper0080]

As a pure pass catching threat, I would put him at 3-5th...Lower than Chase and Smith...somewhere in the conversation with Waddle and Terrance Marshall....depending on what teams need/value.

If ONE of our 3 WR's from a couple a years ago would have been able to see the field and be productive, we could absolutely look at TE or RB as another weapon. The fact that we went 0-3 on Butler, Isabella, and Johnson means that we probably need a #2WR before either of those things.

If I got a sub 4.6 40 from him...Kyle Pitts would be my WR1.

Mike Evans ran a 4.53 at 6'5 and 230 lbs and he went top 10. There are a ton of 5'10 guys in this draft who run sub 4.45. Very few who are physically dominant guys who run fast.

If my goal is to be more physical, I should probably value the 6'5 240 guy who is fast over the 6'1 175 guy who is polished.

 

[Chopper0080]

At playerprofiler they have LeBron James as Kyle Pitts athletic comp.

 

[Chopper0080]

His specialty is catching poorly thrown balls, high thrown balls, and wrecking zones.

First catch is against Surtain and 2 other Alabama guys playing WR

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This is kind of a funny highlight clip.

His first catch is a jump ball where he runs a corner route across the face of a DB Branch but gets enough depth on his route that Surtain can't drop off his coverage fast enough to break it up.

2nd play he outruns CB Kelvin Joseph who was a top CB recruit for LSU before he transferred to Kentucky.

Vs Georgia he beats a 4 star soph DB.

In the clip vs Ole Miss he beats red zone bracket coverage.

After that he beats Alabama star LB Christian Harris down the seam. Harris was a Butkus award finalist this year as a Soph. Harris played WR and TE on offense in High School.

At the 228 mark he beats Georgia CB Tyson Campbell who is #31 on Dane Bugler's top 100 prospects.

At 448 he is matched up with Israel Mukuamu out wide who is a top 125 guy in this draft as a CB. He beats him on a slant and gets across his face clean and with separation.

Lots of hands catches, lots of bracket coverages, and lots of plays against guys who will be drafted by the NFL. Stud.

 

[BritCard]

No way. His speed and quickness measurements will be critical at his size. He would need to show up like DK did if he's a WR candidate.

I think the 3rd pass catcher is appropriate.

Being slower doesn't make him a TE. It just makes him average speed WR.

Why does he need to be DK? Most WRs are 4.45 to 4.5 ish.

Surely being able to block in line and do TE type things is what makes a TE?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His specialty is catching poorly thrown balls, high thrown balls, and wrecking zones.

First catch is against Surtain and 2 other Alabama guys playing WR

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Does seem like an oversized wr more than a TE. His height and ability to go up for balls would be useful with kylers high balls.

would be quite a pair of 6’6 TEs with he and Arnold on the field at the same time. But our three primary receiving threats would be on the slower side.