Talking Holliday again...

[Cardinals.Ken]

Packers | KGB Means No More Holliday - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
April 3, 2003 5:06:32 PT Updating previous reports, PackersNews.com reports the Green Bay Packers re-signing of DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila to a seven-year contract all but closes the door for a return by unrestricted free agent DE Vonnie Holliday.

No one can match the money the Cardinals are offering. Does anyone think Vonnie is waiting to make a decision until after the June 1st cuts, just in case some other team frees up the cap space to make any sort of offer like the Cardinals are?

I understand that he is exhausting all his options before taking the money here, but if no other team in the league is willing (or able) to offer up such a fat contract, why should the Cardinals?

Couldn't the Cardinals basically double any other team's offer, and still make off like a bandit? Wouldn't that be less than what the Cardinals are offering him now?

I know Holliday is an improvement over Wakefield, and would serve this defense well for the dozen or so games that we could be counted on playing (refering to his injury bug). But I say lowball him! The Cardinals need to keep their offer high enough above any of the other teams interested in his services, but to keep their offer to him so high is lunacy!

Seeing how as Vonnie really has no options for the kind of money he wanted when he refused the Packers huge extention offer last year, it's time to make him **** or get off the pot. If he beleives he's so valuable, make him a 1 year offer at $3-4 million to play here. Let him prove himself to be dependable and good enough to deserve the kind of money he really wants!

 

[so far away]

I agree that it is a big contract, especially when you consider his injuries, but from everything we've heard so far they're not giving it away in the form of a signing bonus. I think more than anything else that is the reason it's taking so long for him to decide. If the Chiefs do sign him it's going to have to be a big signing bonus in order to stay under the cap. Keep in mind these guys want to be paid now, they're not worried about 4-6 years down the road. Personally I'd like to see the Cards front load the contract a little bit like they did with Kendall's contract. I still say Holliday will be here by the end of the week.

 

[so far away]

If he waits until after June 1st then he's taking bad advice from a bad agent. He should've signed with someone already. IMO the longer he stays unsigned the less money he's gonna get.

 

[imaCafan]

That's what I was thinking.....If he keeps waiting, maybe we can get him for a little above the vet minimum!!!!

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by imaCafan
That's what I was thinking.....If he keeps waiting, maybe we can get him for a little above the vet minimum!!!!

Now that would be great

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by imaCafan
That's what I was thinking.....If he keeps waiting, maybe we can get him for a little above the vet minimum!!!!

Please don't tease me...that would be a dream come true!

I haven't seen every game Vonnie has played, but I've seen enough of his play (in my opinion) to make me think that he is a sliver above average. As I have stated in other threads, I don't seeing him living up to the kind of contract the Cards are offering...

 

[JasonKGME]

I've said it before and will say it again, if Holliday waits until after the draft to sign, then he will get at best half the money we are offering right now, because if we take Suggs, then why pay $4 million for a DE with injury concerns? You dont, not when everyone else is offering maybe $1 million, you double their offer and get him for say 3-yrs at $7-8 Million total.

 

[pinnacle]

jason..but if we do not get suggs and end up with a tackle or corner...we will probably not lower our offer..we cannot go into the season with wakefield and kvb as our starting d ends..depends on if we get suggs or not..if no suggs and we have to draft an end in round 2 - it depends on who the round 2 guy is..

 

[JeffGollin]

Latest word out of the EVT is that Holliday was still in KC waiting for the Chiefs to "mull over" whether they want to offer Holliday a contract.

Holliday's agent said he was waiting for the Chiefs to make up their minds and also didn't rule out having Holliday "do a Mar Tay" and sign a one year contract for less with another team. The way he put it was: "We have a long way to go before we get to that point."

(Translation - Holliday and his agent are continuing to jerk us around. But rather than fold our cards, the most sensible thing we can is to leave the offer on the table but do what we did with Kordell when he got too cute - instead of waiting for Stewart, we continued to explore other options and signed Blake).

 

[so far away]

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to either bring in Chike again for a bluff or start talks with Chike to maybe force their hand a little.

 

[imaCafan]

What was (and is) the deal with Okefer? Does he have potential??? How much better is Holliday over him??? Is Okefer a better rushing end than Holliday??? Who fits our needs better?? Would signing Okefer hurt the '9ers??

 

[so far away]

Word is that Okefor has a back problem? Doesn't look like anybody has a whole lot of interest in him. I personally wouldn't want him, I certainly don't think he's anything special. What about Chidi Ahanotu, is he still out there? Hardy Nickerson? Hell anybody that resembles a pass rusher would work as a bluff.

 

[Tangodnzr]

If Okeafor is basically damaged goods, as it appears....then the worst thing the Cards could do is try playing games with him as a pawn.....now THAT would be showing total ignorance.

 

[so far away]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
If Okeafor is basically damaged goods, as it appears....then the worst thing the Cards could do is try playing games with him as a pawn.....now THAT would be showing total ignorance.

Explain that to me?

 

[Tangodnzr]

OK....Okeafor has made the rounds to a number of teams, NO ONE has yet to offer him a contract and the word out is that he has some back or other physical problems.
It's common knowledge now.
So just who do you think it is, that the Cards would be fooling to now make him an offer? If he took it, the Cards would end up with a most likely damaged player.
The scenario of "fooling" anyone or using him as a bargaining chip, would be laughed out of town by the other teams.

I can see it now.....everyone saying......WTF are the Cards doing now? Are they serious about wanting this guy? Damaged? Or are they so ignorant they think no one would figure out their little game?

 

[jstadvl]

I think

what Tango is saying ( I'm not inside his head so I can't be sure) is, to bring someone in as a pawn, knowing your not going to sign him ( so does everyone else) just to get inside the guy you wants head, is unethical and dumb. Everyone knows if theguy is damaged goods what your ploy is.
Sorry for the run on sentence.

 

[so far away]

Well I certainly don't think it's unethical, it's business. Certainly isn't any different than an agent shopping his client to 4-5 different teams in order to get the best deal. I didn't say we had to offer him the same deal as Vonnie, hell offer him the league mini if he takes it we have a camp body if he doesn't then maybe we forced Vonnie's hand and he makes a decision, OR neither one of them sign. What harm does it cause? Since when are the Cardinals worried about what the rest of the league thinks? They already think we're at the bottom of the barrel!