That vaunted offense was horrible!

[sundevilscott]

I am so impressed with our defense this year and it gives me hopes for the upcoming year. Sonny Dykes was not able to do anything against Bray and that D. It shows you that a good d will keep you in any game. That D kept us in the Georgia, SC, Cal and UA games with an offense that was inept. I look forward to Threet coming in next year as he was clearly the best QB in practice anyway.

It is not doom and gloom for me. I look forward to next year!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

That defense didn't keep you in the OSU, Stanford, or Oregon games which Dykes' offense did with Arizona.

You're losing your best offensive linemen, running back, and top wide receivers plus you won't have the luxury of playing the conference's easiest schedule. Nixon (best LB) is gone, so is Goethel who was a beast this year. Your defense will remain talented but ultimately self-destructive because it's chock full of dumb players. ASU's going nowhere in a hurry.

Just wait until the entire O plus Gronkowski comes back next year. Dykes > Bray and it's not even close.

 

[sundevilscott]

So if those teams did that against us how come you guys couldn't? Didn't they just score 35+ against UO the week before?

Instead of saying that we have a really good D you have to talk out your ass like always. At least you stay with your MO.

 

[HooverDam]

Im glad someone's excited, but look at the Offensive line, who's going to play there?

ASU graduates Thomas Altieri, Shawn Lauvao, Tom Njunge and Brent Good. The rest of the O-line guys are either not that talented or constantly injured. DE hasn't signed an O-lineman in recruiting yet which is ridiculous considering how badly they need people at that spot. He's going to have to go the JC rout which is less than appealing.

But thats not the only question mark on offense, every position on that side of the ball is at best an unknown. I too hope Threet comes in and lights it up and I think he's probably the most naturally gifted QB ASU has but we don't know how that'll work out.

Running back is a mess, is Ryan Bass going to transfer? I sure hope not, that wouldn't help ASUs strong pipeline to the Corona area. Are Miles and Marshall going to be ASUs two primary backs next year? Theyve both shown some nice things, but ASU really needs to find another guy like Torain who can pound the ball.

What about wide out? ASU loses McGaha and Kyle Williams. Will Gerrell Robinson finally break out and be the player he was touted as in recruiting? Will JC commit George Bell come in and light the world on fire right away? Hopefully the foursome of George Bell, Gerrell Robinson, Aaron Pflugrad and Kerry Taylor can be effective next year and one or two of them can have breakout years and become game breakers.

Tight End seems like an utter nightmare at the moment, but part of that is DEs offense which doesn't use a TE much. For a school that used to pump out TEs (Steve Busch, Todd Heap, Zach Miller), its been awfully dry lately. Im hoping Josh Fulton can come in and contribute right away because they need a TE who can not only catch passes but help in the blocking game.

How I feel about next years offense will really depend on which offensive coordinator they bring in. If its some retread like Robin Pflugrard, Tim Lappano or Mike Martz (the latter 2 are suggestions of Paola Boivins) Ill be disappointed and not have much hope at all. Id be OK w/ Mark Helfrich, and thrilled with someone like Dana Holgorsen (OC/Houston).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So if those teams did that against us how come you guys couldn't? Didn't they just score 35+ against UO the week before?

Um, because a college football team's performance varies week to week based on about a million factors? I could ask the same thing - if your D held us why couldn't they stop Stanford, Oregon, or OSU?

Instead of saying that we have a really good D you have to talk out your ass like always. At least you stay with your MO.

Still bitter about the loss huh? Or is the 4-8 season?

And I did say you had a talented defense.

 

[sundevilscott]

Still bitter about the loss huh?

What a stupid thing to say. Of course I am mad about the loss. Why do you care what happens on this board? seriously

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Scott,

You were the one who made the thread about how horrible our vaunted ofense is, why should he give your defense any respect? The #2 offense in the Pac-10 had a bad game against a fast defense. Calling our offense horrible is the same as calling your defense horrible, so why are you taking offense?

 

[sundevilscott]

No, I talked about how good our D played and that a very good offense was not able to do anything and gave our DC credit.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Thread title: That vaunted offense was horrible!

 

[sundevilscott]

OK the title you are right but not the body of the post.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Then the thread title makes no sense.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

No, I talked about how good our D played and that a very good offense was not able to do anything and gave our DC credit.

No, you took a not-so-veiled shot at Sonny Dykes and the Arizona offense while trying to make a very debatable statement about the present and future of your program. You guys gave up 24ppg in conference games this year. That's more than the Oregon schools, same as UCLA, and within two points of USC, Cal, Stanford, and Arizona.

Your defense is talented (but also plays stupid and out of control) and your offense were it not for Wazzu would be the least-talented unit on the conference. Add in not playing the easiest schedule in the conference next year like ASU did in 2009 and it's easy to see why nobody thinks the program is going anywhere fast. Hell, Dennis Erickson himself yesterday talked about needing to fill a lot of holes via JC recruits in order to be more competitive. But I guess you're smarter than Erickson.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Running back is a mess, is Ryan Bass going to transfer? I sure hope not, that wouldn't help ASUs strong pipeline to the Corona area. Are Miles and Marshall going to be ASUs two primary backs next year? Theyve both shown some nice things, but ASU really needs to find another guy like Torain who can pound the ball.

Bass is gone. Fresno State I'd imagine where he'll likely never be heard from again.

 

[chickenhead]

The situation is a bit troubling because of the timing of Erickson's contract. On the one hand he'll want to bring in good transfers and field-ready recruits for an immediate bump in wins and an extension. But if he doesn't get that bump next year (with a tougher schedule), recruiting becomes even tougher if it doesn't look like he'll be around for four years. I wouldn't be surprsed if he gets an extension anyway for this very reason.

But I don't know if that's a good idea. Erickson has shown ability to turn things around quickly, which it *looked* like he was doing in 2007. It concerns me that he's saying there are holes to fill after his third year as coach. This is when his reruits she be all set to take center stage.

 

[Gaddabout]

Dykes > Bray and it's not even close.

Mao, you are usually a reasonable poster, even for the ASU/UA flaps, but you are obviously looking through your red-and-blue glasses on this one.

Both are developing decent coordinator resumes, but neither merit superstar status as of yet.

And I should add ASU returning Lawrence Guy and James Brooks will be the basis of another decent ASU defense more than anything else.

 

[sundevilscott]

No, you took a not-so-veiled shot at Sonny Dykes and the Arizona offense while trying to make a very debatable statement about the present and future of your program. You guys gave up 24ppg in conference games this year. That's more than the Oregon schools, same as UCLA, and within two points of USC, Cal, Stanford, and Arizona.

Your defense is talented (but also plays stupid and out of control) and your offense were it not for Wazzu would be the least-talented unit on the conference. Add in not playing the easiest schedule in the conference next year like ASU did in 2009 and it's easy to see why nobody thinks the program is going anywhere fast. Hell, Dennis Erickson himself yesterday talked about needing to fill a lot of holes via JC recruits in order to be more competitive. But I guess you're smarter than Erickson.

You can read in to how you want but when it was in my head I was stoked about the fact that our D shut down your O. Period

When did i say I was smarter then DE? That is just you being a D%^k just for the sake of being a D%^k.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Mao, you are usually a reasonable poster, even for the ASU/UA flaps, but you are obviously looking through your red-and-blue glasses on this one.

Both are developing decent coordinator resumes, but neither merit superstar status as of yet.

And I should add ASU returning Lawrence Guy and James Brooks will be the basis of another decent ASU defense more than anything else.

Well, Dykes was nominated for national assistant of the year award this year and has been rumored for several head coaching vacancies which is more than can be said for Bray. So I'm not the only one out there who thinks he's a better assistant. When all is said and done - both coordinated the conference's second best unit only Bray had the luxury of a two-time National Champion while Dykes gets Mike Stoops.

When did i say I was smarter then DE? That is just you being a D%^k just for the sake of being a D%^k.

You're just upset I called you and shot holes through your asinine comments by providing quotes from your own coach and statistics to support it. You still haven't answered how a good defense can keep you in more games than a good offense by the way.

 

[Gaddabout]

Well, Dykes was nominated for national assistant of the year award this year and has been rumored for several head coaching vacancies which is more than can be said for Bray. So I'm not the only one out there who thinks he's a better assistant. When all is said and done - both coordinated the conference's second best unit only Bray had the luxury of a two-time National Champion while Dykes gets Mike Stoops.

I'd be willing to bet Dykes has had more input into his offense than Bray has his defense, if that's what you mean, but comparing results based on their limited input to date is intellectually dishonest. Three years is nothing as a coordinator. Moreso, Bray had a longer way to go taking over profoundly mediocre talent three years ago compared to the merely mediocre talent Dykes started with. Needless to say, UA's recruiting has been a tad better than ASU's the past couple of years.

It's pretty amazing how smart an OC looks when he gets a productive QB in there. It's a little more difficult for one player to make that kind of impact on defense, and considering ASU's vaunted pass rushers more or less disappeared this year, it sort of makes Bray's in-game decisions even more appealing. Add into it an offense that did everything possible to put its defense in compromising decisions while asking them to bear the brunt of time on the field, you tell me which coach better earned his paycheck.

Still not saying Bray is better, but your attempt to downplay what he's done is unadulterated fanboyism. I would think you, being a level-headed fellow, would be quick to recognize it. You don't need to explain UA's success to me. I recognize it. But if ASU had won, I wouldn't need to jump into the cesspool of myopia to enjoy it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'd be willing to bet Dykes has had more input into his offense than Bray has his defense, if that's what you mean, but comparing results based on their limited input to date is intellectually dishonest. Three years is nothing as a coordinator. Moreso, Bray had a longer way to go taking over profoundly mediocre talent three years ago compared to the merely mediocre talent Dykes started with. Needless to say, UA's recruiting has been a tad better than ASU's the past couple of years.

Dykes oversees player evaluation, development, playcalling, and scheme for Arizona's offense. Not sure about Bray. And I'd argue the talent level was about even, Arizona was an awful team offensively before Dykes arrived. I think like seven or eight of Arizona's starters on offense this year were handpicked by Dykes or an assistant he brought with him.

It's pretty amazing how smart an OC looks when he gets a productive QB in there. It's a little more difficult for one player to make that kind of impact on defense, and considering ASU's vaunted pass rushers more or less disappeared this year, it sort of makes Bray's in-game decisions even more appealing. Add into it an offense that did everything possible to put its defense in compromising decisions while asking them to bear the brunt of time on the field, you tell me which coach better earned his paycheck.

Well, yeah a QB helps. You don't think having Mike Nixon and Lawrence Guy helps Bray look like a better DC? Bringing in and developing those players is a feather in those coach's caps, not a point of criticism as if those player's skills fell ass backwards into their laps.

Still not saying Bray is better, but your attempt to downplay what he's done is unadulterated fanboyism. I would think you, being a level-headed fellow, would be quick to recognize it. You don't need to explain UA's success to me. I recognize it. But if ASU had won, I wouldn't need to jump into the cesspool of myopia to enjoy it.

I never downplayed what he's done, I said Dykes is a superior coordinator, ASU had a quality talented defense that often played stupid and out of control, and that a one game sample means jack. All of that's true in my opinion, the latter two everyone should agree with.

 

[Gaddabout]

You don't think having Mike Nixon and Lawrence Guy helps Bray look like a better DC? Bringing in and developing those players is a feather in those coach's caps, not a point of criticism as if those player's skills fell ass backwards into their laps.

Well, he inherited Nixon and Guy is a godsend to any DC -- great 1-gap tackles mean you can hide weaknesses elsewhere. But neither have an impact like a QB who can manufacture 3rd down conversions when the running game disappears. Neither Nixon nor Guy could hide the lack of depth at corner. That ASU didn't give up 300+ yards per game passing is a minor miracle.

But I was just engaging your rhetoric to reinforce my point that comparing Dykes to Bray is pointless at this point in their careers. Both guys are probably deserving better jobs right now. UA fans were tepid on Dykes until Foles was inserted. I wasn't paying attention to your responses earlier this year, but if you had the foresight to maintain your faith through the Scott Experiment, kudos to you.

No doubt ASU's defense was reckless this year, but that's a product of Erickson, not Bray. The lack of discipline on the field was reinforced over and over again. You don't lead the nation in penalties unless the head coaching has lost control. Burfict is a thug. I wonder if he's going to make it to his sophomore year. I have a fear he won't.

But ASU's defense will still be plenty good enough to produce a winning season next year because, for the most part, ASU defenders were in position to make plays (and prevent giving up big ones).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Definitely wasn't happy during the Foles-Scott thing, I was with the players in thinking Foles was the better option. But I do give Dykes credit for pulling the trigger so quickly into the season where most coaches stubbornly stick to their guns to run their own system. There's a small chance it cost us Iowa however thinking Arizona even with Foles walks out of Kinnick with a W is a longshot. Dykes ultimately wants a dual-threat QB though, he keeps recruiting that way. Foles/Tuitama were out of necessity.

I don't know all the inner workings of the ASU Football team, but if you're saying it's Erickson then it's Erickson. I have heard that the Centennial guys aren't exactly the most popular on the team especially among some of the older guys.