The ASFN Writers Group.

[Bodha]

Hope this is OK for this section. Its all Books anyhow.



Anyone else enjoy writing as much as reading? I do. Before I get into any discussions, first I need to see if there are any of you who also write a bit.


...

 

[82CardsGrad]

 

[D-Dogg]

JTS published a great book called The Perfume Alibi. http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f48/the-perfume-alibi-by-jefftheshark-181540.html

I'm working on a youth chapter book which I'm about halfway through and a novel that I'll never get very far on.

Another person has a book that has not been published.

So yea, good thread idea.

 

[Bodha]

Getting a book published is like hitting the lottery, and even then, making any money is very tough.

Harry Potter got rejected by 40 publishing agencies before it got picked up.


I love to write. I have a novel in mind that I will someday write. I think its a big accomplishment to write a book once in your life. I think the main thing stopping mee from starting, is the fear of failure. Right now, Ive got nothing but potential. Im going to sit down and bang that thing out in a few months. Im just afraid Ill get to page 4 and hit a wall.

Soon, though. Very soon. Just got to get the nerve up.

 

[D-Dogg]

Getting a book published is like hitting the lottery, and even then, making any money is very tough.

Harry Potter got rejected by 40 publishing agencies before it got picked up.


I love to write. I have a novel in mind that I will someday write. I think its a big accomplishment to write a book once in your life. I think the main thing stopping mee from starting, is the fear of failure. Right now, Ive got nothing but potential. Im going to sit down and bang that thing out in a few months. Im just afraid Ill get to page 4 and hit a wall.

Soon, though. Very soon. Just got to get the nerve up.

I find that I have very little time to sit down and write. Life comes at you fast, and there is only so much time available. With three kids, volunteer coaching, work, church volunteer teaching and friends/sporting events, finding a solid chunk of time to sit and write is challenging.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I find that I have very little time to sit down and write. Life comes at you fast, and there is only so much time available. With three kids, volunteer coaching, work, church volunteer teaching and friends/sporting events, finding a solid chunk of time to sit and write is challenging.

This... However, I did recently push a very short (literally 3 pages) story a bit further down the path toward completion... Or, at least as complete as I will probably take it. Who knows, perhaps one day a publisher might see an oppty to further develop the story. It's a factual recount of an amazing experience that occured just over 20 years ago now... If you're interested in seeing it, I would be willing to post it here and would be totally open to your collective feedback...

 

[Bodha]

This... However, I did recently push a very short (literally 3 pages) story a bit further down the path toward completion... Or, at least as complete as I will probably take it. Who knows, perhaps one day a publisher might see an oppty to further develop the story. It's a factual recount of an amazing experience that occured just over 20 years ago now... If you're interested in seeing it, I would be willing to post it here and would be totally open to your collective feedback...

Please do, Id love to see it.



OT: I used to work at a hotel (it was a nice one) when I was younger. A lady in her 50s is staying with us and she hangs around the front desk alot. So we all talk to her and shes real cool and nice. This was right around when the 1st Twilight book came out and it was sort of a new Potter-type book craze, you know. Seeing the success of that book by an amateur writer inspired alot of people. Including this lady. So shes telling us how shes writing a book and its going very well and etc. and would we like to see it? I say of course. So she brings over the manuscript, its about 30 pages, and she walks away to the bar area, but still within sight. I start reading this thing. Awesome lady but this stoy was unique. You could tell it was written by a 50 year old lady without alot of action in her life at least. On property we had tons of cats running around from the neighborhood.The guests liked them, so it was never a problem. This ladys story was about a cat (who isnt anthropomorphized) who meets up with a dancing, singing cactus (sort of like the singing bush from the 3 amigos). So even if this was a childrens book, whats less than a "E" rating? "i" for infant. It was the most grandma-ish, PG, boring story ive ever read. Shes trying to bank off the success of a story about a pedophile vampire who falls in love with a girl who sets women back 40 years, by writing a book about a cat and his cactus friend.

To her credit she had an interesting style at least. Very interesting little quips and quirks and audio devices all over the place. Having spoken to her in person, her voice just bled off the page.

So when she ran back to the desk all excited and expectant, I told her outright. Her style, and voice are fantastic. The story itself is incredibly lame. Cats and cactus's? Regardless of your audience( besides little kids) action, sex, violence, suspense, fantasy. These things sell. You certainly have the creative side down pat. Not to mention she drafted 30 pages in the short while she was at our hotel. Because it was clear everything about her story, she took from the property. The cats, and we had a well groomed property with plants and cacti and stuff everywhere. Now that I think about it I think the story was actually set at a type of Inn or something. So props to the 30 pages. But it was about as entertaining as reading 30 pages of grandma talk about coupons.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Please do, Id love to see it.



OT: I used to work at a hotel (it was a nice one) when I was younger. A lady in her 50s is staying with us and she hangs around the front desk alot. So we all talk to her and shes real cool and nice. This was right around when the 1st Twilight book came out and it was sort of a new Potter-type book craze, you know. Seeing the success of that book by an amateur writer inspired alot of people. Including this lady. So shes telling us how shes writing a book and its going very well and etc. and would we like to see it? I say of course. So she brings over the manuscript, its about 30 pages, and she walks away to the bar area, but still within sight. I start reading this thing. Awesome lady but this stoy was unique. You could tell it was written by a 50 year old lady without alot of action in her life at least. On property we had tons of cats running around from the neighborhood.The guests liked them, so it was never a problem. This ladys story was about a cat (who isnt anthropomorphized) who meets up with a dancing, singing cactus (sort of like the singing bush from the 3 amigos). So even if this was a childrens book, whats less than a "E" rating? "i" for infant. It was the most grandma-ish, PG, boring story ive ever read. Shes trying to bank off the success of a story about a pedophile vampire who falls in love with a girl who sets women back 40 years, by writing a book about a cat and his cactus friend.

To her credit she had an interesting style at least. Very interesting little quips and quirks and audio devices all over the place. Having spoken to her in person, her voice just bled off the page.

So when she ran back to the desk all excited and expectant, I told her outright. Her style, and voice are fantastic. The story itself is incredibly lame. Cats and cactus's? Regardless of your audience( besides little kids) action, sex, violence, suspense, fantasy. These things sell. You certainly have the creative side down pat. Not to mention she drafted 30 pages in the short while she was at our hotel. Because it was clear everything about her story, she took from the property. The cats, and we had a well groomed property with plants and cacti and stuff everywhere. Now that I think about it I think the story was actually set at a type of Inn or something. So props to the 30 pages. But it was about as entertaining as reading 30 pages of grandma talk about coupons.

OK... here ya go. Let me know what ya think...

 

[Bodha]

Read it. Very good. You can tell it meant alot to you and came from a very personal need to tell this story. Mostly for yourself because writing is very therapeutic.

If youll permit me several editorial notes. Dont take these as negatives or critique, sometimes the best thing you can do is have someone else read through a paper because they pick up things your brain just glosses over.

Minor issues but I think you could really punch up your story with these minor additions/subtractions.

Great job



--------------------------------------------------------

Discuss the moment you landed and got off the plane. That had to be very powerful and it would seem like a good point to stop and reflect. Its just you build up to going to Italy, how much it means to your grandpa and you, waiting in the terminal for your flight with anticipation. You skip ahead to seeing the landscape as you land and then immediatley jump to taking a 3 day tour of Rome. Its just if you take the time to describe waiting to depart, itd seem like you should also include when you actually landed and any feelings that came up when you stepped onto Italian soil.

page 1, last paragraph "winded our way through the mountains". I dont like the word "winded". Meandered. Snaked. cut. waffed. Just a suggestion. The flow of the story just halts at the word winded because it doesnt fit.

Same sentence "we winded our way through the mountains filled with granite". Is a dangling participle. Is the mountains filled with granite, or are you filled with granite as you wind through the mountains? It sounds ridiculous, but its an important literary detail. "We winded our way through the granite filled mountains".

Page 1, last paragraph. big run on sentence. Start at But and go to the period. That sentence is about 6 lines long. Add a Period after JFK and delete the "as". Thatll clean it up.

1st paragraph page 2. Awesome. Great description.

page 2 paragraph 2. You use "day" twice in a very short sentence. "Would eventually come true". One of the "days" needs to go.

Page 3, paragraph 1. It runs a little long. Starting at "It was until later that evening.." to the end. Break it up a little.

Page 3. In the span of 3 paragraphs, you mention the time span of "...20 years..." 4 times. Pick and choose where its most important. 2 tops.

Page 3. The main point of this part of the story is reflecting upon the fact youve seen the scene that your grandpa painted several times. An awe inspiring view of the mountains and sea from a particular vantage point ( I assume that spot in the church). You should go into a little more detail after your wife tells you to turn around and you see it. How are you seeing it? You said its an exterior staircase, I assume you are on a deck? This is a very important point in the story, dont rush through it. Describe where you are standing. What youre doing. What youre thinking. More detail into what you see. Describe the view for the reader so we can appreciate the beauty as well.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Read it. Very good. You can tell it meant alot to you and came from a very personal need to tell this story. Mostly for yourself because writing is very therapeutic.

If youll permit me several editorial notes. Dont take these as negatives or critique, sometimes the best thing you can do is have someone else read through a paper because they pick up things your brain just glosses over.

Minor issues but I think you could really punch up your story with these minor additions/subtractions.

Great job



--------------------------------------------------------

Discuss the moment you landed and got off the plane. That had to be very powerful and it would seem like a good point to stop and reflect. Its just you build up to going to Italy, how much it means to your grandpa and you, waiting in the terminal for your flight with anticipation. You skip ahead to seeing the landscape as you land and then immediatley jump to taking a 3 day tour of Rome. Its just if you take the time to describe waiting to depart, itd seem like you should also include when you actually landed and any feelings that came up when you stepped onto Italian soil.

page 1, last paragraph "winded our way through the mountains". I dont like the word "winded". Meandered. Snaked. cut. waffed. Just a suggestion. The flow of the story just halts at the word winded because it doesnt fit.

Same sentence "we winded our way through the mountains filled with granite". Is a dangling participle. Is the mountains filled with granite, or are you filled with granite as you wind through the mountains? It sounds ridiculous, but its an important literary detail. "We winded our way through the granite filled mountains".

Page 1, last paragraph. big run on sentence. Start at But and go to the period. That sentence is about 6 lines long. Add a Period after JFK and delete the "as". Thatll clean it up.

1st paragraph page 2. Awesome. Great description.

page 2 paragraph 2. You use "day" twice in a very short sentence. "Would eventually come true". One of the "days" needs to go.

Page 3, paragraph 1. It runs a little long. Starting at "It was until later that evening.." to the end. Break it up a little.

Page 3. In the span of 3 paragraphs, you mention the time span of "...20 years..." 4 times. Pick and choose where its most important. 2 tops.

Page 3. The main point of this part of the story is reflecting upon the fact youve seen the scene that your grandpa painted several times. An awe inspiring view of the mountains and sea from a particular vantage point ( I assume that spot in the church). You should go into a little more detail after your wife tells you to turn around and you see it. How are you seeing it? You said its an exterior staircase, I assume you are on a deck? This is a very important point in the story, dont rush through it. Describe where you are standing. What youre doing. What youre thinking. More detail into what you see. Describe the view for the reader so we can appreciate the beauty as well.

Excellent points Bodha. Thanks a ton for, first taking the time to read it... and second, offering some very good editorial enhancements!

I'll be looking to expand and improve on this in the days ahead.

Thanks again!

 

[Bodha]

Excellent points Bodha. Thanks a ton for, first taking the time to read it... and second, offering some very good editorial enhancements!

I'll be looking to expand and improve on this in the days ahead.

Thanks again!

You are very welcome.

Also, describe Grandpa a little. He is the central character in this story and all we really know about him is he loves to paint, he played in an orchestra, is proud of his heritage, is a loving family man and hates to be late. You mentioned how you lived with him for 3 years. Discuss those 3 years. It provides a good opportunity for the reader to get to know the man. Minor details are fine. Discuss his personality more. His habits (not just his hobbies).

Right now you have 3 pages. After I read it, I feel like you could easily expand to 6 or 7. The main thing is dont rush. Take the time to describe people and places. You have alot to work with and I think youll start to remember details of your trip that you missed the first time around, If you just slow down.

 

[Gaddabout]

A long time ago I decided I would never, ever subject myself to public criticism of my fictional works. Probably because I'm so hard on other writers, I can't imagine receiving the same type of criticism for my own. So I write for my own amusement. I encourage everyone to adopt this perspective, because it keeps writing fun.

 

[Gaddabout]

A long time ago I decided I would never, ever subject myself to public criticism of my fictional works. Probably because I'm so hard on other writers, I can't imagine receiving the same type of criticism for my own. So I write for my own amusement. I encourage everyone to adopt this perspective, because it keeps writing fun.

Re-read and decided to clarify.

Write for your own amusement. Never go into it thinking it's going to be a career. If your passion is great and your writing is diligent, it will become that because you won't be able to help yourself. If it's not, it's probably not meant to be in the first place.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You are very welcome.

Also, describe Grandpa a little. He is the central character in this story and all we really know about him is he loves to paint, he played in an orchestra, is proud of his heritage, is a loving family man and hates to be late. You mentioned how you lived with him for 3 years. Discuss those 3 years. It provides a good opportunity for the reader to get to know the man. Minor details are fine. Discuss his personality more. His habits (not just his hobbies).

Right now you have 3 pages. After I read it, I feel like you could easily expand to 6 or 7. The main thing is dont rush. Take the time to describe people and places. You have alot to work with and I think youll start to remember details of your trip that you missed the first time around, If you just slow down.

You're right... To clarify, I really never intended to make this an elongated story. Just never had the time to invest in it that way. Because it was the 20th anniversary of this event, I was feeling an incredible rush of emotion and the only way I could deal with it was to purge. Candidly, I went onto to facebook and within a span of no more than 45 mins, I scratched out what is mainly contained in what I attached here.
After receiving a ton of comments and re-reading it, I do feel that I can build it out as there are certainly ample material waiting to be inserted...

Thanks again Bodha!

 

[Bodha]

You're right... To clarify, I really never intended to make this an elongated story. Just never had the time to invest in it that way. Because it was the 20th anniversary of this event, I was feeling an incredible rush of emotion and the only way I could deal with it was to purge. Candidly, I went onto to facebook and within a span of no more than 45 mins, I scratched out what is mainly contained in what I attached here.
After receiving a ton of comments and re-reading it, I do feel that I can build it out as there are certainly ample material waiting to be inserted...

Thanks again Bodha!

I know. It reads like something you wrote very quickly in a surge of emotion and motivation. Ive done that many times. For your own self satisfaction, itd feel good to make it the best you can. Regardless of whether or not youre the only one to ever read it. If it meant that much to you in the moment to write it, it should mean that much to you now to perfect it. Not to mention itll get so good that youll want to show it to friends and family. You should be proud of what you write.

A long time ago I decided I would never, ever subject myself to public criticism of my fictional works. Probably because I'm so hard on other writers, I can't imagine receiving the same type of criticism for my own. So I write for my own amusement. I encourage everyone to adopt this perspective, because it keeps writing fun.

Re-read and decided to clarify.

Write for your own amusement. Never go into it thinking it's going to be a career. If your passion is great and your writing is diligent, it will become that because you won't be able to help yourself. If it's not, it's probably not meant to be in the first place.

Thats a big problem writers struggle with. Critique and criticism. You instantly get defensive.

The value of having another person read your stuff is they pick up on things that you, as the writer, will gloss over 100x if you reread it yourself 100x. Someone else comes along and points out a detail and from then on its staggering like "How the heck did I miss that?".

Writing is for personal enjoyment. But to say I dont ever want someone else revising my stuff is a complete contradiction of that.

Because you are taking yourself and your work too seriously. If its not your career. You have nothing to gain or lose, why so sensitive about getting critiqued? It makes no sense.

I dont like it either. Im sensitive about my stuff, but I force myself to let someone else read it because I know itll benefit me.




and most importantly, you grow as a writer. Its no different from any sport or activity when you make a mistake and the coaches correct you. You learn and you grow and youre better from there on out.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I know. It reads like something you wrote very quickly in a surge of emotion and motivation. Ive done that many times. For your own self satisfaction, itd feel good to make it the best you can. Regardless of whether or not youre the only one to ever read it. If it meant that much to you in the moment to write it, it should mean that much to you now to perfect it. Not to mention itll get so good that youll want to show it to friends and family. You should be proud of what you write.

Right on man... It does mean a ton to me. I absolutely want to leave it with family - particularly my kids.
I'm pretty sure I'll be touching it on a routine basis... Again, thanks for the comments Bodha. Very much appreciated!

 

[crisper57]

I finished my first novel (119,000 words) in August. I have been trying to get it picked up, but so far, no luck.

I've started trying to join some short story contests to build my skills, and hopefully, my resume.

In the mean time, I started my second effort. I will keep writing, even if no one ever reads it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I finished my first novel (119,000 words) in August. I have been trying to get it picked up, but so far, no luck.

I've started trying to join some short story contests to build my skills, and hopefully, my resume.

In the mean time, I started my second effort. I will keep writing, even if no one ever reads it.

 

[Bodha]

I finished my first novel (119,000 words) in August. I have been trying to get it picked up, but so far, no luck.

I've started trying to join some short story contests to build my skills, and hopefully, my resume.

In the mean time, I started my second effort. I will keep writing, even if no one ever reads it.

Thats awesome, great job.

Wed love to read it if you care to post it.

119,000 words. Thats a hefty book. Is that up around 300 pages?
How long did it take you?

 

[crisper57]

Thats awesome, great job.

Wed love to read it if you care to post it.

119,000 words. Thats a hefty book. Is that up around 300 pages?
How long did it take you?

It's 467 pages. I've had difficulty posting it anywhere because of its size. It took me about 2 years to finish. I went through about 5 drafts before I was completely happy with it.

 

[Bodha]

It's 467 pages. I've had difficulty posting it anywhere because of its size. It took me about 2 years to finish. I went through about 5 drafts before I was completely happy with it.

Thats a heck of an accomplishment. Did you pay an editor or do it yourself? And do you have an agent?

Could give us the first 5 pages just so we can get a sampling of your style. Youve had to send those same pages to about a thousand publishers, so I know you got them. Form doesnt matter. PDF, .txt. docx.

 

[crisper57]

Thats a heck of an accomplishment. Did you pay an editor or do it yourself? And do you have an agent?

Could give us the first 5 pages just so we can get a sampling of your style. Youve had to send those same pages to about a thousand publishers, so I know you got them. Form doesnt matter. PDF, .txt. docx.

I'll throw out my first chapter in this attachment. I've edited it myself so far because I don't think I can afford a pro to do a book this big. I'm still looking for an agent.

If anyone else wants to read it and offer critiques, I would welcome them. I've had lots of people offer to do this for me, but so far, only 2 have actually even read more than two pages of the book.

 

[Bodha]

Thanks for allowing us to read your story. Youve got some talent Crisp. Truly.

 

[crisper57]

Thanks for allowing us to read your story. Youve got some talent Crisp. Truly.

Thank you for the feedback. It's been the best I've received so far. I think I'd like to share the rest with you, if you don't mind. PM me with how I can send it to you.

Like I said, I've gone through 5 drafts with little, or no, relevant feedback, so even the few tips you gave me woke me up to issues I hadn't been aware of.

 

[Gaddabout]

Thats a big problem writers struggle with. Critique and criticism. You instantly get defensive.

The value of having another person read your stuff is they pick up on things that you, as the writer, will gloss over 100x if you reread it yourself 100x. Someone else comes along and points out a detail and from then on its staggering like "How the heck did I miss that?".

Writing is for personal enjoyment. But to say I dont ever want someone else revising my stuff is a complete contradiction of that.

Because you are taking yourself and your work too seriously. If its not your career. You have nothing to gain or lose, why so sensitive about getting critiqued? It makes no sense.

I dont like it either. Im sensitive about my stuff, but I force myself to let someone else read it because I know itll benefit me.

and most importantly, you grow as a writer. Its no different from any sport or activity when you make a mistake and the coaches correct you. You learn and you grow and youre better from there on out.

I'm usually on the other side of things. I edit others' writing every day. It can take away the pleasure of simply writing to learn something about yourself.

Met a guy years ago who cleaned up masters of audio recordings. He used these tiny little speakers, because his job was to find every hiss and pop that made it's way through the process. He said he can't enjoy music anymore because all he can hear is hiss and pop.

I think that's probably how I feel about my writing -- and most any writing.