The Bane of a Cardinals Fan's Existence: Offensive Line

[RugbyMuffin]

Ok, make your case.

The offensive line situation is a tough situation. We only have two starters set in stone, IMHO. That would be Sendlein and College. Hadnot was challenged last year by Lutui, and Lutui has been the in doghouse so long I forgot he was on the team at times last year, so Hadnot is no certainty. Obviously both OT are up in the air at this point.

I sure as heck am no expert on the offensive line, and neither are any of us, thus the list of statements below is not to call out anyone's stupidity or wisdom, just a list of thoughts and options of what to do with this offensive line.

Cause lets face it. The Cardinals offensive line has been poor for an extremely long time. We have seen the Cardinals go to the Super Bowl, find pass rushers, and even find competent TE's for Pete's sake, but that offensive line still has not found a core unit to drive them.



Some statements I have heard about this offseason:

"Our interior line is fine, there is nothing we have to do to improve it"

"Levi Brown may be our best option at left tackle"

"Jared Gaither is our best prospect at left tackle"

"Levi Brown would make a good right tackle."

"Jeremy Bridges is not good enough to play either tackle position"

"Russ Grimm has the tools he needs to have a good offensive line"

"Russ Grimm is overrated, and it the main problem with our offensive line"

"Jeff Backus is worse than Levi Brown"

"Max Starks is worse than Levi Brown"

"Why don't we try Kareem McKenzie at left tackle?"

"Demetrius Bell is the best opportunity for the Cardinals to find a left tackle"

"Jonath Martin is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"Mike Adams is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"Riley Reiff is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"David DeCastro is going to be the BPA at #13, and is the safest pick for the Cardinals"



I will add some of my own thoughts/speculations:

The Cardinals should take a good look at King Dunlap for the right tackle position.

The Cardinals should see if Trai Essex has his weight problems under control he can be a good pick up for the Cardinals.

I really like Art Forst from Rutgers in the later rounds of the draft.

I am very high on Ryan Bartholomew, who is our "backup" center as of right now, spent all last season on the practice squad, and is an absolute BEAST of a man.

 

[kerouac9]

Jeff Bridges might be as good, but Jeremy Bridges is our backup tackle.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Jeff Bridges might be as good, but Jeremy Bridges is our backup tackle.

Give Jeff a break. He's 60 years old, but has moxie.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Jeff Bridges might be as good, but Jeremy Bridges is our backup tackle.

Sorry, lotta strands in ol' duder's head.

My thinking was very uptight when I posted that.

I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my carpet but I went on an posted that anyway.

But, its all water under the bridge now.

 

[Reddog]

Rework Levi's contract and move him to RT
Pick up either Jared Gaither or Demetrius Bell for LT
Trade back and grab David DeCastro and if not available take BPA and work with the OGs you have

LT Gaither/Bell, LG College, C Sendlein, RG DeCastro, RT Brown

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Ok, I'll bite:

Sign as Free Agents:
Backus or Starks for LT
Dunlap or Essex for RT

Draft DeCastro at 13
Draft Forst in later rounds.


LT: Backus/Starks
LG: Colledge
OC: Sendlein
RG: Hadnot
RT: Dunlap/Essex

Depht:
OT: Bridges
OG: DeCastro & Forst (52nd spot or PS)
OC: Bartholomew


I think that would be a solid line for the Cardinals in 2012.

Starks and Backus are not as bad on paper as many seem to dictate, and when keeping in mind that they are an upgrade from Levi Brown who seems to be one of the worst LT in the league.

Keith has been a dissapointment, and I know Dunlap would be an upgrade, and Essex seems to hold his own when he is playing, and again would be an upgrade to Keith.

 

[JeffGollin]

Good job.

Backing up one stage, I believe our OL needs to improve in the following areas:

1. Handing-off and picking up assignments when dealing with stunts, twists and blitzes.

2. More consistency creating room for RB's to pick up positive yardage (including not allowing defenders to blow through the gap to stop plays in the backfield and picking up "back-door" pursuit).

3. A road-grader component at the LOS when we want to blow a defender 10-15 yards into the secondary.

4. Consistency converting 3rd or 4th & 1.

5. Matching up better in tackle vs. edge-rusher battles (i.e. quicker feet, stronger, better balance).

What we need to ask ourselves is: "What changes are needed to accomplish the above 5 objectives?" Based on that, I'm inclined to go along with the "Keep Sendlein and Colledge" strategy; but that would still mean replacing 6 guys to properly re-tool the offensive line (both starters and backups).

That's a tough challenge - maybe too daunting to do in one year - but you have to start somewhere. As to which FA's to sign or rookies to draft, I'm not sure about any of the FA's. In the Draft, I know I like DeCastro, but would want to delve more into Martin, Kalil, Adams, Reiff, Bell, the center from Wisc. and others before setting up a position or BPA draft board.

A good goal for 2012 might be to sign 2 FA offensive linemen and draft 3 more(including at least one on the first day), throw in a couple of UDFA's and hope we can wind up adding at least 4 (hopefully more) guys who, together, will make a significant immediate impact on our O-line play.

 

[Waysouth]

I agree with what Red Dog is selling. Give me Manning and a (verticle) receiver that can take some pressure off Fitz and we would be surprised how much the line would improve.

 

[Duckjake]

I think the Cards should just look for a LT and leave the rest of the line alone. Look at Jeff's post. Most of those problems are scheme issues, especially the most glaring the last few seasons, blown assignments leaving unblocked defenders and running plays being blown up from the back side.

The only reason I think they need a LT is that Brown is going to get offered more money from another team and be gone by March 21st.

Leave the line intact as much as possible. After all they had 2 new members and no off season. I think that with a year together and a full off season they really will "get it". These aren't players with only a handful of starts in 4 years in the NFL like some other player who shall remain nameless. They are players, with the exception of Keith, with 70,80,90 games starting in the NFL. Even our rotational lineman Jeremy "Crazy Heart" Bridges has started 55 games.

 

[52brandon]

Ok, I'll bite:

Sign as Free Agents:
Backus or Starks for LT
Dunlap or Essex for RT

Draft DeCastro at 13
Draft Forst in later rounds.


LT: Backus/Starks
LG: Colledge
OC: Sendlein
RG: Hadnot
RT: Dunlap/Essex

Depht:
OT: Bridges
OG: DeCastro & Forst (52nd spot or PS)
OC: Bartholomew


I think that would be a solid line for the Cardinals in 2012.

Starks and Backus are not as bad on paper as many seem to dictate, and when keeping in mind that they are an upgrade from Levi Brown who seems to be one of the worst LT in the league.

Keith has been a dissapointment, and I know Dunlap would be an upgrade, and Essex seems to hold his own when he is playing, and again would be an upgrade to Keith.

THE worst

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think the Cards should just look for a LT and leave the rest of the line alone. Look at Jeff's post. Most of those problems are scheme issues, especially the most glaring the last few seasons, blown assignments leaving unblocked defenders and running plays being blown up from the back side.

The only reason I think they need a LT is that Brown is going to get offered more money from another team and be gone by March 21st.

Leave the line intact as much as possible. After all they had 2 new members and no off season. I think that with a year together and a full off season they'll "get it".

Two counter points:

1. Agreed, and I like Jeff's post, but one of the things he notes, and the Cardinals, through personel decisions seem to echo this fact, is the need for a "road-grader". Look at some of the players they have tried to get in that RG position in Herman Johnson, Deuce Lutui, they wanted Kendrick Vincet at one point. They picked up Chris Stewart (6'5", 351lbs) at the beginning of this offseason. Thus the situation at the RG position. That RG position I belive will be dealt with via the draft, and Hadnot will start out the year in that position and hopefully the rookie will over take the spot before the year is out.

2. I will not buy into the continuity situation. I would like to see some talent show up before we play that card. Are we really going to sit here and say that Levi Brown and Brandon Keith would get better if they just played with the same players for 3+ years? I am not. If your talent and skills are not adequate, all the continuity in the world is not going to make up for it.

I believe that most teams have a core, 2 or 3 players on the line that hold together the continuity. Thinking you will have the same 5 players on a line for more than 2 years tops is not realitistic.

Now going back to the core, the Cardinals don't have one, and haven't had one is a very, very, very long time. Thus if DeCastro is as good as they say he is, he is the pick at 13. Find another 2 players that consist of the core of that line, and keep those 3 players together (if the other two have NFL talent) for as long as you can.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

THE worst

Agreed.

But so many on this board will not make the move to replace him, unless it is with an All-Pro talent. As if it seems the only acceptable options are to have the worse LT in the league or one of the best, and nothing in betwen those two choices are acceptable.

What if Gaither is signed by the Chargers or tagged, and Bell is signed/tagged by the Bills.

If not Levi Brown than, who ?

 

[Chopper0080]

Here is my idealistic scenario

FA
Sign Carl Nicks to play LG
Sign Jeff Backus to play LT

Draft
Draft David DeCatro in 1st round to play RG
Draft Andrew Datko(OT Fla St.) in the 4th round
Draft Derek Dennis (OG Temple) in the 6th round
Draft Joe Long (OT Wayne St, bro of Jake Long)

Move
Move Darryn Colledge to RT (He played LT in GB albeit poorly)

Starting Unit...
LT-Jeff Backus (dependable/limited vet)
LG-Carl Nicks (pro bowler)
C-Lyle Sendlein (ok)
RG-David DeCastro (potential pro bowler)
RT-Darryn Colledge (might play better at RT than LT where he was poor in GB)

Hadnot backs up C/RG

Derek Dennis gives us more youth to develop inside

Datko has LT skills (and 2nd round ability) but is coming off injury. Can let him heal behind reliable (and limited) vet in Backus.

Joe Long has bloodlines and RT size/ability. Will be a hard worker, and can develop behind Colledge who will struggle.

This unit now is young and talented inside, and has two young OT's to develop outside behind reliable vets. Not perfect, but the best I can build in this offseason for long term success.

 

[Duckjake]

Two counter points:

1. Agreed, and I like Jeff's post, but one of the things he notes, and the Cardinals, through personel decisions seem to echo this fact, is the need for a "road-grader". Look at some of the players they have tried to get in that RG position in Herman Johnson, Deuce Lutui, they wanted Kendrick Vincet at one point. They picked up Chris Stewart (6'5", 351lbs) at the beginning of this offseason. Thus the situation at the RG position. That RG position I belive will be dealt with via the draft, and Hadnot will start out the year in that position and hopefully the rookie will over take the spot before the year is out.

2. I will not buy into the continuity situation. I would like to see some talent show up before we play that card. Are we really going to sit here and say that Levi Brown and Brandon Keith would get better if they just played with the same players for 3+ years? I am not. If your talent and skills are not adequate, all the continuity in the world is not going to make up for it.

I believe that most teams have a core, 2 or 3 players on the line that hold together the continuity. Thinking you will have the same 5 players on a line for more than 2 years tops is not realitistic.

Now going back to the core, the Cardinals don't have one, and haven't had one is a very, very, very long time. Thus if DeCastro is as good as they say he is, he is the pick at 13. Find another 2 players that consist of the core of that line, and keep those 3 players together (if the other two have NFL talent) for as long as you can.

I certainly see your point but I just don't buy that the Cards don't have the talent. These guys have been starters in the NFL too long to be the bums so many seem to think they are.

In 2004 the Cards had 3 first round draft picks on their offensive line. They finished 27th in total offense. It was their first year playing together

The only time in the last 25 years the Cards have had basically the same guys play together for any length of time was late 2007-2009. A period of prolific offense for Arizona. If you go look at other teams core offensive linemen more often than not you will see guys who have been on that line for years.

Here are most of the linemen for one of the top offenses in the NFL the last two years, the Saints:

Bushrod 4th round pick Saints 2007
Evans 4th round pick Saints 2006
Nicks 5th round pick Saints 2008
Strief 7th round pick Saints 2006
Del Puente UDFA
CBrown UDFA
Goodwin 5th round pick Jets 2002
Stinchcomb 2nd round pick Saints 2003

Two 4ths, a 5th a 7th and an UDFA and they won the 2011 Max Protector award.

However, I can live with two new Tackles as long as Colledge,Sendlein,and Hadnot or Lutui man the middle.

 

[Catfish]

I certainly see your point but I just don't buy that the Cards don't have the talent. These guys have been starters in the NFL too long to be the bums so many seem to think they are.


The only time in the last 25 years the Cards have had basically the same guys play together for any length of time was late 2007-2009. A period of prolific offense for Arizona. If you go look at other teams core offensive linemen more often than not you will see guys who have been on that line for years.



However, I can live with two new Tackles as long as Colledge,Sendlein,and Hadnot or Lutui man the middle.

Good thoughts DJ-----What I recall most about this period is that (when we chose to run), we could run over the right side of our line almost any time, and Lutui was the RG. He played with a mean streak, and was the ONLY O-lineman for the Cards who did so. He frequently got to the second level, and not only got there, but was devastating when he got there. Yet in all this, he was sufficient in pass protection, (try to recall when you heard that a pass protect breakdown was the fault of our RG during that time). It just didn't happen.

I know Deuce got into Whiz' doghouse over weight issues. I sometimes wonder if he isn't just as hard headed as Whiz is, and simply thought that he would watch his weight if and when Whiz could field someone who did it better that Deuce did it. This seems to bear some weight, (no pun intended), when you see that Deuce, despite all his time of in the doghouse, was still the best option at the end of last year when he stepped in for a failing Hadnot, and was simply the best we had on the field.

Additionally, Deuce claims that he gets it now about the weight thing. I don't know if that is true or not, or even whether it matters or not, (aside from keeping him in Whiz' dog house), but I think we owe it to ourselves to see if Deuce is sincere about this. He is, (after all), the local kid who always wanted to play for the Cardinals, AND he is the ONE offensive lineman who did it well, whether he was overweight or not. While he might have been able to challenge Whiz by playing overweight in his youth, he must realize that as he ages, that extra weight is a huge detriment to him. In any event, I would like to see what shape he is in before I set about to replace him. IF he has finally seen the light about the weight issue, then I would be very reluctant to replace the one man who has been the most successful on this line year in and year out, despite the doghouse issues.

Personally, I find it strange that Whiz chose to sit him over the weight issue, despite the fact that Deuce's play was never the issue. The weight thing seemed to be an artificial hurdle that Whiz chose for Deuce to overcome, and not an issue with his actual performance. That seemed to me to be like Whiz stubbornly sticking to starting Bryan Robinson at the nose tackle position, despite the fact that Robinson's actual performance showed that he was not capable of doing so. That was also mirrored with Whiz starting Joey Porter at the rush OLB slot, despite Porter's inability to produce anything even close to starting ability.

To me, Lutui seems to be living his dream, (playing for the Cards), and he has done it better than anyone else during his tenure. That should mean something, and IF he truly understands the need to keep the weight down now, it would seem a sad waste not to at least let him compete for that starting RG slot. After all, the ONLY thing that kept him out of the lineup was the HC, who CHOSE to sit him, if for nothing else than to teach him a lesson.

Like Duck Jake, I too would opt to try to work at replacing our tackles, (where real need has been shown for years), than to mess with continuity that has proven to work on the interior line. I would seek to get a free agent to start on the left side at tackle, then would draft one of the three OT's who are at the top of the list if one falls to us. If not there when we pick, then I would opt to trade back a few spaces, (adding an additional pick), and try for Mike Adams at about the 18-20 slot in round one. I would also opt to return D'Anthony Batiste, and maybe even Bryan Keith to compete for the tackle slots. It might just be possible that one of those two is ready to make the jump to starting in this league.

 

[WildBB]

Here is my idealistic scenario

FA
Sign Carl Nicks to play LG
Sign Jeff Backus to play LT

Draft
Draft David DeCatro in 1st round to play RG
Draft Andrew Datko(OT Fla St.) in the 4th round
Draft Derek Dennis (OG Temple) in the 6th round
Draft Joe Long (OT Wayne St, bro of Jake Long)

Move
Move Darryn Colledge to RT (He played LT in GB albeit poorly)

Starting Unit...
LT-Jeff Backus (dependable/limited vet)
LG-Carl Nicks (pro bowler)
C-Lyle Sendlein (ok)
RG-David DeCastro (potential pro bowler)
RT-Darryn Colledge (might play better at RT than LT where he was poor in GB)

Hadnot backs up C/RG

Derek Dennis gives us more youth to develop inside

Datko has LT skills (and 2nd round ability) but is coming off injury. Can let him heal behind reliable (and limited) vet in Backus.

Joe Long has bloodlines and RT size/ability. Will be a hard worker, and can develop behind Colledge who will struggle.

This unit now is young and talented inside, and has two young OT's to develop outside behind reliable vets. Not perfect, but the best I can build in this offseason for long term success.

I'd take that. Wouldn't mind Levi at RT though.

 

[Darkside]

Ok, make your case.

The offensive line situation is a tough situation. We only have two starters set in stone, IMHO. That would be Sendlein and College. Hadnot was challenged last year by Lutui, and Lutui has been the in doghouse so long I forgot he was on the team at times last year, so Hadnot is no certainty. Obviously both OT are up in the air at this point.

I sure as heck am no expert on the offensive line, and neither are any of us, thus the list of statements below is not to call out anyone's stupidity or wisdom, just a list of thoughts and options of what to do with this offensive line.

Cause lets face it. The Cardinals offensive line has been poor for an extremely long time. We have seen the Cardinals go to the Super Bowl, find pass rushers, and even find competent TE's for Pete's sake, but that offensive line still has not found a core unit to drive them.



Some statements I have heard about this offseason:

"Our interior line is fine, there is nothing we have to do to improve it"

"Levi Brown may be our best option at left tackle"

"Jared Gaither is our best prospect at left tackle"

"Levi Brown would make a good right tackle."

"Jeremy Bridges is not good enough to play either tackle position"

"Russ Grimm has the tools he needs to have a good offensive line"

"Russ Grimm is overrated, and it the main problem with our offensive line"

"Jeff Backus is worse than Levi Brown"

"Max Starks is worse than Levi Brown"

"Why don't we try Kareem McKenzie at left tackle?"

"Demetrius Bell is the best opportunity for the Cardinals to find a left tackle"

"Jonath Martin is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"Mike Adams is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"Riley Reiff is a lock for the Cardinals at 13, and will be the BPA at that spot"

"David DeCastro is going to be the BPA at #13, and is the safest pick for the Cardinals"



I will add some of my own thoughts/speculations:

The Cardinals should take a good look at King Dunlap for the right tackle position.

The Cardinals should see if Trai Essex has his weight problems under control he can be a good pick up for the Cardinals.

I really like Art Forst from Rutgers in the later rounds of the draft.

I am very high on Ryan Bartholomew, who is our "backup" center as of right now, spent all last season on the practice squad, and is an absolute BEAST of a man.

Here's my 2 cents, which most of ya'll are gonna hate on:

First of all is our line coach, Russ Grimm: I don't think he's a bad offensive line coach. He's in the HOF and that earns a lot of credibility with me. Doesn't mean he can coach a lick, but for me personally it lends credibility that he knows what he's doing and can look at tape objectively and recognize problems and weaknesses. Also, he's not a HOF player by himself in my opinion, the "Hogs" were an excellent line as a unit, and therefore I think he knows what it takes to excel as a unit .

I've said this before: there isn't one guy on our line that would start for another team. Some may not even make backup duty. Levi Brown is probably, as much as people may hate to admit it, the most talented lineman we have. He played RT and was a run-blocking specialist. But they draft him and move him to LT and ask him to protect the QB, who, incidentally, is going to throw 62% of the time. Russ Grimm doesn't draft dudes, he coaches what's in front of him.

And I've said this before: our whole offensive line strategy should probably change. I see two philosophies in the NFL regarding line coaching. Teams either get a great offensive line coach and ask them to coach up scrubs or they get a scrub coach and ask him to coach great draft pick talent or FA's. We do not have a talented offensive line. We don't even have a mediocre line as far as talent goes. We have a HOF line coach trying to coach up bad players. He's trying to coach them into mediocrity or respectability, with varying results. There's only so much money, and I have no problem with them spending the $$ on skill positions, which they've largely done.

That being said, asking Grimm to coach up this crapfest is like asking a dung beetle to work a pile--all he's ever going to do is make the pile of dung taller.

People act like we can't draft offensive line talent, and we had a huge debate about this in another thread, and my point then and now is that we're not trying to. We're trying to get the most value at the biggest bargain basement prices and we're asking Grimm to coach them up.

Perhaps he hasn't done that, but I think it's debatable, and I think anyone here would be hard pressed to prove that. They all have very little talent, and it's hard to tell if he's coached them to their ceiling already--it's not like they're HOFers or all pro's, where you can gauge their improvement from one season to the next; these ****'s are improving so incrementally due to a lack of talent. It's like staring at a snail to see how far it goes: you can watch it inch along in agony for an hour straight and it may not seem to move, and if you come back in a year, it's still only moved like a foot. Some of them just won't get any better no matter how great of a coach he is.

That being said, perhaps it's time to change the philosophy. But if you do that, you can only buy so much. You do that and we're going to sacrifice in skill positions because we're paying top dollar for Olineman. Is it worth letting a Campbell walk to get a future 10 year Olineman? Who's willing to do that? Do you let a DWash go to anchor the other side?

It's a tough situation, but by and large, I think they (the Cardinals) have the right approach. I still think it's hard to judge a coach like Grimm. It's like managing an employee with a lot of heart and work ethic but who lacks every other talent you'd want--the dude can't make spreadsheets, can't ten-key, can't use a word processor, whatever. It limits you bigtime.

 

[THESMEL]

I'll bet Deuce is the comeback player of the year in the NFL? any takers? I think Bridges is a quality back up tackle starting guard in roun scheme. and Levi Brown will get close to 10 million a year cause He is worth it! Tackles are hard to come by in the NFL, He is one of the few with SB starting experience... trash him all you want -- He is one of the most succcesssful players in the NFL...

With that said LD and Reggie Wells both started on other teams, and I heard the same poison spewed about LD. I think Levi is much closer to pro bowl on another team than he is closer to the bench.

I'll give Darkside credit on Deuce last year- I thought he was great and the Bengals sent him packing- Him and his one Keg Abs!

 

[Duckjake]

Perhaps he hasn't done that, but I think it's debatable, and I think anyone here would be hard pressed to prove that. They all have very little talent,

I'm not hating on your post but I still want to know how 5 guys can have started as many games in the NFL, 398 combined, almost 25 seasons worth, as Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein,Rex Hadnot, and Duece Lutui and not have any talent.

And if they don't then you have to fault the coaches in Arizona, Green Bay, Cleveland and Miami for playing these guys.

 

[Darkside]

I'm not hating on your post but I still want to know how 5 guys can have started as many games in the NFL, 398 combined, almost 25 seasons worth, as Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein,Rex Hadnot, and Duece Lutui and not have any talent.

And if they don't then you have to fault the coaches in Arizona, Green Bay, Cleveland and Miami for playing these guys.

But we're the only one who kept them. If they were good those other teams wouldn't have let them go.

My point is we try to keep and develop lesser talent with a HOF coach.

And you can hate on my post, that's totally okay, I can take it, I expect a lot of people to hate on it, but I still think it's the truth. I only post what I think is true.

 

[Duckjake]

But we're the only one who kept them. If they were good those other teams wouldn't have let them go.

My point is we try to keep and develop lesser talent with a HOF coach.

And you can hate on my post, that's totally okay, I can take it, I expect a lot of people to hate on it, but I still think it's the truth. I only post what I think is true.

Colledge played 5 years for Green Bay. Started 76 games. Green Bay had the #2,#8,#6,#9, and #3 ranked offenses while Colledge was playing for them.

To think that teams only let go players who aren't any good is naive. Boldin, Dansby, Rolle, Antonio Smith, Calvin Pace??? All good players for us and still good players for the teams they're with now.

If teams only let go bad players what in the heck are the Cards doing paying Kolb, Colledge and Bradley multiple millions?

Teams let good players go because they can't afford to keep them.

Grimm was a HOF player not a HOF coach. The two are distinctly different. There is a reason the vast majority of coaches in the NFL never played professional football. High level coaching is a profession that most involved get into right after college. Just like most other professions. Just because a guy could block 20-30 years ago doesn't automatically mean he can teach others to block today.

 

[Darkside]

Colledge played 5 years for Green Bay. Started 76 games. Green Bay had the #2,#8,#6,#9, and #3 ranked offenses while Colledge was playing for them.

To think that teams only let go players who aren't any good is naive. Boldin, Dansby, Rolle, Antonio Smith, Calvin Pace??? All good players for us and still good players for the teams they're with now.

If teams only let go bad players what in the heck are the Cards doing paying Kolb, Colledge and Bradley multiple millions?

Teams let good players go because they can't afford to keep them.

Grimm was a HOF player not a HOF coach. The two are distinctly different. There is a reason the vast majority of coaches in the NFL never played professional football. High level coaching is a profession that most involved get into right after college. Just like most other professions. Just because a guy could block 20-30 years ago doesn't automatically mean he can teach others to block today.

Really fine post, Duckjake.

 

[Jasper]

When was the last time we had an offensive lineman in the pro bowl?

 

[PitchShifter]

Colledge played 5 years for Green Bay. Started 76 games. Green Bay had the #2,#8,#6,#9, and #3 ranked offenses while Colledge was playing for them.

To think that teams only let go players who aren't any good is naive.

True, but I remember reading Packer's forums at the time and Colledge was derided by many there and considered the weak point of their line and not starting material, albeit from a fanbase point of view.

 

[WildBB]

I'll bet Deuce is the comeback player of the year in the NFL?

Your on.