The BASK Draft Board Index

[Mitch]

A few years ago I started writing threads like this one, only I called it "Cardinal Tough." What I and others on this board were questioning is the Cardinals' draft philosophy under Rod Graves---as in drafting for talent and potential, but not paying major heed to intangibles such as toughness, competitiveness and leadership.

A fair number of the players Graves drafted just weren't cutting it---and the coaches were having difficulty coaching these players up. As a result, the team's depth was thin and the team as a whole was soft.

So, last year, Steve Keim gets promoted to GM and Bruce Arians was appointed as the new head coach and suddenly we are hearing them reference the importance of finding "gym rats," "players who love the game of football," players with "high-motors" and the kind of requisite "toughness" and "leadership" that builds championship caliber teams.

I've heard Steve Keim and Bruce Arians say they look for team captain types.

This has been music to my ears and I imagine it has been to yours as well.

Now that we are heading toward BASK's second draft---with a little help from ESPN's Scouts' Inc. and their player ratings (which for the most part I think is a solid and accurate resource), I believe we can identify the kind of players that are high on the BASK Draft Board Index.

While every player on the Scouts' Inc.'s board is rated on 12 different categories---I have pared it down to the three categories that matter most:

1---Intangibles (Leadership/Character)
2---Toughness (Motor, Competitiveness/Instincts)
3---Production

The Scouts' Inc. scale ratings go as follows:

1---Exceptional
2---Above Average
3---Average
4---Below Average
5---Marginal

So, take a close look at how the Top 78 players on their board stack up in these three categories---and I have have bolded in red the ones that based on these factors may likely be players who are high on the BASK Board. (I counted the skill players who have a total of 6 points or fewer and 7 or fewer for TEs and DTs).

1. Clowney, DE: Intangibles: 4; Toughness/Motor: 3; Production: 2
2. Robinson, T: 2---1---1
3. Mack, OLB: 2---2---1
4. Watkins, WR: 4---2---1
5. Matthews, T: 1---1---1
6. Lewan, T: 2---1---1
7. Evans, WR: 3---1---1
8. Mosely, ILB: 1---2---1
9. Bortles, QB: 1---2---2
10. Donald, DE: 1---2---1
11. Ebron, TE: 3---3---2
12. Clinton-Dix, S: 3---1---3
13. Moses, T: 4---2---1
14. Martin, T: 1---2---1
15. Bridgewater, QB: 2---1---1
16. Manziel, QB: 4---2---1
17. Dennard, CB: 1---1---2
18. Cooks, WR: 1---1---1
19. Beckham, WR: 2---2---2
20. Pryor, S: 2---2---2
21. Gilbert, CB: 3---2---1
22. Hageman, DT: 4---4---2
23. Jernigan, DT: 3---2---2
24. Nix, DT: 3---3---2
25. Lee, WR: 1---2---1
26: Roby, CB: 4---4---1
27. Verrett, CB: 2---1---1
28. Fuller, CB: 1---2---2
29. Shazier, LB: 3---2---1
30. Barr, OLB: 1---2---3
31. Ealy, DE: 1---2---3
32. Benjamin, WR: 3---2---3
33. Kouandijo, T: 2---3---2
34. Ford, OLB: 1---1---2
35. Attoachu, OLB: 1---3---2
36. Bitonio, T: 1---1---2
37. Tuitt, DE: 3---4---2
38. Borland, LB: 1---1---1
39. Hyde, RB: 4---2---2
40. Latimer, WR: 2---1---2
41. Lawrence, DE: 4---3---3
42. Bucannon, S: 2---3---1
43. Su'a-Filo, G: 1---2---1
44. Jean-Baptiste, CB: 2---3---2
45. Crichton, OLB: 1---1---1
46. Amaro, TE: 4---2---1
47. Joyner, S/CB: 1---1---1
48. Ward, S: 4---3---1
49. Seferian-Jenkins, TE: 4---4---1
50. James, T: 2---3---1
51. Adams, WR: 2---2---1
52. Landry, WR: 1---1---2
53. Sankey, RB: 1---2---1
54: Martin, C: 1---1---2
55. Savage, QB: 2---3---3
56. Niklas, TE: 2---2---3
57. Matthews, WR: 2---2---1
58. Richardson, T: 3---3---1
59. Richburg, C: 1---2---1
60. Van Noy, OLB: 2---1---1
61. Purifoy, CB: 3---3---2
62. Garoppolo, QB: 1---2---2
63. Mewhort, T: 1---2---2
64: Easley, DT: 2---1---3
65. Richardson, WR: 3---3---3
66. McCarron, QB: 3---1---1
67. Hill, RB: 5---1---2
68. Ellington, WR: 1---1---3
69. Urban, DT: 2---2---3
70. Breeland, CB: 2---2---3
71. Brooks, CB: 2---2---2
72. Jones, DT: 2---2---3
73. Thomas, G/T: 3---3---2
74. McGill, CB: No ratings yet
75: Bryant, WR: 4---2---4
76. Fiedorowicz, TE: 2---2---3
77. Herron, WR: 1---2---3
78. Carr, QB: 1---3---1

If there is any player you would like to give more info on and the reasons they gave for the rating, I would be happy to do so, as I have an ESPN Insider account.

Same goes for any player not on this list.

Did you notice 5 players aced all three categories?

The 1---1---1 Index:

5. Jake Mathews, T, Texas A&M
18. Brandin Cooks, WR, Oregon St.
38. Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin
45. Scott Crichton, OLB/DE, Oregon St.
47. Lamarcus Joyner, CB/S, Florida St.

The 4 Total Point Index (1---2---1, 1---1---2 or 2---1---1)

2. Greg Robinson, T, Auburn
6. Taylor Lewan, T, Michigan
8. C.J. Mosely, ILB, Alabama
10. Aaron Donald, DE, Pittsburgh
14. Zach Martin, T, Notre Dame
15. Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Louisville
17. Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan St.
25. Marqise Lee, WR, USC
27. Jason Verrett, CB, TCU
34. Dee Ford, OLB/DE, Auburn
36. Joel Bitonio, T, Nevada
43. Xavier Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA
52. Jarvis Landry, WR, LSU
53. Bishop Sankey, RB, Washington
54. Marcus Martin, C, USC
59. Weston Richburg, C, Colorado St.
60. Kyle Van Noy, OLB, BYU

It will be interesting to see if the BASK Board looks very similar to this----

 

[DoTheDew]

I've never been a fan of grading every player in the draft's leadership/character on a scale. In reality, most of these guys we know nothing about their leadership and character. There's really only 3 ratings:

1- Proven good character (guys like Tebow)
2- Proven bad character (Matheiu would have fallen under this category before the draft)
3- Unknowns (90% of the draft prospects every year)

I really don't think it's fair to most of the guys on that list to say they have more or less character and leadership ability than anyone else.

 

[Mitch]

I've never been a fan of grading every player in the draft's leadership/character on a scale. In reality, most of these guys we know nothing about their leadership and character. There's really only 3 ratings:

1- Proven good character (guys like Tebow)
2- Proven bad character (Matheiu would have fallen under this category before the draft)
3- Unknowns (90% of the draft prospects every year)

I really don't think it's fair to most of the guys on that list to say they have more or less character and leadership ability than anyone else.

These days---teams are doing their due diligence in terms of character---more than ever. And that's a good thing, isn't it?

Tyrann Mathieu's case is one where Steve Keim did more than his share of due diligence. Plus, he took him in the 3rd round---Mathieu is a first round talent.

When GMs like Keim are trying to separate high ranked players as potential 1st and 2nd round picks---the intangibles can be real difference makers.

Last year, for example, Steve Keim looked very closely at ILB Kiko Alonso (suspensions at Oregon and maturity issues) and wound up favoring Kevin Minter. Minter's leadership at LSU was very likely the difference maker.

Now---Alonso looks like a great second round pick for the Bills, that is if he can stay clean. Minter got stuck behind two Pro Bowl caliber players last year and now he gets his chance to play---we will see in the long run who the better pick was.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, all I know that it's a pleasure that we have a guy like SK calling the shots. I know that you go back to the days of George Boone, and at the time I had no idea of his capabilities. All I knew was that many of the teams' picks were disappointing. And I don't mean in hindsight, but at the time they were made, which I usually read in the next day's newspaper.

 

[kerouac9]

Last year, for example, Steve Keim looked very closely at ILB Kiko Alonso (suspensions at Oregon and maturity issues) and wound up favoring Kevin Minter. Minter's leadership at LSU was very likely the difference maker.

I challenge you to support any part of this except that the Cards drafted Minter instead of Alonso. All this point proves is that if you over-weight character evaluation, you're going to take a guy who plays one defensive snap all year over the defensive rookie of the year.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, all I know that it's a pleasure that we have a guy like SK calling the shots. I know that you go back to the days of George Boone, and at the time I had no idea of his capabilities. All I knew was that many of the teams' picks were disappointing. And I don't mean in hindsight, but at the time they were made, which I usually read in the next day's newspaper.

Garth---I don't know if you ever saw this because i've posted it before, but one year (I am pretty sure it was the year the Cardinals picked K John Lee from UCLA in the second round---yes, in 1986 it was---Anthony Bell in 1st round), I called the Cardinals' FO the day after the draft saying that i was an NFC East beat writer from New York who wished to speak with George Boone.

Much to my surprise---they connected me right to him---and he spent a half an hour with me going over his thoughts about every pick. Honestly, his rationale for each pick and how each player fit what he was looking for was persuasive. Of course, back then all we had was Mel Kiper (whom I have also talked to numerous times at length---and has always been very nice to me).

 

[juza76]

I challenge you to support any part of this except that the Cards drafted Minter instead of Alonso. All this point proves is that if you over-weight character evaluation, you're going to take a guy who plays one defensive snap all year over the defensive rookie of the year.

alonso would have had the same impact in our defense.
what was your opinion after navorro bowman first season..
can we just wait after this season if he was a bad pick..in college minter was better and was considered better player and with better grade in most draft sites

 

[BW52]

These days---teams are doing their due diligence in terms of character---more than ever. And that's a good thing, isn't it?

Tyrann Mathieu's case is one where Steve Keim did more than his share of due diligence. Plus, he took him in the 3rd round---Mathieu is a first round talent.

When GMs like Keim are trying to separate high ranked players as potential 1st and 2nd round picks---the intangibles can be real difference makers.

Last year, for example, Steve Keim looked very closely at ILB Kiko Alonso (suspensions at Oregon and maturity issues) and wound up favoring Kevin Minter. Minter's leadership at LSU was very likely the difference maker.

Now---Alonso looks like a great second round pick for the Bills, that is if he can stay clean. Minter got stuck behind two Pro Bowl caliber players last year and now he gets his chance to play---we will see in the long run who the better pick was.

I think you are pretty close in your thinking.As you get past the first 2 rounds into more prospects intangibles and character will make a difference.If a player worked hard and was coachable and produced in college that could tip the scales in his favor over a guy who has production but is a distraction with character or other personality issues.A big risk guy like Colt Lyerla TE will likely go undrafted due to his arrests and other issues.Before the season he was a mid-round TE,now he will likely be a UDFA if that.

 

[Russ Smith]

I challenge you to support any part of this except that the Cards drafted Minter instead of Alonso. All this point proves is that if you over-weight character evaluation, you're going to take a guy who plays one defensive snap all year over the defensive rookie of the year.

The other thing is it's almost impossible to actually measure leadership and character. Kyle Van Noy is the classic example, the Lions took Ziggy Ansah last year, he credits Van Noy for mentoring him and teaching him how to play football. Everyone that coached Van Noy at BYU loves him, gym rat, works hard, great leader etc. Then you look at what happened BEFORE BYU and if you didn't know him from Adam you'd immediately peg him as questionable character. In trouble with the law more than once, nearly lost his scholarship twice, violated rules while at BYU etc. So is he a great leader with poor character, is he a guy who matured and now has great character?

Or next year when presumably Jameis Winston is in the draft. The players at FSU rave about his leadership qualities, there's clearly going to be a TON of questions about his character.

I think in the end if a kid has talent like Van Noy or Winston, people are willing to overlook questions about character or give them the benefit of the doubt they will overcome them.

In the end most teams still just take the guy they think is going to be the best football player and hope all the other stuff works out. Very few teams actually have the cajones to take a great player off their board over character, what if he turns out to be an All Pro? Look at SF and Aldon Smith, it looks like they may finally have decided to crack down on him but essentially because the NFL is probably going to suspend him anyways.

There are certainly tough players and not so tough players but character is somethign that is damn near impossible to judge with someone you're going to draft.

 

[kerouac9]

alonso would have had the same impact in our defense.
what was your opinion after navorro bowman first season..
can we just wait after this season if he was a bad pick..in college minter was better and was considered better player and with better grade in most draft sites

Erm... I guess I admire your psychic abilities. Maybe the Cards wouldn't have needed to sign Dansby if Alonzo was impressive in minicamps, as Minter and Brinkley clearly weren't.

I'm not saying that Minter was a bad pick. He just clearly was a poor value.

Also, Navorro Bowman was taken with the 92nd overall pick--in the third round. The expectations of third round picks are different than those guys chosen toward the top of the second round.

 

[juza76]

Erm... I guess I admire your psychic abilities. Maybe the Cards wouldn't have needed to sign Dansby if Alonzo was impressive in minicamps, as Minter and Brinkley clearly weren't.

I'm not saying that Minter was a bad pick. He just clearly was a poor value.

Also, Navorro Bowman was taken with the 92nd overall pick--in the third round. The expectations of third round picks are different than those guys chosen toward the top of the second round.

so u think that alonso after impressing coaches with his plays during very competitive mini camps (pad off-no contact)would have been able to get the starting position ,and dansby wouldnt have been signed(dansby signed may 10)

i very admire your psychic abilities too

 

[Mitch]

so u think that alonso after impressing coaches with his plays during very competitive mini camps (pad off-no contact)would have been able to get the starting position ,and dansby wouldnt have been signed(dansby signed may 10)

i very admire your psychic abilities too

Dansby was signed because he suddenly and unexpectedly became available and was willing to sign at a bargain salary (not to mention that the Cardinals still had to account for Washington's 4 game suspension)---

Dansby wasn't signed because of what was happening in the Cardinals' mini-camps. I agree with you, Juza...if the Cardinals had taken Alonso at #45 instead of Minter, the Cardinals would have still jumped all over Dansby. No brainer on that one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Erm... I guess I admire your psychic abilities. Maybe the Cards wouldn't have needed to sign Dansby if Alonzo was impressive in minicamps, as Minter and Brinkley clearly weren't.

I'm not saying that Minter was a bad pick. He just clearly was a poor value.

I thought we signed Dansby after it was apparent that Washington was going to be suspended and we could get him on the cheap. maybe I'm wrong on that timeline, but I feel like price and suspension had more to do with the Dansby signing then the fact that Minter wasn't impressive in mini-camp.

regardless...does it ever get boring beating this horse to death? proof will be in the pudding soon enough, won't it?

 

[Krangodnzr]

regardless...does it ever get boring beating this horse to death? proof will be in the pudding soon enough, won't it?

LOL

 

[kerouac9]

I thought we signed Dansby after it was apparent that Washington was going to be suspended and we could get him on the cheap. maybe I'm wrong on that timeline, but I feel like price and suspension had more to do with the Dansby signing then the fact that Minter wasn't impressive in mini-camp.

regardless...does it ever get boring beating this horse to death? proof will be in the pudding soon enough, won't it?

I didn't bring it up--Mitch did, suggesting that character concerns about the reigning NFL rookie of the year made Keim reasonably rate Minter ahead. I asked him to support that position.

I'm agnostic on the Minter drafting. We'll find out soon enough--he only has to beat out Lorenzo Alexander for a starting job.

 

[DoTheDew]

These days---teams are doing their due diligence in terms of character---more than ever. And that's a good thing, isn't it?

It is a good thing, but no amount of due diligence can tell you the whole story about a person's leadership ability or their character. Sometimes, the simple change in life circumstances of becoming a millionaire overnight changes someones character and no amount of due diligence can predict that.

I remember Dave McGinnis placed a high value on character and it didn't result in wins. It also didn't always result in guys who had good character.

My point is, I'd be willing to wager my life savings that some of those guys who Scouts inc grades as 1s for intangibles never show leadership/get into off the field trouble, and some of those 3s or 4s end up becoming leaders and having spotless careers off the field.

 

[WildBB]

I've never been a fan of grading every player in the draft's leadership/character on a scale. In reality, most of these guys we know nothing about their leadership and character. There's really only 3 ratings:

1- Proven good character (guys like Tebow)
2- Proven bad character (Matheiu would have fallen under this category before the draft)
3- Unknowns (90% of the draft prospects every year)

I really don't think it's fair to most of the guys on that list to say they have more or less character and leadership ability than anyone else.

Perceptions are formed a lot on heresay. But your right, it isn't right.

Guy like Aldon Smith didn't really have any red flags, then someone who does has a model career. You just have to meet with them face to face and ask your questions and go with your gut feeling.

 

[Hollywood]

Some people are just better at reading others.

The story goes that when my grandmother first met one of my uncle's girlfriends. My grandmother was later asked what she thought of her and responded simply, "She's a lesbian." Which caused a monor family uproar.

Long story short they got married and she ended up leaving my uncle for a woman

Some people are better than most at reading others and if SK is one of these people then I will gladly accept passing on Alonzo for Minter.

 

[Cardiac]

Just because determining correctly who has good character and who doesn't is not foolproof doesn't mean you shouldn't try to grade it. I believe that measuring players athleticism is the most accurate part of the process. Measuring their "heart", character and "want to" is the difficult part.

 

[cardpa]

Some people are just better at reading others.

The story goes that when my grandmother first met one of my uncle's girlfriends. My grandmother was later asked what she thought of her and responded simply, "She's a lesbian." Which caused a monor family uproar.

Long story short they got married and she ended up leaving my uncle for a woman

Some people are better than most at reading others and if SK is one of these people then I will gladly accept passing on Alonzo for Minter.

Agree with this, some people have an innate ability to read people and with amazing accuracy. I hope SK is one of them.

 

[Mitch]

Agree with this, some people have an innate ability to read people and with amazing accuracy. I hope SK is one of them.

One of the great quotes of all time, imo:

"When a player shows you who he is...believe him." Bill Parcells.

What Parcells meant is that when players show immaturity and poor decision making, don't think you are going to change that.

This is what is so polarizing about Jadaveon Clowney---his own head coach couldn't in all good faith rave about his character and work ethic.

 

[kerouac9]

One of the great quotes of all time, imo:

"When a player shows you who he is...believe him." Bill Parcells.

What Parcells meant is that when players show immaturity and poor decision making, don't think you are going to change that.

This is what is so polarizing about Jadaveon Clowney---his own head coach couldn't in all good faith rave about his character and work ethic.

Erm... I don't know about that. Bill Parcells dealt with a lot of knuckleheads in his career, including Lawrence Taylor.

I think that Parcells was talking more about guys like Tim Tebow--guys who might be good with a little technical refinement, but who likely aren't going to take to that.

Putting Clowney under the microscope is madness. The Jags would be doing backflips if he fell to them--he's clearly better than any player in this draft.

 

[Chopper0080]

Erm... I don't know about that. Bill Parcells dealt with a lot of knuckleheads in his career, including Lawrence Taylor.

I think that Parcells was talking more about guys like Tim Tebow--guys who might be good with a little technical refinement, but who likely aren't going to take to that.

Putting Clowney under the microscope is madness. The Jags would be doing backflips if he fell to them--he's clearly better than any player in this draft.

Yeah, Clowney is the best player in this draft, hands down.

I wouldn't touch a QB in the top 5. My top two are Bortles and Carr.

I like Khalil Mack but I can't say that he is ever going to be more than a 12 - 15 sack guy. He is probably the #2 player IMO.

Greg Robinson is a beast.

Sammy Watkins reminds me of a faster Anquan Boldin.

Jake Matthews is a 10 year+ player.

Dennard is 5th best CB in this draft behind Gilbert, Fuller, Verrett, and Roby IMO.

 

[juza76]

Yeah, Clowney is the best player in this draft, hands down.

I wouldn't touch a QB in the top 5. My top two are Bortles and Carr.

I like Khalil Mack but I can't say that he is ever going to be more than a 12 - 15 sack guy. He is probably the #2 player IMO.

Greg Robinson is a beast.

Sammy Watkins reminds me of a faster Anquan Boldin.

Jake Matthews is a 10 year+ player.

Dennard is 5th best CB in this draft behind Gilbert, Fuller, Verrett, and Roby IMO.

totally agree,can i ask u few questions( also id like if mitch can answer too)
who do u prefer between attachou and marcus smith?
how do u explain the cards interest in center weston richburg?

 

[Totally_Red]

Yeah, Clowney is the best player in this draft, hands down.

I wouldn't touch a QB in the top 5. My top two are Bortles and Carr.

I like Khalil Mack but I can't say that he is ever going to be more than a 12 - 15 sack guy. He is probably the #2 player IMO.

Greg Robinson is a beast.

Sammy Watkins reminds me of a faster Anquan Boldin.

Jake Matthews is a 10 year+ player.

Dennard is 5th best CB in this draft behind Gilbert, Fuller, Verrett, and Roby IMO.

Dennard is dropping fast. The closer teams look, the more he looks like a penalty machine in the NFL. He seems like a classic case of benefitting from the players around him IMO.