The Cardinals might have just changed their identity a bit...

Jetstream Green

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For the most part this team is still a finesse team. This is a good finesse team, so by not means does it make them soft but they for the most part do not win through a physical nature. Now with injuries, there are two players which though might not make them a official styled physical team, they surely are not the same. No way one can replace a guy like Honey Badger but Swearinger is big and the man hits. HB is physical but at 180 pounds that only goes so far, and Swearinger will clean your clock. In his first game he had a brutal hit and made his presence known. Yes, the caution on him is stupid hits for penalties but it is a dimension we have not had since A-dub. Then we have another DJ, David Johnson which totally makes this offense down right frightening with his size and speed. CJ was a pleasant surprise because he was much more physical in between the tackles than I was aware and he has my respect as a true every down back, but David Johnson has fresh legs and he will lay the wood on you... this team just acquired a lil' physical attitude :)
 

devilalum

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Guarenteed Rogers will find somebody for a touchdown that #32 would have prevented.

sent from a fone
 
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Jetstream Green

Jetstream Green

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Guarenteed Rogers will find somebody for a touchdown that #32 would have prevented.

sent from a fone

I guarantee somebody on offense from Green Bay is going to get lit up (hopefully without any penalty), and it could be Rodgers and I also guarantee somebody in the Packer defense is going to get ran over by the other DJ... just saying :)
 

DVontel

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Guarenteed Rogers will find somebody for a touchdown that #32 would have prevented.

sent from a fone

Maybe.

He also has given up a fair share of TDs. More so than any other DBs/LBs outside of Powers I believe.
 

devilalum

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I guarantee somebody will win the lottery tonight.

What if it rolls over?

My point was that he's a play maker. Sure, next man up but you're gonna lose something, a touchdown, an INT, a key tackle....

If you could just plug any guy off the street in there every team in the league would have a great defense.
 

Darkside

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It's easy to say a team is finesse when they're as prolific in passing as we are. Look at the greatest show on turf and many of the old SF teams, they were also labeled as finesse at the time--but history and stats have proven that both of those teams were physical and had dominant lines. The same thing applies to our Cardinals.

When any team wins 12 games, or has an 8 game winning streak, as we do, you're a physical team on the lines of scrimmage. We've also only lost 1 road game. You can't play as many different types of teams as we have, at home and on the road, and only lose 2, without being physical. It's impossible. Chance and luck and scheme amongst those opponents means you should lose more than 2 if you're finesse. We beat teams down by the 4th quarter.

We still play in the most physical division in football and it's not close. The NFC West is like the old NFC East. That means we play 6 games against the most physical teams in the NFL.

I've complained about our LB's crashing the lines and looking for someone to hit, like they're looking for someone to block them, but that's a lot more physical than spin moves, loops and stunts. Maybe there's a reason we're so dominant in the 4th quarter. By the 4th quarter, that RB or TE picking up the blitz is probably thinking, "Crap, here he comes again." I'd be very interested to know our opponents record the game after they play us. Very interested.

Defensive stat of a physical team: Our Cardinals are ranked 4th in the NFL in forced fumbles at 18 (!). Carolina is 2nd at 21.

More supporting evidence: We give up yards galore, but we're #7 in scoring against us. Teams average 19 against us. We're #1 in scoring @ 31.8, NE is just behind us. Offensively, total yards isn't that close, we're #1 at 5920 on the year, a whopping 422 per game.

Offensively we're physical and that was before DJ started, though I think he elevates our whole offense. Our line is really physical, and that starts with Iupati and Veldheer. Those two are road-graders and pancakers. Before DJ's awesomeness they were physical. Our running game was top 5 with CJ before he went out. We're ranked #5 in the NFL in sacks given up. That's exceptional when you consider Palmer is #1 in yards attempted per pass. He's throwing it deeper on average, by far, than any other QB, and we're ranked 5th in sacks conceded. Exceptional.

Lastly, I'd like to point out how awesome Veldheer is. Remember who we had before him? And before that? Ad infinitum. This guy...he's so consistent, so good, that we never mention his name. Every game goes by, 500+ yards on offense, game after game, no mention. He's nails every single game and so consistent it's ridiculous. When he does make a mistake, it's usually a holding to protect his QB, it's rare, but I'm cool with that. This guy is like the rock of Gibraltar and I think it's understated what a huge difference he's made on our team. Without him there is no Palmer for MVP discussion at all. The DJ run everyone raves about (and it was awesome, let's not kid ourselves), Veldheer is the tackle coming all the way across the line, across the field, to level two guys hanging on DJ to break him free. He takes them both out as they're grasping and hanging on him. Veldheer is really, really good. You don't expect a LT to pull like that and move laterally so well, but he does it very well. He's a road grader and an exceptional pass blocker. Very under-rated IMO.
 

DutchmanAZ

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What if it rolls over?

My point was that he's a play maker. Sure, next man up but you're gonna lose something, a touchdown, an INT, a key tackle....

If you could just plug any guy off the street in there every team in the league would have a great defense.

#see New England Patriots.
 

Cardiac

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It's easy to say a team is finesse when they're as prolific in passing as we are. Look at the greatest show on turf and many of the old SF teams, they were also labeled as finesse at the time--but history and stats have proven that both of those teams were physical and had dominant lines. The same thing applies to our Cardinals.

When any team wins 12 games, or has an 8 game winning streak, as we do, you're a physical team on the lines of scrimmage. We've also only lost 1 road game. You can't play as many different types of teams as we have, at home and on the road, and only lose 2, without being physical. It's impossible. Chance and luck and scheme amongst those opponents means you should lose more than 2 if you're finesse. We beat teams down by the 4th quarter.

We still play in the most physical division in football and it's not close. The NFC West is like the old NFC East. That means we play 6 games against the most physical teams in the NFL.

I've complained about our LB's crashing the lines and looking for someone to hit, like they're looking for someone to block them, but that's a lot more physical than spin moves, loops and stunts. Maybe there's a reason we're so dominant in the 4th quarter. By the 4th quarter, that RB or TE picking up the blitz is probably thinking, "Crap, here he comes again." I'd be very interested to know our opponents record the game after they play us. Very interested.

Defensive stat of a physical team: Our Cardinals are ranked 4th in the NFL in forced fumbles at 18 (!). Carolina is 2nd at 21.

More supporting evidence: We give up yards galore, but we're #7 in scoring against us. Teams average 19 against us. We're #1 in scoring @ 31.8, NE is just behind us. Offensively, total yards isn't that close, we're #1 at 5920 on the year, a whopping 422 per game.

Offensively we're physical and that was before DJ started, though I think he elevates our whole offense. Our line is really physical, and that starts with Iupati and Veldheer. Those two are road-graders and pancakers. Before DJ's awesomeness they were physical. Our running game was top 5 with CJ before he went out. We're ranked #5 in the NFL in sacks given up. That's exceptional when you consider Palmer is #1 in yards attempted per pass. He's throwing it deeper on average, by far, than any other QB, and we're ranked 5th in sacks conceded. Exceptional.

Lastly, I'd like to point out how awesome Veldheer is. Remember who we had before him? And before that? Ad infinitum. This guy...he's so consistent, so good, that we never mention his name. Every game goes by, 500+ yards on offense, game after game, no mention. He's nails every single game and so consistent it's ridiculous. When he does make a mistake, it's usually a holding to protect his QB, it's rare, but I'm cool with that. This guy is like the rock of Gibraltar and I think it's understated what a huge difference he's made on our team. Without him there is no Palmer for MVP discussion at all. The DJ run everyone raves about (and it was awesome, let's not kid ourselves), Veldheer is the tackle coming all the way across the line, across the field, to level two guys hanging on DJ to break him free. He takes them both out as they're grasping and hanging on him. Veldheer is really, really good. You don't expect a LT to pull like that and move laterally so well, but he does it very well. He's a road grader and an exceptional pass blocker. Very under-rated IMO.

Quality top notch post.

I thought JV might have a shot at the pro bowl but we all know it's part talent and part popularity contest.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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It's easy to say a team is finesse when they're as prolific in passing as we are. Look at the greatest show on turf and many of the old SF teams, they were also labeled as finesse at the time--but history and stats have proven that both of those teams were physical and had dominant lines. The same thing applies to our Cardinals.

When any team wins 12 games, or has an 8 game winning streak, as we do, you're a physical team on the lines of scrimmage. We've also only lost 1 road game. You can't play as many different types of teams as we have, at home and on the road, and only lose 2, without being physical. It's impossible. Chance and luck and scheme amongst those opponents means you should lose more than 2 if you're finesse. We beat teams down by the 4th quarter.

We still play in the most physical division in football and it's not close. The NFC West is like the old NFC East. That means we play 6 games against the most physical teams in the NFL.

I've complained about our LB's crashing the lines and looking for someone to hit, like they're looking for someone to block them, but that's a lot more physical than spin moves, loops and stunts. Maybe there's a reason we're so dominant in the 4th quarter. By the 4th quarter, that RB or TE picking up the blitz is probably thinking, "Crap, here he comes again." I'd be very interested to know our opponents record the game after they play us. Very interested.

Defensive stat of a physical team: Our Cardinals are ranked 4th in the NFL in forced fumbles at 18 (!). Carolina is 2nd at 21.

More supporting evidence: We give up yards galore, but we're #7 in scoring against us. Teams average 19 against us. We're #1 in scoring @ 31.8, NE is just behind us. Offensively, total yards isn't that close, we're #1 at 5920 on the year, a whopping 422 per game.

Offensively we're physical and that was before DJ started, though I think he elevates our whole offense. Our line is really physical, and that starts with Iupati and Veldheer. Those two are road-graders and pancakers. Before DJ's awesomeness they were physical. Our running game was top 5 with CJ before he went out. We're ranked #5 in the NFL in sacks given up. That's exceptional when you consider Palmer is #1 in yards attempted per pass. He's throwing it deeper on average, by far, than any other QB, and we're ranked 5th in sacks conceded. Exceptional.

Lastly, I'd like to point out how awesome Veldheer is. Remember who we had before him? And before that? Ad infinitum. This guy...he's so consistent, so good, that we never mention his name. Every game goes by, 500+ yards on offense, game after game, no mention. He's nails every single game and so consistent it's ridiculous. When he does make a mistake, it's usually a holding to protect his QB, it's rare, but I'm cool with that. This guy is like the rock of Gibraltar and I think it's understated what a huge difference he's made on our team. Without him there is no Palmer for MVP discussion at all. The DJ run everyone raves about (and it was awesome, let's not kid ourselves), Veldheer is the tackle coming all the way across the line, across the field, to level two guys hanging on DJ to break him free. He takes them both out as they're grasping and hanging on him. Veldheer is really, really good. You don't expect a LT to pull like that and move laterally so well, but he does it very well. He's a road grader and an exceptional pass blocker. Very under-rated IMO.
Let's not forget about our receivers and tight ends as well. Fitz, Floyd and Fells are all very physical both with the ball and when blocking. Our secondary is also a pretty physical bunch Rashad lays some pretty good hits and so does Minter and Buc. People overlook it, but PP is a very physical corner and that plays a big role in his ability to shut down receivers this year because he gets in the receivers grill at the line of scrimmage and disrupts their routes.
 

daves

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More supporting evidence: We give up yards galore, but we're #7 in scoring against us.

Not disputing the main points of your fine post, but actually, the Cardinals are 7th in yards against and 6th in points against... not much of a discrepancy to attribute to physicality.

Teams average 19 against us. We're #1 in scoring @ 31.8, NE is just behind us.

Actually, the Cardinals are 2nd in scoring - the Panthers are 4 points ahead (32.1 ppg).

Just keepin' it real!

...dbs
 

Darkside

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Not disputing the main points of your fine post, but actually, the Cardinals are 7th in yards against and 6th in points against... not much of a discrepancy to attribute to physicality.



Actually, the Cardinals are 2nd in scoring - the Panthers are 4 points ahead (32.1 ppg).

Just keepin' it real!

...dbs

Minor discrepancy but where did you get your stats? Mine were from ESPN.
 

Darkside

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Let's not forget about our receivers and tight ends as well. Fitz, Floyd and Fells are all very physical both with the ball and when blocking. Our secondary is also a pretty physical bunch Rashad lays some pretty good hits and so does Minter and Buc. People overlook it, but PP is a very physical corner and that plays a big role in his ability to shut down receivers this year because he gets in the receivers grill at the line of scrimmage and disrupts their routes.

Such a great point, and wish I had added that. Very fine points in all areas. Well said.
 
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Jetstream Green

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I never said we were soft, remember. Any good team is physical (it's football) but we do not win our games through a physical style of play. Throwing deep is not bashing a team physically. If physicality was our strong suit, we would never have problems getting one yard up the gut or scoring in the redzone three yards away from pay dirt for a team that is good according to being physical. We would rather throw a quick slant or a fade route in the corner. Until now, David Johnson changes that and changes the attitude of the OL as well because they can see what Johnson can dish out and that inspires those big men. As far as defense, our secondary are excellent tacklers as a whole due to form and not physicality. This is actually a good thing as Honey Badger showed, the tackles are not highlight reel quality but they are when a guy gets stopped dead short of the marker because a 180 pound guy has superb technique. We do not have violent pass rushers because we lack speed, old man Freeney gets there through technique. Golden gets their through hustle and not because he just physically blew the guy up. What makes this defense rock are the schemes and playing responsible. DJ at safety changes that to a degree, because he will knock the crap out of you... I just hope it will not be for a flag or a missed tackle because he did not wrap up, but now there is a element of fear knowing that guy is lurking back there :)
 

daves

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Minor discrepancy but where did you get your stats? Mine were from ESPN.

NFL.com - and just double-checked at CBS.com.

Looks like just a different sort order on ESPN for points per game allowed, since Arizona is tied with New England.

If you sort ESPN's stats by points (or points/game) allowed you'll see that the Panthers are just ahead.

Still... it's been a hell of a season on O, and pretty darned good on D!

...dave
 

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NFL.com - and just double-checked at CBS.com.

Looks like just a different sort order on ESPN for points per game allowed, since Arizona is tied with New England.

If you sort ESPN's stats by points (or points/game) allowed you'll see that the Panthers are just ahead.

Still... it's been a hell of a season on O, and pretty darned good on D!

...dave


Really appreciate your diligence, well done. Props.
 

daves

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Really appreciate your diligence, well done. Props.

Thanks - don't mean to nitpick too much but ever since i was 7 years old i used to run to the drug store a mile from my house in Pennsylvania every Thursday to loiter and page through their Pro Football Weekly, read the small paragraph describing how the Cardinals had most likely lost again, and memorize all the stats pertaining to the Cardinals... so when i see something that's a little off, i notice. It's a lot easier to find the stats these days. :)

...dave
 

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Lastly, I'd like to point out how awesome Veldheer is. Remember who we had before him? And before that? Ad infinitum. This guy...he's so consistent, so good, that we never mention his name. Every game goes by, 500+ yards on offense, game after game, no mention. He's nails every single game and so consistent it's ridiculous. When he does make a mistake, it's usually a holding to protect his QB, it's rare, but I'm cool with that. This guy is like the rock of Gibraltar and I think it's understated what a huge difference he's made on our team. Without him there is no Palmer for MVP discussion at all. The DJ run everyone raves about (and it was awesome, let's not kid ourselves), Veldheer is the tackle coming all the way across the line, across the field, to level two guys hanging on DJ to break him free. He takes them both out as they're grasping and hanging on him. Veldheer is really, really good. You don't expect a LT to pull like that and move laterally so well, but he does it very well. He's a road grader and an exceptional pass blocker. Very under-rated IMO.

+1 Veldheer and Iupati over the last 2, maybe 3, games have been destroying defensive lines. I keep forgetting Iupati had a knee injury at the start of the season, and I think he is either: A. used to it, or B. feeling better.
 

SoCal Cardfan

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I never said we were soft, remember. Any good team is physical (it's football) but we do not win our games through a physical style of play. Throwing deep is not bashing a team physically. If physicality was our strong suit, we would never have problems getting one yard up the gut or scoring in the redzone three yards away from pay dirt for a team that is good according to being physical. We would rather throw a quick slant or a fade route in the corner. Until now, David Johnson changes that and changes the attitude of the OL as well because they can see what Johnson can dish out and that inspires those big men. As far as defense, our secondary are excellent tacklers as a whole due to form and not physicality. This is actually a good thing as Honey Badger showed, the tackles are not highlight reel quality but they are when a guy gets stopped dead short of the marker because a 180 pound guy has superb technique. We do not have violent pass rushers because we lack speed, old man Freeney gets there through technique. Golden gets their through hustle and not because he just physically blew the guy up. What makes this defense rock are the schemes and playing responsible. DJ at safety changes that to a degree, because he will knock the crap out of you... I just hope it will not be for a flag or a missed tackle because he did not wrap up, but now there is a element of fear knowing that guy is lurking back there :)

That's one of the more puzzling aspects of our offense....We run the ball pretty damn well as a whole, we have a coach who is just as likely (if not more so) to go 10 yards or deeper downfield throwing it on short yardage... you would think a lot more of those 3rd or 4th and shorts would be converted when we do run.

Maybe the formation is giving it away too easily? :shrug:
 

Cardiac

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That's one of the more puzzling aspects of our offense....We run the ball pretty damn well as a whole, we have a coach who is just as likely (if not more so) to go 10 yards or deeper downfield throwing it on short yardage... you would think a lot more of those 3rd or 4th and shorts would be converted when we do run.

Maybe the formation is giving it away too easily? :shrug:

Very good points and my guess is that BA and his staff figured out their "tell" during the mini bye week. BA did say they were going to self scout themselves to figure out why we weren't making those short 1st downs.
 
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Jetstream Green

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That's one of the more puzzling aspects of our offense....We run the ball pretty damn well as a whole, we have a coach who is just as likely (if not more so) to go 10 yards or deeper downfield throwing it on short yardage... you would think a lot more of those 3rd or 4th and shorts would be converted when we do run.

Maybe the formation is giving it away too easily? :shrug:

You know a team that wins on physicality does not care if you know it is coming... they run it down your gut anyways, and with DJ we can now :)
 
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Thanks - don't mean to nitpick too much but ever since i was 7 years old i used to run to the drug store a mile from my house in Pennsylvania every Thursday to loiter and page through their Pro Football Weekly, read the small paragraph describing how the Cardinals had most likely lost again, and memorize all the stats pertaining to the Cardinals... so when i see something that's a little off, i notice. It's a lot easier to find the stats these days. :)

...dave

:thumbup:
 

sunsfan88

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Guarenteed Rogers will find somebody for a touchdown that #32 would have prevented.

sent from a fone

And a Cardinals CB is gonna deflect a pass that Jordy Nelson could have caught.
 
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