The Cards' Hand has been Forced

Harry

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In my opinion and despite their comments to the contrary, the Cards are in a fairly inflexible position going into this draft. They remain very exposed at a couple of positions. First consider the CB situation. The spot across from Peterson has been a revolving door and a continuing weak spot. I just watched a Bethel in the GB game from January 2016. It was one of the worst games by a CB I have seen, let alone seen in a playoff game. He has stiff hips and no ball skills when retreating. He improved slightly at the end of last year but starting him at corner would be an indication of desperation. The Cards must select a CB early enough in this draft to get a starter or this defense will not be able to defend the pass. For too long now teams have continually thrown deep or on third down at this position and enjoyed consistent success. Fortunately for the Cards the CB pool is very deep. Still I don't think the Cards can wait later than their round 2 pick to grab one. It's true there will be some better than normal round 3 options, but that seems an unwise gamble to take.

Turning to the offense, there seems to be a shortage of play-makers for 2017. Floyd is gone and Brown is shaky, leaving Fitz & JJ as the only likely scoring threats. Jaron Brown is only a decent possession receiver. The other options are longshots to make an impact play. Again I see few options other than selecting a receiver. JJ has a history of injury and can't be overused. Fitz is older now and rehabbing can be slower. Take away the passing threat and this team won't reach the playoffs. The WR pool is shallow compared the the CB pool. To get an impact player the Cards must hope one falls to 13, which is no sure thing. Forget Ross, he's too easy to take out of a game. I saw it happen twice this year. Only Davis and Williams have a chance to be first year play-makers. There no sure things but I like the odds. What about Jones and Kupp? Both might be there in round 2 and both have talent. However, they are more likely possession receivers than scoring threats.

So why do I have Foster atop my list. Foster is an impact player at a position that rarely yields impact players. If not for that silly Combine incident the Cards wouldn't have to be considering him, he'd surely be gone before 13. What about Reddick? He's good and if the Cards trade down and the 2 receivers are gone, he's a consideration, but not at 13. If by some miracle Foster is there I'd take the WR injury risk and pick him. He can change this team for 5 years or longer. Yes there's a little concussion risk, but the risk/reward percentages make the selection reasonably safe.

Assuming all 3 of my targets are gone drop down. Get the CB, maybe Ramczyk or Reddick if they drop and grab Jones and a CB in round 2.
 

JeffGollin

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I'm wondering whether the Temple U connection re-tilts things toward Reddick - maybe not #13 but possibly later in round one or in round 2 as part of a trade-down strategy.
 

Mitch

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Great post, Harry!

I agree that CB has to be a priority. I was hoping for a veteran in free agency, but now, as you say, the Cardinals' hand has been forced.

At WR, I still believe that Christian McCaffrey could be the Cardinals' version of WR Julian Edelman and PR Tyler Lockett, while also being a nifty RB option when David Johnson plays WR. I would take McCaffrey over Davis and Williams because I believe he would do more to keep the sticks moving and to impact the game on STs.

At LB I think that Reuben Foster will not get past the Saints at #11, but I also believe that Haason Reddick is worthy of the #13 pick. He can play every LB position in the 34 and possibly even play SS (he's faster and bigger than Tony Jefferson).

You have mentioned T Ryan Ramczyk a few times and I wonder what your thoughts are there. Would you trade Veldheer or play Ramczyk at RG? What do you think of Forrest Lamp? I think he's the perfect fit at RG. Has the total package. Maybe trading down to take him could be wise if the top choices are off the board?

What do you think of S Jabrill Peppers? I like him a lot. Instant energy and superb TFL defender who is lights-out as a punt returner.

But, the DB I am totally enamored with is Budda Baker of Washington---like McCaffrey and Reddick, Baker is extremely versatile because he is equally good at playing FS (huge need imo) and playing sticky man coverage in the nickel.

I have been dreaming about trading down (if Foster, Reddick and McCaffrey are gone) in the 1st round to add another Day 2 pick and drafting:

1. Budda Baker, FS, Washington---starts at FS, key player in nickel
2. Tyus Bowser, Edge, Houston---allows team to rush Chandler Jones at times from the inside in 4 man rush
3. Rasul Douglas, CB, West Virginia---starts at RCB, one of the best press cover CBs in this draft---never backs down---needs FS help which Baker could provide
3. Dion Dawkins, G, Temple---starts at RG, could be dominant in the running game
4. George Kittle, TE, Iowa---one of the most under-rated players in draft, could excel as #2 TE and STs ace
5. Elijah Lee, LB, Kansas St.---can play inside and on the edge---super aggressive---productive on STs
5. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky---loved watching his tapes---gets off press coverage and separates quickly
6. Donnell Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.---small but plays like his pants are on fire, love his tapes, becomes KO returner
7. C.J. Beathard, QB, Iowa---I really like this guy---tough, strong armed leader, needs a year or two to develop on PS.

OR:

1. Forest Lamp, G, Western Kentucky
2. Bowser
3. Douglas
3. John Johnson, FS, Boston College

OR:

1. Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio St.
2. Bowser
3. Marcus Maye, FS, Florida
3. Dawkins
 

TheCardFan

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Nice post Harry...kind of scary that we would let our fate depend on the #2 corner spot again. Depending on a rookie increases that risk pretty dramatically. We may end up forced to make another trade for a CB before the season begins.

My top 5 players haven't changed (in no particular order):

Adams
Hooker
Lattimore
Foster
Davis

At LB I think that Reuben Foster will not get past the Saints at #11, but I also believe that Haason Reddick is worthy of the #13 pick. He can play every LB position in the 34 and possibly even play SS (he's faster and bigger than Tony Jefferson).

The Saints could very well snag Foster but their need for DE is just as big. Tak McKinley and Hasson Reddick could be better fits (versatility) for the Saints at #11 than Foster (wishful thinking on my part). They could also take Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton.
 

Mitch

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Nice post Harry...kind of scary that we would let our fate depend on the #2 corner spot again. Depending on a rookie increases that risk pretty dramatically. We may end up forced to make another trade for a CB before the season begins.

My top 5 players haven't changed (in no particular order):

Adams
Hooker
Lattimore
Foster
Davis



The Saints could very well snag Foster but their need for DE is just as big. Tak McKinley and Hasson Reddick could be better fits (versatility) for the Saints at #11 than Foster (wishful thinking on my part). They could also take Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton.

Or Christian Mccaffrey---seriously.

The Bengals at #8 look like a good match for Foster.

Of your top 5, I would consider trading up for Malik Hooker. In my opinion, he is the most uniquely talented player in the draft.
 

bg7brd

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How's this for a crazy draft scenario? Since the Titans GM comes from the Patriots tree there's a good chance he'll be moving around the draft again. I hear that the Browns really like Trubisky and he could be gone by pick 12. They could use some of their draft capital to move up in front of the Jets and get their quarterback. The Titans could move back to 12, get their 2nd rd pick back, and draft OJ Howard. Then the Titans trade up to 13 from 18 to draft their WR and we get pick 18 and their pick 69. We would remain in front of the Redskins in case we wanted to draft our QB there. The chances of this happening are slim but hey a guy can dream can't he
 

Jetstream Green

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I see the Saints feeling blessed and taking Thomas while we will have Foster in our lap... but this depends how much Arains digs a guy named Mahomes or Kizer
 
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Harry

Harry

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Great post, Harry!

I agree that CB has to be a priority. I was hoping for a veteran in free agency, but now, as you say, the Cardinals' hand has been forced.

At WR, I still believe that Christian McCaffrey could be the Cardinals' version of WR Julian Edelman and PR Tyler Lockett, while also being a nifty RB option when David Johnson plays WR. I would take McCaffrey over Davis and Williams because I believe he would do more to keep the sticks moving and to impact the game on STs.

At LB I think that Reuben Foster will not get past the Saints at #11, but I also believe that Haason Reddick is worthy of the #13 pick. He can play every LB position in the 34 and possibly even play SS (he's faster and bigger than Tony Jefferson).

You have mentioned T Ryan Ramczyk a few times and I wonder what your thoughts are there. Would you trade Veldheer or play Ramczyk at RG? What do you think of Forrest Lamp? I think he's the perfect fit at RG. Has the total package. Maybe trading down to take him could be wise if the top choices are off the board?

What do you think of S Jabrill Peppers? I like him a lot. Instant energy and superb TFL defender who is lights-out as a punt returner.

But, the DB I am totally enamored with is Budda Baker of Washington---like McCaffrey and Reddick, Baker is extremely versatile because he is equally good at playing FS (huge need imo) and playing sticky man coverage in the nickel.

I have been dreaming about trading down (if Foster, Reddick and McCaffrey are gone) in the 1st round to add another Day 2 pick and drafting:

1. Budda Baker, FS, Washington---starts at FS, key player in nickel
2. Tyus Bowser, Edge, Houston---allows team to rush Chandler Jones at times from the inside in 4 man rush
3. Rasul Douglas, CB, West Virginia---starts at RCB, one of the best press cover CBs in this draft---never backs down---needs FS help which Baker could provide
3. Dion Dawkins, G, Temple---starts at RG, could be dominant in the running game
4. George Kittle, TE, Iowa---one of the most under-rated players in draft, could excel as #2 TE and STs ace
5. Elijah Lee, LB, Kansas St.---can play inside and on the edge---super aggressive---productive on STs
5. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky---loved watching his tapes---gets off press coverage and separates quickly
6. Donnell Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.---small but plays like his pants are on fire, love his tapes, becomes KO returner
7. C.J. Beathard, QB, Iowa---I really like this guy---tough, strong armed leader, needs a year or two to develop on PS.

OR:

1. Forest Lamp, G, Western Kentucky
2. Bowser
3. Douglas
3. John Johnson, FS, Boston College

OR:

1. Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio St.
2. Bowser
3. Marcus Maye, FS, Florida
3. Dawkins[/QUOTE

The Cards figure to lose Iupati and Veldheer next season. Ramczyk offers good depth this year and could give the Cards bookend young tackles next season. He could certainly play guard if needed. He's far more versatile than Lamp. I do think Lamp will be a solid guard. I'm not opposed to McCaffrey, but I'm not sure he wants to be a WR. He doesn't figure to take much playing time away from Johnson at RB. It's a lot to ask of a star RB. It would also mean 2 RBs at WR. They both run good routes for RBs, but WR routes are more demanding. Peppers will be a fine player. I think he duplicates what the Cards have in TM. Of your other guys I like Conley best.
 
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DB's currently on the roster.

28 Bethel, Justin CB 6-0 190 26 6 Presbyterian
39 Bouka, Elie CB 6-1 205 24 2 Calgary
37 Dixon, Brian CB 6-0 195 26 4 Northwest Missouri State
34 Miller, Harlan CB 6-0 182 22 1 Southeastern Louisiana
21 Peterson, Patrick CB 6-1 203 26 7 LSU
26 Williams, Brandon CB 6-0 200 24 2 Texas A&M
29 Zamort, Ronald CB 5-10 174 25 1 Western Michigan

Bethea, Antoine S 5-11 206 32 11 Howard
27 Branch, Tyvon S 6-0 210 30 10 Connecticut
25 Bryant, Christian S 5-10 198 25 3 Ohio State
45 Hartfield, Trevon S 6-2 195 25 1 Southwestern Oklahoma State
32 Mathieu, Tyrann S 5-9 186 24 5 LSU
 

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1. Based on last year's Draft, with the expected loss of CC, we drafted a DE/DT. This year we have an aging ILB, along with a converted safety, who is nearing the end of his rookie contract. So I expect an ILB at #13.
2. The CB pool is deeper, so I think the team will wait until #45 to pick a CB.
3. Fitz is nearing the end of his HOF career, so I can see us going WR at #77. Granted, either Davis or Williams should be there at #13, but the need is greater at ILB, imo.
 

JeffGollin

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The Cards have a Board we have no clue about based on player ratings which are based on weight-factors we have no clue about.

Instead of trying to tying ourselves into knots trying to unravel a hodgepodge of talent-pools, what we need to do next year and whose contract will be up - how about simplifying things by drafting the highest rated prospect on our Board who falls to us. There's a reason why the Cards do this, and we should trust the process.
 

football karma

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Harry: why do you think the Cards let Veldheer go next season?

yes, he will likely play right tackle, but his cap figure is actually pretty reasonable when compared to the current market. Iupati i can see given the uneven peformance......
 

Garthshort

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Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, tying ourselves into knots is what it's all about. That is why this time of year is so much fun. Gives all us couch potatoes a chance to play GM. :)
 

RugbyMuffin

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Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, tying ourselves into knots is what it's all about. That is why this time of year is so much fun. Gives all us couch potatoes a chance to play GM. :)

+1

Agreed. Draft Simulators are stressful......I mean, do you risk waiting until the 3rd or 4th round for a cornerback, or do you not ? LOL !
 

JeffGollin

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Ah, yes. But the title of thread suggests that various factors on or off the football field will force the Cardinals to draft in a specific manner.

I'm not sure I buy that.

BA&SK are just as likely to enter HQ on Draft Day with the mindset that they can do whatever they want - including bypassing a WR or CB and drafting a safety if he happens to be top guy on their board.

Didn't mean to suggest that all that Machiavellian stuff isn't fun for fans; I just don't think BA&SK will let themselves get sucked into that vortex.
 

MadCardDisease

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I pretty much agree with Harry. It's why I think all of this QB talk in the 1st round is a bluff to scare other QB needy teams into grabbing a QB before the Cardinals pick. The more QBs that go before the Cardinals pick the better the chance one of the other positions may fall to the Cardinals. I'm still crossing my fingers for Corey Davis but I would cry if Williams or Foster ends up being the pick. Otherwise trade back and load up on day two draft picks.
 

BigRedRage

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The Cards figure to lose Iupati and Veldheer next season. Ramczyk offers good depth this year and could give the Cards bookend young tackles next season. He could certainly play guard if needed. He's far more versatile than Lamp. I do think Lamp will be a solid guard. I'm not opposed to McCaffrey, but I'm not sure he wants to be a WR. He doesn't figure to take much playing time away from Johnson at RB. It's a lot to ask of a star RB. It would also mean 2 RBs at WR. They both run good routes for RBs, but WR routes are more demanding. Peppers will be a fine player. I think he duplicates what the Cards have in TM. Of your other guys I like Conley best.

I hope all the Veldheer being done here talk is wrong, he is a good player and still relatively young
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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After doing at least 100 mocks for Cards alone, I feel the draft takes on 2 completely different scenarios for us. The draft falls beautifully for us if we don't have to address the QB position early in this draft, and best if not at all. In that scenario, we come out so much stronger in all our positions of need. It makes for a wonderful draft situation.

But when we use one of those high picks on a QB, it seems the quality of our choices at all the other positions drops considerably to the point of a very typical so-so draft, barely worth being excited about. Do it yourself and compare the two, one with us using a top 2 pick on a QB and one without taking a QB. The quality of our whole team changes greatly between the two.

I am really hoping that our coach and gm have a secret plan for our next qb that doesn't involve drafting one in the top 3 or 4 rounds this year.
 

Stout

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After doing at least 100 mocks for Cards alone, I feel the draft takes on 2 completely different scenarios for us. The draft falls beautifully for us if we don't have to address the QB position early in this draft, and best if not at all. In that scenario, we come out so much stronger in all our positions of need. It makes for a wonderful draft situation.

But when we use one of those high picks on a QB, it seems the quality of our choices at all the other positions drops considerably to the point of a very typical so-so draft, barely worth being excited about. Do it yourself and compare the two, one with us using a top 2 pick on a QB and one without taking a QB. The quality of our whole team changes greatly between the two.

I am really hoping that our coach and gm have a secret plan for our next qb that doesn't involve drafting one in the top 3 or 4 rounds this year.

I get what you're saying, and I can commiserate, but...if that's the case, you'd better be praying for some kind of miracle/blockbuster trade next offseason. By then, drafting a QBOF will set us back.
 

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I agree. We finally get a top tier left tackle & people want to move him to RT or release him. Doesn't make sense.

If DJ is the long term solution at LT and can play at a high level, I am fine with the position change but I would also like to keep him there instead of letting him walk.
 
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If DJ is the long term solution at LT and can play at a high level, I am fine with the position change but I would also like to keep him there instead of letting him walk.

DJ should be able to play RT until Veldheer moves on.
 

BigRedRage

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DJ should be able to play RT until Veldheer moves on.

Unless he is a lateral move with a higher ceiling. :shrug:

If DJ can be a top ten LT, put him there now IMO. He is the future. However Veldheer can play 5+ more years. I would like to have them both that long if he will be the future.
 
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