The Cost of Free Agents

[AZCB34]

Check this out...interesting stuff. Of course it is speculation but...

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004FA/FAmv.htm

 

[spanky1]

Thank you for the link.....this is very interesting. I've been an advocate of Robaire Smith as a FA DT. I see he is one whose stock is soaring

Ahmad Plummer is affordable as a FA CB....as is Northcutt (WR) and Darren Howard (DE)

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by spanky1
Thank you for the link.....this is very interesting. I've been an advocate of Robaire Smith as a FA DT. I see he is one whose stock is soaring

Ahmad Plummer is affordable as a FA CB....as is Northcutt (WR) and Darren Howard (DE)

Q: is Darren Howard UFA or RFA?

I've tried to locate this info, but found nothing. However, given how long he's been in the league, I thought he could be restricted.

 

[Stout]

Linkie no workie.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Q: is Darren Howard UFA or RFA?

I've tried to locate this info, but found nothing. However, given how long he's been in the league, I thought he could be restricted.

UFA I believe.....but you are right, I haven't been able to get a bead on his official status......krang should know.....he'd love to have him as a Cardinal and promotes him highly as a FA

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by Stout
Linkie no workie.

Stout,

Works for me

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by spanky1
UFA I believe.....but you are right, I haven't been able to get a bead on his official status......krang should know.....he'd love to have him as a Cardinal and promotes him highly as a FA

He is a UFA. He just completed his 4th season:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187563

I am with Krang. From the looks of it, Howard would be an excellent pickup and would solve another issue. He seems affordable for what he brings.

 

[BACH]

Hmm, Gary Walker....

 

[spanky1]

Here is some data. The author presents this as "open market" values that a FA could likely get from a new team.

Example:

1)Peyton Manning: Total Annual Average: $11MM; Est. Signing Bonus: $25MM
2)Jevon Kearse: $7.5MM; $16MM
3)Champ Bailey: $$8MM; $15MM
4)Chris McAlister: $6MM; $10MM
5)Julian Peterson: $5.5MM; $8.5MM
6)Antione Winfield:$5.5MM;$8.5MM
7)Warren Sapp: $5MM; $7.5MM
8)Grant Wistrom: $5.2MM; $7.0MM
9)Darren Howard: $4.5MM; $5.0MM
10)F. Bryant: $4.2MM; $5.0MM
11)Bobby Taylor: $3.7MM; $5.0MM
12)Shawn Springs: $3.7MM; $4.5MM
13)Troy Vincent: $3.5MM;$4.0MM
14) Ahmed Plummer: $4.2MM; $5.5MM
15)Robaire Smith: $3.2MM; $4.0MM
16)Duce Staley: $3.0MM; $3.0MM
17)Dennis Northcutt: $2.5MM; $2.5MM

And one who will be high on DG's radar screen at QB:

A.J. Feeley: $2.0MM; $1.5MM

Let's do: Darren Howard (or Robaire Smith), Ahmed Plummer (or Troy Vincent) and A.J Feeley

 

[MadCardDisease]

That is crazy. Looking at the top 30 almost every player averages over 3 million a year. 13 players are in the over 5 million a year range.

My guess is that half of the teams are already over the cap as we speak. Where the hell is all of this cap space going to come from?

If I'm a Big name free agent then I want to land a job right away, before all of the remaining cap space drys up.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
That is crazy. Looking at the top 30 almost every player averages over 3 million a year. 13 players are in the over 5 million a year range.

My guess is that half of the teams are already over the cap as we speak. Where the hell is all of this cap space going to come from?

If I'm a Big name free agent then I want to land a job right away, before all of the remaining cap space drys up.

This is why I feel that this is our year........we have two-three serious holes (DE or DT or CB and now QB) and there are solutions at cap friendly prices. And we have the room.

A trade down from our #3 to no further than #10 and get another 2nd rounder and we are in draft heaven

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

We could totally get Brian Young, Plummer or Vincent, and Howard and be a much better team. It doesn't seem so unrealistic.

 

[Stout]

Huh, my computer must have been temporarily possessed. Works just fine now.

 

[vikesfan]

What happens is teams Cap Out and every year teams sign players to FA deals that are cheap. This is just some writer guessing. Once team's cap money is gone players can be had for much more reasonable amounts.

 

[JeffGollin]

What happens is teams Cap Out and every year teams sign players to FA deals that are cheap.
That's 2 legs of the three-legged chair.

What also happens is that teams following that philosophy and wait too long can come up empty handed.

(Examples - Our apparent reluctance to be more aggressive re Roosevelt Colvin and Vonnie Holliday).

On one hand, you can say it saved us from overspending on certain players, but on the other, we ended the preseason with a lot of unspent cap money because there was no one left out there worth spending it on.

The Cards may want to modify their policy this year so that we're willing to accept overpaying a couple free agents Denny feels we absolutely gotta have; and then using the rest of our cap dollars to fill in other holes with solid though maybe somewhat less spectacular players.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
What happens is teams Cap Out and every year teams sign players to FA deals that are cheap.
That's 2 legs of the three-legged chair.

What also happens is that teams following that philosophy and wait too long can come up empty handed.

(Examples - Our apparent reluctance to be more aggressive re Roosevelt Colvin and Vonnie Holliday).

On one hand, you can say it saved us from overspending on certain players, but on the other, we ended the preseason with a lot of unspent cap money because there was no one left out there worth spending it on.

The Cards may want to modify their policy this year so that we're willing to accept overpaying a couple free agents Denny feels we absolutely gotta have; and then using the rest of our cap dollars to fill in other holes with solid though maybe somewhat less spectacular players.

Examples - Our apparent reluctance to be more aggressive re Roosevelt Colvin and Vonnie Holliday).

It was my understanding that our monetary offers to both were greater than that finally accepted. In other words; the Cards were prepared to "overpay".

A policy of "overpaying" speaks to the weakness, not strength of your business plan... and IMO - a recipe for disaster.

Make fair competitive offers, stress the tangible and intangible benefits of being with the CARDS at this point, and live with the results. This strikes me as the only truly productive way to proceed.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Examples - Our apparent reluctance to be more aggressive re Roosevelt Colvin and Vonnie Holliday).

It was my understanding that our monetary offers to both were greater than that finally accepted. In other words; the Cards were prepared to "overpay".

A policy of "overpaying" speaks to the weakness, not strength of your business plan... and IMO - a recipe for disaster.

Make fair competitive offers, stress the tangible and intangible benefits of being with the CARDS at this point, and live with the results. This strikes me as the only truly productive way to proceed.

Northern Card, your "business acumen" is sound. A policy of overpaying creates a nasty precedent that can backfire. There are occasions where paying a "premium" makes sense but paying more than what something is worth is being "fiscally irresponsible".

Your thoughts on a current thread on the topic of "farm systems" would be valuable insight....please visit my post

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Examples - Our apparent reluctance to be more aggressive re Roosevelt Colvin and Vonnie Holliday).

It was my understanding that our monetary offers to both were greater than that finally accepted. In other words; the Cards were prepared to "overpay".

That's what I had thought as well, but the scuttlebut around here has been contrary. At this point, I'm not sure which side is right.

 

[Cardiac]

Looking at these prices makes me cringe. We have about 10 mil in cap space, which puts us in better shape then most teams. At these prices we can afford one to two quality FA's. A couple of other teams can do the same. But no way will all of those players receive the contracts that are listed, there's just not enough cap space in the league.

On a side note, Vincent isn't what he use to be and so should be avoided. He would be a nice pick up for a team that is just a CB away from shoring up their D but not for the Cards.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by Cardiac
Looking at these prices makes me cringe. We have about 10 mil in cap space, which puts us in better shape then most teams. At these prices we can afford one to two quality FA's. A couple of other teams can do the same. But no way will all of those players receive the contracts that are listed, there's just not enough cap space in the league.

On a side note, Vincent isn't what he use to be and so should be avoided. He would be a nice pick up for a team that is just a CB away from shoring up their D but not for the Cards.

Vincent will sign with Carolina. Plummer wants to go home to Cinncinati. Bailey and McAlister will eventually come to terms with their current teams.Woodson wants too much money.Bobby Taylor is too old.Springs is overrated.

Winfield is a perfect match for us....if not him then Fernando Bryant.

Add in Robaire Smith at DT and we've blown our wad, but have two top drawer players and have improved in two very key areas of weakness.

Then it is on to the draft

 

[cardsfan473]

According to MJ on KDUS, Darren Howard will be franchised.

If he isn't, I would go after him with a vengence.

He would instantly upgrade the pass rush, and he is a young player.

Grant Wistrom is another guy I look at. He has a tremendous work ethic and is a good DE. They say KVB is a poor-man's GW. Why not have the real thing....

Bring him in, it couldn't hurt!

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by cardsfan473
According to MJ on KDUS, Darren Howard will be franchised.

If he isn't, I would go after him with a vengence.

He would instantly upgrade the pass rush, and he is a young player.

Grant Wistrom is another guy I look at. He has a tremendous work ethic and is a good DE. They say KVB is a poor-man's GW. Why not have the real thing....

Bring him in, it couldn't hurt!

Okay ...... so who are going to be our CB's............

I don't care if you have 4 Hall of Famers on the D-line they can't get to the QB every play. Just look at the Panthers, the best D-line in FB and still give up a ton of points in the SB.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by cardsfan473
According to MJ on KDUS, Darren Howard will be franchised.

If he isn't, I would go after him with a vengence.

He would instantly upgrade the pass rush, and he is a young player.

Grant Wistrom is another guy I look at. He has a tremendous work ethic and is a good DE. They say KVB is a poor-man's GW. Why not have the real thing....

Bring him in, it couldn't hurt!

Wistrom will sign with Kansas City......and he is having MCL troubles as we speak.

 

[vikesfan]

Folks this is kind of obvious:
Well the Cards had to overpay cause people don't want to come to a loser. I mean players are competitive guys and want to win a SB. If you have two even offers who goes to the Cards? With DG here hopefully that will now change - if you have a winning team - you won't have to overpay. When DG was the coach in Minne players played for less to stay in Minn. Making the playoffs every year is fun and important to players as is the shot at a SB. If an organization is a the butt of national jokes players are even less likely to come. Your ONLY chance to get quality FAs has been to overpay. Winning will cure that.

As I posted elsewhere teams who are supposedly cap strapped and have way less cap money then you do sign many quality FAs every year and never enter cap hell. Deals can be structured to beat the FA/Cap system if you know what you are doing. NE adds quality FAs every year as do teams like NO TB STL etc.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by vikesfan
NE adds quality FAs every year as do teams like NO TB STL etc.

You keep using NE as the argument to make your point, I actually believe they do the opposite of what you are saying.

Name a high priced FA they have signed since Billichek has been in charge.

Colvin may fit your example of quality FA's but he came at a cap friendly price. Harrison was acquired at a bargain price. So are many of their FA signings. NE targets players who fit their system and will improve the teams play, they don't go after big name high dollar guys.

Who has TB signed in FA?? You may be right but I can't think of anyone except Rice and his initial deal was at a bargain price.

NO's keeps bringing in over rated guys that don't pan out. Their secondary has been a revolving door the past couple of years with no real improvement against the pass. They tried a DT or 2 and again that didn't work.


How did the Cowboys do after getting out of cap hell.

How about the 49ers, plus they are still trying to get out from under cap hell.

Let's see how the Raiders do going forward, this year speaks to how their cap forced them to keep restructuring contracts to the point they aren't just old but ancient.

Titans could start to slip as well.

Maybe I'm just missing your point but I have to disagree with the premise of your argument.