The end of game fiasco at Duke last night

[Russ Smith]

For those that didn't see. Down 5 Clemson scores a 2, and Duke inbounds with 5 seconds on the clock. McRoberts has a brain fart and throws the ball right to Hamilton the Clemson guard who catches, sets his feet, and swishes a 3 to tie the game. One problem, Duke's clock guy forgot to start the clock. Obviously in that situation time elapses, so the refs reviewed it and ultimately set the clock at 4.4. Duke inbounded, Scheyer made a great pass to McLure, who made a 3 foot shot at the buzzer to win the game.

ESPN ran their own clock and determined that it should have been 2.4 seconds, not 4.4 on the final clock.

Apparently the ACC officials office is admitting they made an error, but only in the clock not being started correctly when McRoberts threw the bad pass to set up the tying 3. They are not publicly admitting to ANY mistake in the subsequent setting of the clock to 4.4 seconds. The official Duke explanation is the NBA has ruled you need .6 to get a shot off so 4.4 was correct. Of course that's the catch and instant release shot like the one Anderson did against UCLA last night. In this one the Clemson player actually set his feet before shooting.

Jay Bilas admits on ESPN that they blew the clock decision but nobody regrets that more than the refs, and note both teams played under the same conditions and Duke won on a legal shot. Plenty of teams have won a game in 2.4 seconds, even Duke with the Laettner shot years ago.
Yep very impartial of you there Jay.

 

[Dback Jon]

Reason # 3,456 why Duke is bad for college basketball.

 

[boisesuns]

Saw that. Terrible. Don't they review these things?

 

[Russ Smith]

Saw that. Terrible. Don't they review these things?

They reviewed it at the game, they actually used replay to set the clock at 4.4 which is astounding.

A friend who's a big ACC fan said the refs will be suspended, but as with most conferences they don't announce it, they simply don't work a game, nobody ever knows for sure why, and that's it. He's a UNC fan and he says
it's something they're all aware of when you play at Duke, never put yourself in a position to lose on a bad call, or you WILL get the bad call.

Duke's top 3 scorers last night combined for over 100 minutes played, and were called for ZERO fouls, they had 10 fouls as a team for the game, Clemson's top 2 scorers had 4 each.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

so Bilas isn't impartial, but a UNC fan is when discussing duke basketball? - seems to be a common thread

what Bilas said is correct and this happens all the time in college basketball - also ACC refs are in general very poor

was definitely a bad decision, even crazier when you consider they did review it

also this really doesn't fit the traditional home cooking type scenario with in house score keepers - usually this scenario happens when they don't start the clock when the home team is going to score to tie/win

duke had the lead, why wouldn't the score keeper try to get a jump on the button to run off the last 5 seconds?

no consipiracy - just a screw up and typical poor acc officiating

 

[Russ Smith]

so Bilas isn't impartial, but a UNC fan is when discussing duke basketball? - seems to be a common thread

what Bilas said is correct and this happens all the time in college basketball - also ACC refs are in general very poor

was definitely a bad decision, even crazier when you consider they did review it

also this really doesn't fit the traditional home cooking type scenario with in house score keepers - usually this scenario happens when they don't start the clock when the home team is going to score to tie/win

duke had the lead, why wouldn't the score keeper try to get a jump on the button to run off the last 5 seconds?

no consipiracy - just a screw up and typical poor acc officiating

I'm not implying Duke cheated, as you said he should have started the clock early not late. The implication is that Duke repeatedly gets breaks from officials and has for years, probably connected to Coach K's reputation more than anything.

I mentioned the friend because he said honestly he wouldn't have given the game a 2nd thought if it hadn't been all over ESPN this morning, he says in the ACC we're so used to that accusation with Duke that we just expect it.
You never want to be in a situation where a bad call can lose the game for you because in their gym odds are you'll get that call. I see games like that al the time, like the Oregon and Stanford game last weekend where Stanford pounded it inside all day and yet Oregon shot more than 3 times as many FT's because it was a home game and refs allowed no contact on dribblers but all kinds of contact in the post. USC fans are complaining today they didn't get a call last night at Stanford. But with Duke year after year they make more FT's than their opponent attempts, but after the publicity last year that suddenly went away.

Bilas' comment is nonsense. What does both teams played under the same set of rules mean, you don't think Clemson has a much better chance of defending if they don't have to do it for 2 extra seconds? And the guys who were guarding Scheyer before he made the pass both said the same thing, I was afraid to get too tight or they'd call a foul.

Last year pretty much confirmed for me that the Duke stuff wasn't my imagination. After a couple of ACC coaches mad a big stink about FT disparity, and ESPN did a story on it themselves(no doubt against Vitale's wishes) the next block of like 8 games there was a noted "evening up" of FT's in Dukes games. They got the breaks against Boston College and Florida State, everyone heard all about it, and then something suddenly changed after all the hoopla over it. Duke lost 2 games during that group of games after having only 1 loss all year. Then they lost to LSU in a game where Duke fans were complaining they weren't getting any calls because LSU blanketed Redick all night.

I watched Cold Pizza before work today and they were talking about this exact thing and why don't college basketball officials get publicly suspended when they screw up. That yes the clock guy made a mistake but the real problem here was they used replay and still got the clock so totally wrong.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

definitely agree that the refs screwed up more than the clock guy - and refs should be reprimanded for thier actions

it's not just duke though - the whole ACC is terrible & inconsistent - duke just gets that reputation (some of it admittedly deserved, other bits earned) - when K came to duke he built teams that had excellent FT shooters and focused on ways to get them to the line - attimes it's a bit much, but it is 20 years in the making

 

[Russ Smith]

definitely agree that the refs screwed up more than the clock guy - and refs should be reprimanded for thier actions

it's not just duke though - the whole ACC is terrible & inconsistent - duke just gets that reputation (some of it admittedly deserved, other bits earned) - when K came to duke he built teams that had excellent FT shooters and focused on ways to get them to the line - attimes it's a bit much, but it is 20 years in the making

Well the one that always baffled me was how a guy like Redick that shot that many 3's could get to the line that much? He was a great shooter but very few guys that take that many 3's do that.

Mike Roll is UCLA's dedicated 3 guy, not nearly as good as Redick and plays about 15-20 MPG, he's shot 4 freethrows the entire YEAR.

Everyone complains about the refs, Pac 10 fans all the time because the home and road bias is so obvious in the Pac 10.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

yeah - it's pretty much the dirty secret in college basketball

guys like reddick often got hit on the perimeter - sometimes with the ball, sometimes without (with the 1&1 and bonus rules) - he also took a lot of shots of screens, sometimes people would hold as he came around or jump out and make contact after he was clear - he did a fair amount of spot up shooting, but never really drew fouls doing that

 

[Lefty]

Are those the same officials that worked the Oregon/Oklahoma football game?

 

[Skkorpion]

Duke sucks. They foul every ball handler every posession but K intimidates the refs. Remember, he learned under Bobby Knight.

 

[Southpaw]

Come on guys.... It is DUKE. They are perfect. They are annointed. They don't cheat ( Felton Spencer, Carlos Boozer, Cory Maggette ) . They are coached by King K.

BTW, The ACC just admitted there was an error and it was handled internally after the game. Whatever that means.

 

[boisesuns]

Come on guys.... It is DUKE. They are perfect. They are annointed. They don't cheat ( Felton Spencer, Carlos Boozer, Cory Maggette ) . They are coached by King K.

BTW, The ACC just admitted there was an error and it was handled internally after the game. Whatever that means.

I wonder what the point of that is.

Translation:

"We were wrong, but Duke is so good. They don't lose at home, you should know that"

 

[Gee!]

I hate Duke.. When UofA played them in the championship game around 2001 or so, forgot exactly when, Duke got away with so many calls and the Wildcats were called for everything.. Wildcats leading, a whistle would blow.. Wildcats about to start winning, a whistle would blow.. Duke sucks..

 

[Russ Smith]

Come on guys.... It is DUKE. They are perfect. They are annointed. They don't cheat ( Felton Spencer, Carlos Boozer, Cory Maggette ) . They are coached by King K.

BTW, The ACC just admitted there was an error and it was handled internally after the game. Whatever that means.

They only admitted the clock should have started, they didn't admit resetting it to 4.4 was a mistake, at least not publicly.

I saw something nearly that weird in the UCLA loss to Stanford last night. Right before halftime Kenny Brown(a walkon) hits a long 3 for Stanford, the ball goes through the net with 4 seconds left. Carlton Wetherby a Stanford guard catches the ball, and stands there holding it, away from 2 UCLA guys trying to get it to inbound, and he holds the ball until .4 when he throws it to a ref and the half ends. The look on Howland's face was priceless he was screaming "delay of game!" at the ref but they never did a thing. Note, the UCLA players weren't frantically trying to pull the ball away or something they were just reachign out expecting him to hand them the ball, and he just kept holding it. It was quite funny but if he does the same thing at the end of a half of a Duke game it's probably a technical foul.

 

[Renz]

I saw this in Ben Maller's rumor section:

How much longer does Tommy Amaker have at Michigan? He is now 0-10 against Indiana and has yet to make the NCAA Tournament since taking the job in 2001. Other than Mike Brey, none of the Duke assistants turned head coaches has done much. Apparently, they can't take the officials or timekeepers with them.

 

[arthurracoon]

Down with Duke