The Latest On Tanking

[Vacard]

How Cardinals would it be for us to win 10 games with smoke and mirrors and the Texans make the playoffs and both our picks are late 1st rounders.

Texans could absolutely be over .500 this year and the Cards will sneak out 3-5 wins to miss the top 5 pick and miss out on Maye, Caleb, and Harrison Jr. It’s the Cardinal way.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You can make a reasonable argument that having a healthy, motivated Kyler Murray on your roster keeps you out of purgatory.

Regardless, my point was to dispute DCR's assertion that nothing could have been done to prevent a meaningless six-win season, and I think that's patently false.

You said 6 win season, not me.

You are asserting that our main objective should have been to try and be competitive in 2023 right? REALLY hard to do that, when you starting QB is out for who knows how long and most of your roster is devoid of talent. How much do you think that re-signing Byron/Zach and signing another couple FAs would have done?

You know what's more depressing than the Cards 'tanking' and trying to acquire talent the wrong way? Thinking that you can be competitive when you can't, and being stuck at 5-12 or 6-11 and in cap hell like we have been for most of our time with Keim.

 

[WakeForestCard]

I think it's been obvious that we are tanking ever since we let Murphy and Allen go.

It's clear as day and I don't know how anyone could argue against it.

Whether or not it is the right move is certainly up for debate, however.

 

[kerouac9]

You said 6 win season, not me.

You are asserting that our main objective should have been to try and be competitive in 2023 right? REALLY hard to do that, when you starting QB is out for who knows how long and most of your roster is devoid of talent. How much do you think that re-signing Byron/Zach and signing another couple FAs would have done?

You know what's more depressing than the Cards 'tanking' and trying to acquire talent the wrong way? Thinking that you can be competitive when you can't, and being stuck at 5-12 or 6-11 and in cap hell like we have been for most of our time with Keim.

A lot of this hinges on what "competitive" means in our individual context. I'd prefer to be on the "In The Hunt" slide at Christmastime. That's the level of competitive we could easily have been in 2023 with a different mindset.

I don't know if that should have been the "main objective," but if you're going to get 10 games of Kyler Murray, having a top 3 pick and two veterans starts to get you into that space, especially if you add a more relevant second QB.

We had like the third-most cap space in the league coming into 2023 free agency. The "cap hell" argument was never true.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

A lot of this hinges on what "competitive" means in our individual context. I'd prefer to be on the "In The Hunt" slide at Christmastime. That's the level of competitive we could easily have been in 2023 with a different mindset.

I don't know if that should have been the "main objective," but if you're going to get 10 games of Kyler Murray, having a top 3 pick and two veterans starts to get you into that space, especially if you add a more relevant second QB.

We had like the third-most cap space in the league coming into 2023 free agency. The "cap hell" argument was never true.

Except that we would have needed to sign about 7-10+ players in order to be competitive. I'd say we have about the same definition of 'competitive.' In contention with 2 games to go.

Signing that many players would have been hard to do that this year having 25M in cap space or whatever the number was at the beginning of the offseason.

 

[kerouac9]

Except that we would have needed to sign about 7-10+ players in order to be competitive. I'd say we have about the same definition of 'competitive.' In contention with 2 games to go.

Signing that many players would have been hard to do that this year having 25M in cap space or whatever the number was at the beginning of the offseason.

We'll never know because we didn't try, I guess.

 

[phillycard]

Then why we didn’t trade Buddha?

Don't wanna appear TOO obvious! LMAO!

 

[Chopper0080]

You said 6 win season, not me.

You are asserting that our main objective should have been to try and be competitive in 2023 right? REALLY hard to do that, when you starting QB is out for who knows how long and most of your roster is devoid of talent. How much do you think that re-signing Byron/Zach and signing another couple FAs would have done?

You know what's more depressing than the Cards 'tanking' and trying to acquire talent the wrong way? Thinking that you can be competitive when you can't, and being stuck at 5-12 or 6-11 and in cap hell like we have been for most of our time with Keim.

Generally speaking...I feel like you have more of a chance succeeding if you try than if you don't.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except that we would have needed to sign about 7-10+ players in order to be competitive. I'd say we have about the same definition of 'competitive.' In contention with 2 games to go.

Signing that many players would have been hard to do that this year having 25M in cap space or whatever the number was at the beginning of the offseason.

I guess it depends on the gap between Monti and Keim, Kliff and Gannon. If you feel we upgraded in terms of our GM, HC and schemes, it isn't a stretch to think they could do more with less.

Maybe holding onto Hopkins, adding a better LG, and another RB gets us a better offense for the 10 - 11 games Kyler plays.

Maybe retaining Murphy and Allen, as well as adding an impact DT and a veteran edge player gets you a middle of the pack defense instead of a bad Vance defense.

Sometimes I feel these threads make assumptions based upon the previous regime's results vs what a better regime should be able to do.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I guess it depends on the gap between Monti and Keim, Kliff and Gannon. If you feel we upgraded in terms of our GM, HC and schemes, it isn't a stretch to think they could do more with less.

Maybe holding onto Hopkins, adding a better LG, and another RB gets us a better offense for the 10 - 11 games Kyler plays.

Maybe retaining Murphy and Allen, as well as adding an impact DT and a veteran edge player gets you a middle of the pack defense instead of a bad Vance defense.

Sometimes I feel these threads make assumptions based upon the previous regime's results vs what a better regime should be able to do.

I don't think there is a doubt in that at all. How much though is the question that no one is able to answer.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Just chiming in here to throw in my 2 cents.

Gannon isn't going to participate in any tanking. The dude is an animal. He intends to build a culture of winning, not half-assery. Sure, some of Monti's moves have been head scratchers. But letting McCoy go isn't a tanking step, despite the national media frenzy.

That is all. Carry on and add another 12 pages to this thread. .

 

[phillycard]

Me watching Arizona Cardinals football this year.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GatorAZ]

Just chiming in here to throw in my 2 cents.

Gannon isn't going to participate in any tanking. The dude is an animal. He intends to build a culture of winning, not half-assery. Sure, some of Monti's moves have been head scratchers. But letting McCoy go isn't a tanking step, despite the national media frenzy.

That is all. Carry on and add another 12 pages to this thread. .

Nobody said players and coaches tank.

 

[bankybruce]

All of this may be true, but non of it is in service to winning in 2023. Also consider when the Cardinals were trying to win in 2022, Hopkins was not a culture problem.

Nope, this year is 100% a tank job. For the record, as a selfish fan, I wanted to keep him ans be competitive this year. But I get what the at doing.

The good is, if in 3 years we still stuck, we can't blame MB or SK. Monti is calling the shots.

 

[bankybruce]

Again, this thread was created asking why people feel or say the Cardinals are tanking. Not whether the moves they made are good for the future of the franchise or not.

I'm not arguing either way, just showing my take on the future.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A lot of this hinges on what "competitive" means in our individual context. I'd prefer to be on the "In The Hunt" slide at Christmastime. That's the level of competitive we could easily have been in 2023 with a different mindset.

I don't know if that should have been the "main objective," but if you're going to get 10 games of Kyler Murray, having a top 3 pick and two veterans starts to get you into that space, especially if you add a more relevant second QB.

We had like the third-most cap space in the league coming into 2023 free agency. The "cap hell" argument was never true.

In a QB driven league without a top defense, I honestly think it's crazy to think the Cardinals could have been in the hunt, even with a really good free agency haul.

 

[Chopper0080]

In a QB driven league without a top defense, I honestly think it's crazy to think the Cardinals could have been in the hunt, even with a really good free agency haul.

NFC is pretty bad.

 

[kerouac9]

In a QB driven league without a top defense, I honestly think it's crazy to think the Cardinals could have been in the hunt, even with a really good free agency haul.

Washington was in the hunt that long last year. Carolina was in the hunt that long last year. Tennessee was in the hunt that long last year. Funny things happen when you try.

Pittsburgh had a winning record last year.

 

[HairZach]

Washington was in the hunt that long last year. Carolina was in the hunt that long last year. Tennessee was in the hunt that long last year. Funny things happen when you try.

Pittsburgh had a winning record last year.

Those teams all have awesome defenses

 

[Krangodnzr]

Washington was in the hunt that long last year.

Way better defense. Redskins are literally competent QB play away from competing.

Carolina was in the hunt that long last year.

See above, and the NFC South was really bad.

Tennessee was in the hunt that long last year.

Easy to be competitive in the SFC South

Funny things happen when you try.

Pittsburgh had a winning record last year.

All teams with way better defenses. You are literally making my point. I didn't see a TJ Watt on the free agency market.

 

[Krangodnzr]

NFC is pretty bad.

I don't really see a path to being competitive.

What I thought might happen this off-season is that Monti would go out and sign a Yannick Ngakoue, a Rock Ya-Sin, and other players of that caliber that would propel this team to about 7 wins, but long term hurt the team

 

[kerouac9]

Way better defense. Redskins are literally competent QB play away from competing.

See above, and the NFC South was really bad.

Easy to be competitive in the SFC South

All teams with way better defenses. You are literally making my point. I didn't see a TJ Watt on the free agency market.

Yes. I agree we could have tried to improve our defense. Signing a quality IDL and CB would have helped. Maybe drafting a pass rusher who wasn’t already injured.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes. I agree we could have tried to improve our defense. Signing a quality IDL and CB would have helped. Maybe drafting a pass rusher who wasn’t already injured.

I think best case scenario, the team becomes a scrappy 18th ranked defense, not a defense that wins you games.

The only way I see that Monti could have made this team competitive would have been to push out contracts (eating future cap), signing a bunch of decent to good free agents, and for Murray to be ready for week one.

 

[kerouac9]

I think best case scenario, the team becomes a scrappy 18th ranked defense, not a defense that wins you games.

The only way I see that Monti could have made this team competitive would have been to push out contracts (eating future cap), signing a bunch of decent to good free agents, and for Murray to be ready for week one.

Murray for 10 games makes this team competitive into December with an adequate defense probably.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Murray for 10 games makes this team competitive into December with an adequate defense probably.

Probably. Maybe. Sort of.

I don't buy it.

While I think the negative narrative of Murray has grown to levels that are completely untrue, Murray really hasn't shown an ability to elevate his teammates.

That's why even with a healthy Murray, this team is probably at best 6 wins.

Without him for six games? Probably 3 or 4 wins.