The notice of allegations with Kansas

[Russ Smith]

The interesting thing in there is the NCAA is essentially saying Adidas is a booster for Kansas and that makes their actions worse and it's why Kansas is being charged with so many Level 1 violations, because they involved a booster. It's why both Self and Kansas came out publicly last night denying Adidas is a booster, they recognize a core part of the NCAA allegations are made much worse by that distinction.

I've seen 5, 4 and 3 level 1 violations I'm not sure which is true. THere's rumored to be 2 show cause recommendations against Townsend.

One of the really difficult allegations is that allegedly Townsend asked Gassnola to find out if Adidas had any "extra gear" they could send to the angola national team, they did, and then Silvio Desousa, who is from Angola, changed his mind and asked out of a Maryland commitment to go to Kansas. if that's true and you consider Adidas a booster, Kansas is in big trouble.

I guess this probably is going to be part of the tactic the NCAA uses in the other cases too, the shoe companies are boosters.

 

[jf-08]

@DWKB any insight on this?

 

[DWKB]

@DWKB any insight on this?

Russ is right in that this is the NCAA trying to get to the shoe companies through the University.

Kansas is likely to fight this as hard as possible and we will see what happens.

I think the NOA is a bit of a joke, but I’m obviously biased, but it mentions things from 60+ years ago.

I also think other schools better hope we win and set a precedent.

The era of amateur athletics in football and basketball is ending and this latest effort by the NCAA is an attempt to hold on to the status quo.

They turned a blind eye to the shoe companies and AAU for too long and now they’re embarrassed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ is right in that this is the NCAA trying to get to the shoe companies through the University.

Kansas is likely to fight this as hard as possible and we will see what happens.

I think the NOA is a bit of a joke, but I’m obviously biased, but it mentions things from 60+ years ago.

I also think other schools better hope we win and set a precedent.

The era of amateur athletics in football and basketball is ending and this latest effort by the NCAA is an attempt to hold on to the status quo.

They turned a blind eye to the shoe companies and AAU for too long and now they’re embarrassed.

I can see the argument Gassnola clearly said I put Kansas first implying that he's working for Kansas too. Fans on websites are now considered boosters so a guy who says I'm steering players to you I can see the argument. But it's something new and it's a slippery slope. They can then for example say Dawkins is a booster, for any school he was talking to. Booster for Louisville(Bowen), booster for Arizona etc. Multiple schools talked to Dawkins during the Bowen recruitment, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon etc. If they determine Dawkins is a booster then essentially anybody that talked to him was violating NCAA rules by using a booster.

In the OJ Mayo case they said Guillory was a booster because of a prior incident a few years earlier where he broke rules with a kid who went to USC. That helped get USC in big trouble. if they use that here with the shoe companies, and Dawkins etc, LOTS of schools could get hammered.

So right now it appears Kansas is the guinea pig for this line of allegation.

 

[GatorAZ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

HAHAHA

I hope @TJ is flinging obscenities at him on twitter..

 

[TJ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

HAHAHA

I hope @TJ is flinging obscenities at him on twitter..

surprised I haven’t been booted off of Twitter by now

 

[Russ Smith]

I still say the key in that whole case is the booster part. if you look at the definition of a booster according to the NCAA, C) is basically is assisting in recruiting or is involved in recruiting at a given school. So Gassnola absolutely fits that definition of a booster they have him on tape saying Kansas is #1 for me.

But then Christian Dawkins is a booster for Louisville, Arizona, Oregon, UCLA etc. Remember the standard defense for 2 years has been it's not against the rules to talk to Dawkins or a handler of a kid, everyone does it, you have to. The problem is Dawkins is at the center of this whole scandal. In the trial it came out Bowen's dad said he talked to Arizona, he talked to Oregon, we've been told UCLA had calls with Dawkins, we know of course he dealt with Louisville.

So if you're going to say Gassnola is a booster you get Kansas, but if you're going to say Dawkins is one you get LOTS of schools.

I would imagine anybody that talked to Dawkins in the Bowen recruitment is nervous right now and waiting to see what happens in the Kansas case.

 

[GatorAZ]

I still say the key in that whole case is the booster part. if you look at the definition of a booster according to the NCAA, C) is basically is assisting in recruiting or is involved in recruiting at a given school. So Gassnola absolutely fits that definition of a booster they have him on tape saying Kansas is #1 for me.

But then Christian Dawkins is a booster for Louisville, Arizona, Oregon, UCLA etc. Remember the standard defense for 2 years has been it's not against the rules to talk to Dawkins or a handler of a kid, everyone does it, you have to. The problem is Dawkins is at the center of this whole scandal. In the trial it came out Bowen's dad said he talked to Arizona, he talked to Oregon, we've been told UCLA had calls with Dawkins, we know of course he dealt with Louisville.

So if you're going to say Gassnola is a booster you get Kansas, but if you're going to say Dawkins is one you get LOTS of schools.

I would imagine anybody that talked to Dawkins in the Bowen recruitment is nervous right now and waiting to see what happens in the Kansas case.

From everything I remember from Bowen Sr’s testimony he was never in contact with anyone from Arizona. He testified he heard from Dawkins that Arizona was offering x-amount. Like you said that goes back to it not being against rules to be in contact with Dawkins. Dawkins himself said the ESPN report about the Dawkins-Miller conversation didn’t happen which was surprising considering Dawkins attorney was leaking everything possible to make Miller look guilty. Whatever happens to Arizona will stem from everything Book did or said. I suppose the NCAA will question Book if what he said on tape was the true but he still got arrested, plead guilty to a felony and did time.

 

[Russ Smith]

From everything I remember from Bowen Sr’s testimony he was never in contact with anyone from Arizona. He testified he heard from Dawkins that Arizona was offering x-amount. Like you said that goes back to it not being against rules to be in contact with Dawkins. Dawkins himself said the ESPN report about the Dawkins-Miller conversation didn’t happen which was surprising considering Dawkins attorney was leaking everything possible to make Miller look guilty. Whatever happens to Arizona will stem from everything Book did or said. I suppose the NCAA will question Book if what he said on tape was the true but he still got arrested, plead guilty to a felony and did time.

When I said he I meant Dawkins not Bowen's dad. In theory the NCAA can declare Dawkins to have been a booster for every school that talked to him while recruiting Bowen. That's the scary part, technically he fits that definition.

Gassnola is more obvious because he seems so focused on one school, Kansas, but if the NCAA does it for Kansas, they might do it with Dawkins and then you can understand the claims lots of other schools are being looked at too.

 

[GatorAZ]

KU truly DGAF.

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[TJ]

Imagine the media had Miller or Wade had done anything close to this.

Perhaps Self really doesn’t GAF because he’ll be in the NBA before sanctions hit?

 

[Russ Smith]

So Kansas' response denying all allegations was interesting. The denial part didn't surprise me but if ESPN is accurate they're saying one of their main points of contention was, if they accept the allegations as written, it would to paraphrase fundamentally change the landscape for recruiting for college programs.

yes, in fact that's the whole point of what the FBI and the NCAA did. They wanted to stop shoe companies and agents from paying kids and their handlers to go to certain schools. You can argue all you want it's a victimless crime etc, but their defense seems to be, everyone is doing it, if you penalize us for doing it you're going to force other schools to stop doing it too. That's the entire point.

now we can agree the NCAA is not being honest here, if they were Duke would be facing the same allegations, but unless I'm missing something it's a very odd defense strategy.

 

[DWKB]

So Kansas' response denying all allegations was interesting. The denial part didn't surprise me but if ESPN is accurate they're saying one of their main points of contention was, if they accept the allegations as written, it would to paraphrase fundamentally change the landscape for recruiting for college programs.

yes, in fact that's the whole point of what the FBI and the NCAA did. They wanted to stop shoe companies and agents from paying kids and their handlers to go to certain schools. You can argue all you want it's a victimless crime etc, but their defense seems to be, everyone is doing it, if you penalize us for doing it you're going to force other schools to stop doing it too. That's the entire point.

now we can agree the NCAA is not being honest here, if they were Duke would be facing the same allegations, but unless I'm missing something it's a very odd defense strategy.

NCAA gives schools no direction when it comes to athletic apparel companies.

Individual schools have no say in what said companies do.

If athletic apparel companies are now considered to be advocates of programs and offer undue or illegal benefits to amateur players then the top 100+ recruits are ineligible and the programs they play at, which is every P5 school, are also culpable.

Doesn’t seem odd to me.

 

[Russ Smith]

NCAA gives schools no direction when it comes to athletic apparel companies.

Individual schools have no say in what said companies do.

If athletic apparel companies are now considered to be advocates of programs and offer undue or illegal benefits to amateur players then the top 100+ recruits are ineligible and the programs they play at, which is every P5 school, are also culpable.

Doesn’t seem odd to me.

IT's odd because they're not charging all those other schools, they're charging KU. I get that KU is not the only one, there's lots of bad luck involved here. I'm fully aware Adidas likely did this with UCLA too. I just think it's an odd defense, we deny the allegations because if we accept them, it changes the landscape.That's the entire point of what the NCAA says they want to do, change the landsape

 

[DWKB]

IT's odd because they're not charging all those other schools, they're charging KU. I get that KU is not the only one, there's lots of bad luck involved here. I'm fully aware Adidas likely did this with UCLA too. I just think it's an odd defense, we deny the allegations because if we accept them, it changes the landscape.That's the entire point of what the NCAA says they want to do, change the landsape

No, they’re saying what is known isn’t a violation per the NCAA’s own rules about interactions with apparel companies and everything else is simply the NCAA filling in blanks they can’t know or prove to be true.

The NCAA is trying to state that Adidas employee, Gassanola, and by extension Adidas itself is an arm of the university.
There is no precedence of this before this NOA. The NCAA has no policy or guidelines regarding apparel company interaction like they do other “boosters”.

If apparel companies are now extensions of the university and subject to the booster rules per NCAA than all the gear and funds Nike, UA, Adidas has provided to HS students for their competitions/leagues rules the players (all 100+) ineligible and would ban the apparel companies from participation in these events and school associations.

That gonna happen? If no then you must acknowledge the independent nature of the two entities and any action Adidas or their employees took violating NCAA cannot be considered an action by the university.

Outside of that, NCAA can’t prove anything regarding the actual university and any suspected conspiracy directly contradicts sworn testimony.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah it's puzzling where the NCAA might get the idea Gassnola was acting as a booster for Kansas.

-------------------------

After Gassnola texted Self to thank him for helping get the deal done, Self responded by saying, “Just got to get a couple real guys.”

Gassnola: “In my mind, it’s KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That’s what’s right for Adidas basketball. And I know I’m right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That’s how it should work in my mind.”

Self: “That’s how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke.”

Gassnola, after acknowledging that it works like this at Kentucky, too: “I promise you I got this. I have never let you down. Except (Deandre). Lol. We will get it right.”

-------------------------

I don't know how anybody familiar with basketball and recruiting can read that and not come to the conclusion Adidas is steering kids to Kansas, the kids are being paid, and Self knows it.

If you're quibble is with the definition of booster it's been clear for years you don't have to actually donate money to an athletic program to be a booster. Former players are boosters, fans on message boards have been determined to be boosters. A guy who runs an AAU program, gets paid by Adidas and is admitting in a text that Kansas is his priority, I don't think that's a stretch to say he's a booster. And the NCAA has already ruled in prior cases someone can be a booster for more than one team, which is apparently another one of KU's arguments.

Again nobody is saying KU is the dirty program and everyone else is clean, but unless the NCAA isn't using any of the information gleaned from those trials, it's pretty likely their opinion about him being a booster is based on stuff like this.

 

[Dback Jon]

Also very clear that programa like Duke, UNC, Kentucky are dirty as hell

 

[DWKB]

Yeah it's puzzling where the NCAA might get the idea Gassnola was acting as a booster for Kansas.

-------------------------

After Gassnola texted Self to thank him for helping get the deal done, Self responded by saying, “Just got to get a couple real guys.”

Gassnola: “In my mind, it’s KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That’s what’s right for Adidas basketball. And I know I’m right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That’s how it should work in my mind.”

Self: “That’s how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke.”

Gassnola, after acknowledging that it works like this at Kentucky, too: “I promise you I got this. I have never let you down. Except (Deandre). Lol. We will get it right.”

-------------------------

I don't know how anybody familiar with basketball and recruiting can read that and not come to the conclusion Adidas is steering kids to Kansas, the kids are being paid, and Self knows it.

If you're quibble is with the definition of booster it's been clear for years you don't have to actually donate money to an athletic program to be a booster. Former players are boosters, fans on message boards have been determined to be boosters. A guy who runs an AAU program, gets paid by Adidas and is admitting in a text that Kansas is his priority, I don't think that's a stretch to say he's a booster. And the NCAA has already ruled in prior cases someone can be a booster for more than one team, which is apparently another one of KU's arguments.

Again nobody is saying KU is the dirty program and everyone else is clean, but unless the NCAA isn't using any of the information gleaned from those trials, it's pretty likely their opinion about him being a booster is based on stuff like this.

First bold: Gassanola is a salesman for a company and KU is one of his clients. He could be telling every school that for all we know. They want KU’s business so they want KU to feel important.

Second bold: You’re saying getting your kids into the NBA lottery isn’t a priority?

Third bold: It’s no secret schools mine these apparel companies for inside information to help get a leg up on recruiting. It’s also been considered completely legal up to now.


Russ, this is a legal matter now and your argument well...sucks ass in a legal sense.

The NCAA is prohibited from using information in an open trial. They’re trying to do that.

The NCAA is arguing directly against sworn testimony.

The NCAA is making claims with no evidence.

The NCAA is now claiming violations in direct contradiction of their own rules.

You wanna talk narrative and Russ’s POV. Well you don’t even have the facts correct.

KU didn’t play an ineligible player once notified by the NCAA. KU self reported to the NCAA once they suspected funds and even once that turned out to be an invalid report (kids clothes were actually knock offs)

There is no record of a coach on the staff paying a player.

The NCAA is trying to claim Larry F’in Brown is a booster to KU.

I get it though. You “feel” and “know” KU is dirty.

 

[DWKB]

Also very clear that programa like Duke, UNC, Kentucky are dirty as hell

Every program that has had a top 100 recruit is in the same boat.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I get it though. You “feel” and “know” KU is dirty.

KU is “dirty” in the same sense that Duke, Kentucky, Nova, UCLA, Oregon, etc, etc, etc...are all “dirty.”

 

[Russ Smith]

He's not talking about Kansas helping gets kids into the lottery, he's talkign about steering projected lottery picks to Kansas. that's not the same thing, one implies KU is just trying to help their kids make the NBA which sounds good and is what a Kansas fan convinces themselves is the actual meaning in that exchange. the other is a guy telling the head coach at Kansas the more projected lottery picks we steer you the better, which is why he specifically mentions DeAndre(Ayton) as one that didn't pan out. He doesn't mean Ayton didn't wind up a lottery pick(first overall pick) he means Ayton was a lottery pick that did NOT pick Kansas.

It'a NOT a legal matter it's an NCAA matter.

The NCAA CAN use information gleaned from outside sources, that ruling came out 2 years ago. The NCAA petitioned the courts the ruling I think you're referring to is one Kansas sites have been misstating for months. The ruling says the NCAA can used information obtained from outside sources, such as courts, but the courts are NOT OBLIGATED to provide the information to the NCAA. It didn't say the NCAA is prohibited from using it it said the courts, or the feds, don't have to give it to the NCAA.

The stuff that was in open court, the NCAA can use, it's how NCAA investigations have happened forever, they get allegations, they investigate, they present them to the school, and the school has to prove themselves innocent. It's the exact OPPOSITE of a legal case where there's a presumption of innocence.

Larry Brown is a former Kansas coach of course he's a Kansas booster, hes' also a UCLA booster because he coached there.

And you don't know that Gassnola tells every other coach the same thing. All we know is based on the wiretaps he made it clear to Self he considered Kansas his top priority and that steering players there was his job. That completely fits the NCAA definition of what a booster is.

Everyone knows shoe companies get involved in recruiting, everyone knows kids get paid, Gassnola was clearly paying kids and steering them to Kansas, and it's apparent from the texts that Self knew.

If Self knew DeSousa was paid, then he knew he was ineligible when he played him. If he didn't know, then he didn't break that rule. Kansas has to prove Self didn't know.

All the big schools were doing this, Kansas got caught because Adidas was much more aggressive about doing it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Every program that has had a top 100 recruit is in the same boat.

Exactly what I'm saying, for some reason you can admit that and defend Kansas at the same time.

They're the speeder that got pulled over when everyone on the freeway was speeding.

A big part of the KU defense is picking and choosing which statements from Gatto and Gassnola are true and which are false, which ironically they directly accuse the NCAA of doing. Kansas contends they were telling the truth when they said they concealed payments from Kansas. Kansas contends they were lying when Gassnola said he met with Self in 2015 and discussed the priority recruiting options(kids KU wanted) and Gassnola assured Self that Adidas was here to help(them get kids they wanted).

it actually says as part of why KU thinks it's a lie, is Gassnola's notes were written to his boss to "justify his existence" , that is his job. So Self thinks Gassnola lied to show his boss I'm working. Called it self preservation which is incredibly ironic since many people think Self is lying to preserve his job, call that Self preservation.

 

[DWKB]

He's not talking about Kansas helping gets kids into the lottery, he's talkign about steering projected lottery picks to Kansas. that's not the same thing, one implies KU is just trying to help their kids make the NBA which sounds good and is what a Kansas fan convinces themselves is the actual meaning in that exchange. the other is a guy telling the head coach at Kansas the more projected lottery picks we steer you the better, which is why he specifically mentions DeAndre(Ayton) as one that didn't pan out. He doesn't mean Ayton didn't wind up a lottery pick(first overall pick) he means Ayton was a lottery pick that did NOT pick Kansas.

It'a NOT a legal matter it's an NCAA matter.

The NCAA CAN use information gleaned from outside sources, that ruling came out 2 years ago. The NCAA petitioned the courts the ruling I think you're referring to is one Kansas sites have been misstating for months. The ruling says the NCAA can used information obtained from outside sources, such as courts, but the courts are NOT OBLIGATED to provide the information to the NCAA. It didn't say the NCAA is prohibited from using it it said the courts, or the feds, don't have to give it to the NCAA.

The stuff that was in open court, the NCAA can use, it's how NCAA investigations have happened forever, they get allegations, they investigate, they present them to the school, and the school has to prove themselves innocent. It's the exact OPPOSITE of a legal case where there's a presumption of innocence.

Larry Brown is a former Kansas coach of course he's a Kansas booster, hes' also a UCLA booster because he coached there.

And you don't know that Gassnola tells every other coach the same thing. All we know is based on the wiretaps he made it clear to Self he considered Kansas his top priority and that steering players there was his job. That completely fits the NCAA definition of what a booster is.

Everyone knows shoe companies get involved in recruiting, everyone knows kids get paid, Gassnola was clearly paying kids and steering them to Kansas, and it's apparent from the texts that Self knew.

If Self knew DeSousa was paid, then he knew he was ineligible when he played him. If he didn't know, then he didn't break that rule. Kansas has to prove Self didn't know.

All the big schools were doing this, Kansas got caught because Adidas was much more aggressive about doing it.

https://247sports.com/college/kansa...ola-text-referencing-Deandre-Ayton-144656333/

 

[DWKB]

KU is “dirty” in the same sense that Duke, Kentucky, Nova, UCLA, Oregon, etc, etc, etc...are all “dirty.”

Sure, the same way ASU and Nico Mannion is as well.

 

[Russ Smith]

https://247sports.com/college/kansa...ola-text-referencing-Deandre-Ayton-144656333/

You HAVE to be kidding me?

From your link.

Q. Did you feel that you let Coach Self down when [DeAndre Ayton] did not go to the University of Kansas?

A. I did.

* * * * *

The argument from KU is that this line of questioning, however short, highlights the frame of mind for Gassnola. Essentially, the argument is that his responsibility was to Adidas — and specifically that his actions were "intended to 'establish a relationship between [Ayton], his family, and Adidas.'"

"It was never about trying to recruit [Ayton] to KU," the response read.

--------------

They literally asked Gassnola if he felt he let down Self when Ayton didn't pick Kansas, and then Kansas interprets that to mean it wasn't about trying to recruit Ayton to Kansas? Seriously?

He literally said he tried to recruit Ayton to Kansas and yet Kansas is arguing his comment about Deandre(LOL) was a joke an offhand comment and not intended to mean anything happened with Ayton. He's literally saying I'm doing everything I can to steer lottery picks to you, I haven't let you down, except for DeAndre.

If we were in the Politics board and someone put up a defense like that for Trump you would laugh at the defense.