The offense

[Kolo]

D'Antoni's offense was a Nash/Amare pick and roll with three point shooters to clear the lane and supposedly we're returning to it to some degree, but I'm wondering how it's possible with Shaq on the floor. I really don't remember how D'Antoni incorporated Shaq last year (apart from trying to have him run a pick and roll with Nash, until D'Antoni realized Shaq can't do it).

Anybody know what Gentry may try to do?

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. It would be good for Gentry to run the DA offense because it worked. However, I just do not see how Gentry tells Shaq he should be a role player. If a decent trade is out there for one of the two, IMO it needs to get done.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's total BS that a big center prevents you from a running a pick and roll. The Suns have been able to do it fine when called. D'Antoni proved last season that you can do both. Porter to some degree as well. You can run a pick and roll anytime you want, you just need to have Shaq outside the lane area to do it. Not being able to use the pick and roll was not the problem.

Play selection was the problem IMO. You don't keep giong to Shaq when Shaq is not playing well around the hoop. Use your other weapon the pick and roll. You don't keep going to Amare either when teams defend the pick and roll well. Amare becomes a jump shooter in those scenarios or a turnover machine trying to play with his back to the basket.

Porter's offensive recognition IMO was horrible at times or the guys on the court were just ignoring him. I don't know which. Either way, you go with what is working on the court. You expand your playbook to include guys like JRich who is one of the best scorers in the league.

I hope Gentry is better at this then Porter. You use all of your weapons and utilize both the pick and roll and the low post game of Shaq. It's all about balance IMO. Gentry acknowledged that today at the press conference.

 

[nowagimp]

It's total BS that a big center prevents you from a running a pick and roll. The Suns have been able to do it fine when called. D'Antoni proved last season that you can do both. Porter to some degree as well. You can run a pick and roll anytime you want, you just need to have Shaq outside the lane area to do it.

Un no, its been written about ad nauseum, but shaq AND his defender must be outside the lane area. POPs will never direct his defense to guard shaq outside the lane, neither will any other good coach. the problem is amare and nash should have quality minutes without shaq on the floor. This is why KT was a better fit, he could shoot that mid range shot if his defender cheated to help out. Shaq has never been able to hit outside 10' consistently.

 

[AceP]

It seems to be an official decision by FO to return to running system. That MEANS A LOT. It might be more than we had expected, just watch out.

I hate the running system. Everyone knows, it is not going to lead us anywhere beyond 1st round. Such a decision clearly indicates that the target of the team is no longer contending, but a playoff seat, just for money.

What's the point to keep Shaq then? Once he learned that there is no hope to win a ring this season, his performance will definitely drop dramatically, and getting injuried again! Think about it.

 

[AceP]

Just my opinion:

Up-tempo -> more Amare touch -> happy Amare -> Amare stay

Up-tempo -> less half court -> less Shaq touch -> stats drop -> decrease trade value -> unhappy Shaq -> decrease even more

We got to trade Shaq now, may still get something useful back. Or, by summer, all the value he has is 20M expiring contract.

 

[dodie53]

who would the suns pick?

nash and amare (run n gun)
or
shaq (half court set)?

imo,
i'll go with nash and amare

 

[lou_skywalker]

who would the suns pick?

nash and amare (run n gun)
or
shaq (half court set)?

imo,
i'll go with nash and amare

I will go for run and gun. Otherwise Gentry would be another failure.
They have to dump Shaq somewhere soon.

 

[PhoenixMaverick]

We should start running and establish the tempo, All our offensive should be fast paced, nash/amare picks with shooters on the outside. Once we start to get a little cold with our shots, start throwing it down to shaq, saving some energy just to run again.

Run, Shoot, Run, Shoot, Run, Shoot, throw it to Shaq, Run, Shoot,Run

Repeat!

 

[lou_skywalker]

We should start running and establish the tempo, All our offensive should be fast paced, nash/amare picks with shooters on the outside. Once we start to get a little cold with our shots, start throwing it down to shaq, saving some energy just to run again.

Run, Shoot, Run, Shoot, Run, Shoot, throw it to Shaq, Run, Shoot,Run

Repeat!

and dont forget to bring in our "high potential" bench players for fresh legs

 

[mojorizen7]

Well we know that if Nash isn't happy with the direction that Gentry decides to go with the offense that it'll change....again....
What a joke.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well we know that if Nash isn't happy with the direction that Gentry decides to go with the offense that it'll change....again....
What a joke.

Nash has never been a coaching problem. Porter didn't know how to coach the players on this team. Also it appears Nash and most of the players on this team knew it. The joke is that the Suns purged DA before they had the right players and the right coach to fit a different system.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Shaq needs to be playing off of the ball crashing the offensive boards. He needs to be on the weakside of the Nash/Amare P&R.

 

[TBaslim]

I'm glad they are going back to the run n gun style. That is Suns basketball.

Frankly, after all this time, I want the team to win a title, but not by turning them into the damn Spurs. Run n gun can win a title - assuming a dominant paint player or two, fast, multi-talented wings, some decent to good defenders and a PG with vision - see the Showtime Lakers. Heck, see the 93 to 95 KJ/Barkley teams. Baring MJ and injuries, that team wins a few rings.

Even if you don't think the Suns can win with run n gun, they are, like it or not, built for a running offense right now. Nothing but an entire roster make-over will change that. And building an entirely new roster properly will take Kerr a couple of years minimum.

So, what to do? Go back to run n gun, and see if the new parts help fill past gaps. Yes, our defense lost playoff games for us many times in the last few years. But so did our lack of a back-to-the-basket paint player and a dynamic wing player who can create 1:1 in crunchtime. Both of those types of players can draw fouls late in games and maintain tight leads to win, especially against teams that guard the pick n roll well (ie, the Spurs).

We had Barkley fill the low-post paint role back in the day - Amare is not able to do it yet. Joe Johnson was the perfect option wing for late game situations because he could drive, score and draw the foul.

Today we have Shaq and JRich. Not sure they can do it, but those are the roles for them to play in the playoffs (if we get there).

This is why coaching for this team is so important. They have tons of offensive weapons, and are mediocre at best on defense. The right coach for this team would be able to mix and match those offensive weapons, and play as much defense as they are capable of playing.

Basically, Mike D, but willing to focus more on defense. We'll see how Gentry rolls with it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a pertinent quote about the Suns under Porter from an article by Paul Coro of The Arizona Republic dated 2-16-09.

Nash said the team has felt like the "weight of the world" has been on it for four months, starting with an awkward training camp under Porter.

For a day at least, the Suns felt freed but must turn around their season with consistency. They have not won more than three games in a row after win streaks of 11 (twice), 15 and 17 the previous two seasons.

"Considering the circumstances and what we've been through, he's probably the perfect person to take over at this time," forward Grant Hill said of Gentry. "We're going to get up and down, similar to what you saw last year. If we're going to go down, we're going to go down doing what we do and being who we are."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/02/16/20090216sunskerr0217.html

 

[Covert Rain]

Un no, its been written about ad nauseum, but shaq AND his defender must be outside the lane area. POPs will never direct his defense to guard shaq outside the lane, neither will any other good coach. the problem is amare and nash should have quality minutes without shaq on the floor. This is why KT was a better fit, he could shoot that mid range shot if his defender cheated to help out. Shaq has never been able to hit outside 10' consistently.

Uh...yes....and Gentry disagrees with you and so did D'Antoni last year. If you use Shaq to pick off other guys it forces the defenders to pick up the other player being screened. Nobody is suggesting Shaq just stand there so his defender can cheat down. Funny how D-Wade and Kobe both were two of the best guards in the NBA at scoring in the paint with Shaq on their teams.

 

[nowagimp]

. Funny how D-Wade and Kobe both were two of the best guards in the NBA at scoring in the paint with Shaq on their teams.

Yeah kobe and DWade couldnt score inside without shaq, LOL!

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah kobe and DWade couldnt score inside without shaq, LOL!

Your contention was that Shaq prevented guys from scoring inside by clogging the lane. Those guys in the paint numbers were not impacted.

Oh...so I guess this only applies if Amare is on the same team as Shaq. Well thank god the Lakers and Miami didn't have Amare. The paint would have been clogged.

 

[Errntknght]

As far as the halfcourt offense goes, I think the key is diversity and one component of that the Suns need to improve is the midrange game. We've got Hill who is one of the best mid-range shooters in the league so we should have plays/sets where that is one of main options. Not just curls at the elbow either - he operates well on the baseline so we set some baseline screens for him to work off of, too. Then there's Barbosa who seems to forget about the mid-range for months at a time - some coach needs to take the responsibility of keeping him thinking in those terms, and, heck, maybe even some coaching. His mid-range shots are mostly pull ups but they're all good. I have my doubts about Barnes but I'm sure Richardson is fairly good from mid-range if you give him a decent pick to curl off.
Notice how important off-ball screens are to all this - hopefully, Gentry wasn't around D'Antoni so long that he's forgotten what one is. Shaq sets good screens and we should use that to the hilt - and I'm not talking about the pick and roll. Heck, even Amare could use a screen now and then - other than Nash, I don't I've ever seen a Sun set a pick for him. (Okay, KT must have since he was indiscrimminent in setting picks, but Amare probably didn't notice.)
I'd like to see Amare's role expanded some - he's not Boris Diaw but he delivers sharp passes when he does throw them. This means it has to be someone right there in his field of view when he's faced up at the elbow - Shaq down low, Hill or JRich (most likely) along the baseline. Barnes would be a reasonable target, too, cutting in from the corner. The thing is, he's not known for being a passer so few teammates try to get themselves open. Thats where coaches come in, facilitating cooperative efforts. Yeah, he's self centered as Hell, but early in the year he looked like he was enjoying making good passes so the the thing to do is encourage that and plan on him doing it. He gets the touches he loves and it diversifies the offense.
Along a similar vein, I'd say the offense has become stagnant when we throw the ball into Shaq - earlier in the season we saw more cutters. Shaq has always been a fairly willing and a good passer from the low post though there are times when he seems set on shooting himself. A little coach involvement and getting the guys cutting again - more diversity. And don't forget baseline cuts.

 

[Covert Rain]

90 points in the paint 81 by the time Shaq went to the bench. So much for Shaq clogging the lane. Go figure.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah kobe and DWade couldnt score inside without shaq, LOL!

Well the thought of winning Championships comes to mind. They both definitely miss a healthy Shaq.

 

[Sunburn]

Uh...yes....and Gentry disagrees with you and so did D'Antoni last year. If you use Shaq to pick off other guys it forces the defenders to pick up the other player being screened. Nobody is suggesting Shaq just stand there so his defender can cheat down. Funny how D-Wade and Kobe both were two of the best guards in the NBA at scoring in the paint with Shaq on their teams.

Umm funny how Kobe and D-Wade are just awful examples to use here.

 

[Sunburn]

Your contention was that Shaq prevented guys from scoring inside by clogging the lane. Those guys in the paint numbers were not impacted.

Oh...so I guess this only applies if Amare is on the same team as Shaq. Well thank god the Lakers and Miami didn't have Amare. The paint would have been clogged.

huh?

 

[Covert Rain]

Umm funny how Kobe and D-Wade are just awful examples to use here.

How so? If Shaq is such the lane clogger, I don't care how good you are...your bound to see an impact in your in the point paints from a guard position. I didn't say they couldn't score in the paint with him there.

huh?

Which part would you like me to explain? The part where Amare seems to be the only star player that can't play with Shaq in the lane or the part where Shaq being the lane has never been a problem with other teams he has played?

Oh...and the Suns had 81 points in the paint before Shaq sat down for the night against the clips. D'Antoni proved you can still get spacing with Shaq last year. Gentry just proved it's still possible tonight.

It's about execution not about some bogus BS about Shaq taking up too much room in the paint.