The "Pahokee" Offense

[TJ]

This is the name of the Cardinal's version of the "Wildcat" offense. I am watching the Dolphins ripping the Colts to shreds with it.

If you remember, we only ran it a handful of times last season. Boldin set up at QB and Breaston, Fitz, Urban and Edge or TH were in there IIRC. The last time I saw us use this was against SF at home last season.

I wonder now that we have Beanie, we can reinstall this into our playbook. We have many interchangeable parts because of all the weapons. Boldin would still line up at QB because he is a threat to run and/or throw. Breaston should line up as the "X" receiver for sure as a reverse threat, Fitz in the slot, Urban as the "Y" receiver, Timmy or Beanie in the backfield along side Boldin, TE like Becht to block.

Possible plays:

Play action to the half back, Boldin draw up the middle.
Fake to the half back, Breaston on the reverse
Hand off to Wells (once he gets rid of his fumblitis)
TH or Wells in the slot, fly sweep
Hit Fitz on a short slant pattern
Hit TH on a short screen

Im not saying we need to run it 5 times a game, but every once in a while to give the defense different looks and I'm having fun diagramming it in my head. I think this season we could have some success as we have the
right personnel to use it.

 

[PoolBoy]

I agree, but if Beanie is having trouble holding on to the ball I think the wildcat with him would be the worst because these handoffs are dangerous on the wildcat.

 

[Buckybird]

I'm not so sure how effective it would be with Q not 100%. The Colts really played the wildcat pretty well in the 2nd half.

 

[SuperSpck]

What a name for it. I saw that in the Madden game, is it official?

 

[TJ]

What a name for it. I saw that in the Madden game, is it official?

It was coined by either Calvisi or Wolfley. Can't remember.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

It was coined by either Calvisi or Wolfley. Can't remember.

Regardless, it is named after Anquan Boldin's hometown and high school in Florida.

 

[Assface]

The #1 or #2 QB still need to be on the field for that formation. The Dolphins just stick Pennington out wide.

 

[TJ]

The #1 or #2 QB still need to be on the field for that formation. The Dolphins just stick Pennington out wide.

Sometimes. Tonight, there were instances when Pennington was off the field. Gotta get your best personnel out there to run it. Warner out wide just gives me the chills.

 

[187]

Sometimes. Tonight, there were instances when Pennington was off the field. Gotta get your best personnel out there to run it. Warner out wide just gives me the chills.

I'm pretty sure the rule is that the #1 or #2 QB have to be on the field at all times, because if you have the #3 QB in (or someone else at QB) with the 1 and 2 both out, neither of them can come back into the game from that point on. KW would be fine at wideout, all he would do is stand there and get the hell out of the way if the play came his way.

As far as I know Pat White is the #3 QB, if he was the #2 they could put him in and get Chad off the field without the rule coming into affect since he runs the wildcat from time to time. I may have missed some exception that allows them to get Chad off the field, but I know the rule about a #3 QB coming in is right.

 

[HookemCards]

I'm pretty sure the rule is that the #1 or #2 QB have to be on the field at all times, because if you have the #3 QB in (or someone else at QB) with the 1 and 2 both out, neither of them can come back into the game from that point on. KW would be fine at wideout, all he would do is stand there and get the hell out of the way if the play came his way.

As far as I know Pat White is the #3 QB, if he was the #2 they could put him in and get Chad off the field without the rule coming into affect since he runs the wildcat from time to time. I may have missed some exception that allows them to get Chad off the field, but I know the rule about a #3 QB coming in is right.

They mentioned that White was listed as the number 2 last night, and Henne was emergency QB, so you are correct.

 

[slanidrac16]

OC's try anything to succeed. The wildcat is simply not a good fit for us.

Why?

1. If you are going to pass the ball why in the world would you want anybody other than Warner doing it?

2. Any formation that involves Warner being on the field other than QB is insane. It's like 10 guys going against 11.

3. If any play involves Warner blocking somebody...anybody, well, enough said.

I would think the way to defend against the Wildcat would be disciplne-stay in your gap defense. We have one of the mosr prolifc offense's in the league. THere is simply no reason to incorporate it into our offense and go away from who we have on the field, their respective job and our scheme.

 

[jf-08]

I'm pretty sure the rule is that the #1 or #2 QB have to be on the field at all times, because if you have the #3 QB in (or someone else at QB) with the 1 and 2 both out, neither of them can come back into the game from that point on. KW would be fine at wideout, all he would do is stand there and get the hell out of the way if the play came his way.

As far as I know Pat White is the #3 QB, if he was the #2 they could put him in and get Chad off the field without the rule coming into affect since he runs the wildcat from time to time. I may have missed some exception that allows them to get Chad off the field, but I know the rule about a #3 QB coming in is right.

3rd QB Rule:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d809f6279&template=with-video&confirm=true

NFL'S "third-quarterback" rule -- sometimes misunderstood:

Seventeen years ago (1991) the third-quarterback rule was instituted to enable teams to have an emergency quarterback available who was not on the 45-man game-day active roster, since many teams, for strategic purposes, only carried two quarterbacks on their game-day roster.

Everybody thinks they understand the NFL's "third-quarterback" rule. But do they?

The rule states that if a third quarterback is inserted before the fourth quarter, a team's first two quarterbacks cannot be used in the game at any position.

Another aspect of the rule is sometimes misunderstood. It is a coach's decision as to whether a third quarterback will be used.
The active quarterbacks do not have to be injured for a team to use its third quarterback.

Here's more info:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/08/24/emergency-qb-rule-could-complicate-vick-pat-white-situations/

Eagles coach Andy Reid has continued to insist, since the team signed Vick, that Kolb will remain his No. 2 quarterback and Vick will be used a great deal in a variety of roles. Since the league is certain to count Vick as a "bona fide," that would seem to mean that the Eagles wouldn't be able to carry the emergency 46th player. Same with the Dolphins, who don't think White is ready to be the full-time backup ahead of Henne. And that would mean sacrificing a player who would otherwise have been active for each week's game -- a backup lineman or a special-teams player. While that doesn't sound major, the emphasis teams put on kick coverage and the return game is major, and for good reason. Somebody runs back a couple of punts against a shorthanded Eagles coverage team, they could end up wishing they had more roster flexibility.

So: if a team only carries 2 QBs on the game-day roster allotment of 45 players, with the 3rd QB as an emergency 46th player, then the other 2 QBs can't continue. But if you use another active player as a QB, you can use the whole active roster if you want, all 45 guys.

 

[DeAnna]

OC's try anything to succeed. The wildcat is simply not a good fit for us.

Why?

1. If you are going to pass the ball why in the world would you want anybody other than Warner doing it?

2. Any formation that involves Warner being on the field other than QB is insane. It's like 10 guys going against 11.

3. If any play involves Warner blocking somebody...anybody, well, enough said.

I would think the way to defend against the Wildcat would be disciplne-stay in your gap defense. We have one of the mosr prolifc offense's in the league. THere is simply no reason to incorporate it into our offense and go away from who we have on the field, their respective job and our scheme.

'Dis be true.

Is this formation now "standard" in the NFL? Such a copycat league - just because a few teams run it well, everybody thinks they should do it.

 

[Pariah]

Is this formation now "standard" in the NFL? Such a copycat league - just because a few teams run it well, everybody thinks they should do it.

It's "standard" in the sense that every team probably has a few plays in the playbook....and they do it because it works; not every team runs it as much as the dolphins.

As for not running it because of Warner, as is preven above in the rule book: that's bunk. Firs of all, Warner doesn't need to be on the field. If you WANT to have a legit QB on the field to flip the ball back to for a pass on an "end around" (in which the QB would be split out), we could put Leinart in. But there doesn't have to be a QB on the field (as an example, when we've run boldin at QB in the past, there wasn't a QB in the formation, and last night Miami ran a formation a couple of times that was all RBs and TEs).

I don't think the Cards are going to be a team that shows much of this formation, but I wouldn't be surprised if they trot it out a half-dozen times or so through the course of the season.

 

[TJ]

OC's try anything to succeed. The wildcat is simply not a good fit for us.

Why?

1. If you are going to pass the ball why in the world would you want anybody other than Warner doing it?

2. Any formation that involves Warner being on the field other than QB is insane. It's like 10 guys going against 11.

3. If any play involves Warner blocking somebody...anybody, well, enough said.

I would think the way to defend against the Wildcat would be disciplne-stay in your gap defense. We have one of the mosr prolifc offense's in the league. THere is simply no reason to incorporate it into our offense and go away from who we have on the field, their respective job and our scheme.

There's reason to incorporate anything into the scheme. Game plans are changed week after week depending on the opposition. As I mentioned above, we most certainly have the personnel to run that offense and run it effectively.

Sounds like your only beef is with Warner out of position. If you watch the Dolphins, Pennington is not used much more than a decoy flanker. Honestly, do you think Warner is going to do anything else other than stay at his position during the offense? Warner would simply stand up and do nothing. Nobody can hit him in front of 5 yards of the LOS.

10 vs 11 is non sequitur because of its design. If you notice, most plays are either draws up the middle, HB tosses, or sweeps/reverses. How often do you see your QB run in front if their RB on a standard run play? Thats 10 vs 11 too.

If you read my initial post, I didn't call for an offensive overhaul, but rather, a small addendum to spice things up. I can guarantee you it would be more effective than the crappy delay draw

 

[TJ]

3rd QB Rule:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d809f6279&template=with-video&confirm=true

Here's more info:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/08/24/emergency-qb-rule-could-complicate-vick-pat-white-situations/

So: if a team only carries 2 QBs on the game-day roster allotment of 45 players, with the 3rd QB as an emergency 46th player, then the other 2 QBs can't continue. But if you use another active player as a QB, you can use the whole active roster if you want, all 45 guys.

Thats the emergency QB rule which has nothing to do with this. If he has to come in then that rule comes into effect. If you put someone else behind center that is on the active roster other than Warner, its fine. If you saw last night, neither pennington nor white were in the game on a couple of plays. It was all RBs, FBs, TEs, and/or WRs.

 

[Pariah]

By the way, ALL running plays are 11 on 10. The QB doesn't do anything on traditional run plays. If anything, the wildcat formations make defenses play 11 on 11.

 

[jf-08]

Thats the emergency QB rule which has nothing to do with this. If he has to come in then that rule comes into effect. If you put someone else behind center that is on the active roster other than Warner, its fine. If you saw last night, neither pennington nor white were in the game on a couple of plays. It was all RBs, FBs, TEs, and/or WRs.

We are saying the same thing. Some others were thinking that if another player lines up at QB, then the 3rd QB rule takes effect. That is not the case.

A team can put anyone it wants to at QB, but once they use the 3rd QB (that is the 46th suited player) prior to the 4th Quarter, then the other 2 QBs can't return.

 

[TJ]

We are saying the same thing. Some others were thinking that if another player lines up at QB, then the 3rd QB rule takes effect. That is not the case.

A team can put anyone it wants to at QB, but once they use the 3rd QB (that is the 46th suited player) prior to the 4th Quarter, then the other 2 QBs can't return.

ohh I misintepreted your post, sorry.

 

[Doug]

I'm so thankfull Coach Whiz has BRASS BALLS by going for it on fourth down and getting it in the Jags game it will give the team more confidence(hopefully not overconfident) and it really helped to seal that win Sunday when we needed to complete that drive.

I just don't want to see Coach go into his gadget playbook like he did with Randall El. We don't have that type of offense to me.Let Boldin get his RAC the normal way by running over people on the outside that are smaller.

I did'nt mind that throwback pass that we throw long to Fitzgerald.That might even be a good play to run on the fierce pass rushing DE's of the colts to have them back off.

I know we can screen them to death.

 

[slanidrac16]

There's reason to incorporate anything into the scheme. Game plans are changed week after week depending on the opposition. As I mentioned above, we most certainly have the personnel to run that offense and run it effectively.

Sounds like your only beef is with Warner out of position. If you watch the Dolphins, Pennington is not used much more than a decoy flanker. Honestly, do you think Warner is going to do anything else other than stay at his position during the offense? Warner would simply stand up and do nothing. Nobody can hit him in front of 5 yards of the LOS.

10 vs 11 is non sequitur because of its design. If you notice, most plays are either draws up the middle, HB tosses, or sweeps/reverses. How often do you see your QB run in front if their RB on a standard run play? Thats 10 vs 11 too.

If you read my initial post, I didn't call for an offensive overhaul, but rather, a small addendum to spice things up. I can guarantee you it would be more effective than the crappy delay draw

I understand what your saying. It's just my opinion that a team like the Dolphins have to come up with a gimmick because they don't have the personel that we do. I'll take Warner as my qb, Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston lined up at wr rather than anything a wildcat could give us. Keep in mind , many of the things a team can do from a wildcat could be accomplished form our set.

 

[TJ]

I understand what your saying. It's just my opinion that a team like the Dolphins have to come up with a gimmick because they don't have the personel that we do. I'll take Warner as my qb, Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston lined up at wr rather than anything a wildcat could give us. Keep in mind , many of the things a team can do from a wildcat could be accomplished form our set.

The one improvement that can be made is the delay draw that gets us no where because Kurt takes too long to hand the ball off. Not only would Boldin hand the ball off quickly, but he could also run up the gut himself. Nice dual threat to keep the defense on their feet.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think the arguement that says "why would you take away a play that could have Kurt throwing to Larry?" is silly. Thats what every run call is.

I don't like the idea of throwing it much but i love the idea of getting Q carries up the gut like that. I say run it 2-3 times to mix it up a little bit. ANd I think wiz will once Q is healthy again. I wouldn't be surprised to see him showcase it this Sunday night in fact.

What would be awesome is if we could incorporate the no huddle AND the Wildcat. I know that would have Kurt split out wide but if you keep a spread defensive personnel on the field and then have a guy like Q run it up the middle that could cause a DC fits.

 

[azmike74]

I think the arguement that says "why would you take away a play that could have Kurt throwing to Larry?" is silly. Thats what every run call is.

I don't like the idea of throwing it much but i love the idea of getting Q carries up the gut like that. I say run it 2-3 times to mix it up a little bit. ANd I think wiz will once Q is healthy again. I wouldn't be surprised to see him showcase it this Sunday night in fact.

What would be awesome is if we could incorporate the no huddle AND the Wildcat. I know that would have Kurt split out wide but if you keep a spread defensive personnel on the field and then have a guy like Q run it up the middle that could cause a DC fits.

Well, Wiz hasn't called any "trick" plays yet which we all know he likes to draw up and try here and there. I kinda think we'll see one Sunday night.

 

[Shzm13]

Didnt we try something like this last year and it failed?

Washington game, i believe. Or was that something else?