The Playoffs and you

Michael

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Just wondering what you guys will be doing come playoff time?

I read some comments as "see you in october" and such, but is anybody else going to watch the postseason even without our Suns in it?

If so, what team will you barrack for (if any)?

For me it's not the first time Phoenix misses the playoffs, and I'll certainly still enjoy the game of basketball.

I'd like to see Chris Paul and the Hornets to make a deep run in the west but doubt that any team will be able to challenge the Lakers.

In the east, I'd enjoy the Cavs to succeed after KG and Ray Allen already got their ring.
 

slinslin

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Oh the draft is the best time of the year for me so I am happy this awful season is over and I am hoping for a radical rebuilding plan this offseason.
But I will not watch much of the playoffs until the finals or a game 7.
 

elindholm

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I don't watch the playoffs even when the Suns are in them. The biased officiating, even on those rare occasions when it favors the Suns, is just unbearable. The best time to watch the NBA is in the first half of the season, because the league thinks the games "don't matter" and so it's the closest to fair officiating that we get to see.
 
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Michael

Michael

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LOL

Nice avatar, Eric. Always thought it'd be a cloud until I had a closer look...
 

elindholm

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Nice avatar, Eric. Always thought it'd be a cloud until I had a closer look...

Thanks. I stole it from someone else, but unfortunately I've forgotten who, so I can't give proper credit.
 

binkar

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I won't be watching without the Suns in them. In fact, I will have a hard time even stomaching SportsCenter because they will have all the analysis and highlights.
 

Andrew

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I will time all the TNT playoff games perfectly to see if anyone on the Suns roster is an in studio guest, but that is about it.
 

WuRaider

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We still have a reason to watch, root for anyone playing the Lakers.
 

elindholm

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We still have a reason to watch, root for anyone playing the Lakers.

Might as well save that rooting for the Finals. Given the league's financial troubles, a LeBron/Kobe showdown is preordained.
 

TBaslim

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I don't watch the playoffs even when the Suns are in them. The biased officiating, even on those rare occasions when it favors the Suns, is just unbearable. The best time to watch the NBA is in the first half of the season, because the league thinks the games "don't matter" and so it's the closest to fair officiating that we get to see.

Spot on! I can't stand 'the playoffs' anymore - where biased officiating and lousy basketball reign free! Hey Stern: If you're going to have rules - call them the same in all the games.

In terms of rooting - I pick the Cavs - not so much due to LeBron, but because the franchise is a longtime also-ran in the NBA. Be great to see them beat Boston and the Lakers for their first banner.

Gives me hope that someday the Suns could do the same (assuming the coin flip goes the other way sometime).
 

TBaslim

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Might as well save that rooting for the Finals. Given the league's financial troubles, a LeBron/Kobe showdown is preordained.

More truth. Wonder what the book is on Cavs/Lakers, now that the Boston/Laker storyline got airtime last season?
 

cobbler

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Might as well save that rooting for the Finals. Given the league's financial troubles, a LeBron/Kobe showdown is preordained.

There is a flaw in all your whining. Knowing the disdain Stern has for Cuban and the obvious marquee matchup of a Shaq led Suns vs the Lakers, then why wasn't it rigged to happen? That clearly would have got as much or more hype as LeBron/Kobe.

You conspiricy fools never give up.

No doubt Kerr and Sarver were brainwashed by the league office to make all the bonehead moves as well....
 
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elindholm

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There is a flaw in all your whining. Knowing the disdain Stern has for Cuban and the obvious marquee matchup of a Shaq led Suns vs the Lakers, then why wasn't it rigged to happen?

Duh, maybe because a slight officiating bias wouldn't be enough for the Suns to overcome Dallas's 86% shooting all freaking game long?

You conspiricy fools never give up.

And you Laker trolls never give up hanging a "conspiracy fool" label on anyone who recognizes biased officiating.

No doubt Kerr and Sarver were brainwashed by the league office to make all the bonehead moves as well....

No, they weren't. For god's sake, I'm obviously not blaming the Suns' terrible season on officiating. Try not to be an idiot.
 

Darth Llama

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And you Laker trolls never give up hanging a "conspiracy fool" label on anyone who recognizes biased officiating.

Fans of every team complain about NBA officiating. Yes, even Laker fans often feel like the league is "out to get us" because of how poorly some games are called. The bottom line is that officiating in the NBA sucks out loud and it effects everyone. If you're passionate about a team, then the bad officiating is naturally amplified for you and it leads to feeling like the league is out to get you. I still don't think the NBA is "rigged" or that they use officials to push certain matchups, but I understand why people feel that way with the horrible inconsistency in officiating.

In all honesty, I have always watched the NBA playoffs even on the rare occasion that the Lakers weren't in them, or even the years when they had no chance. I don't really know why I do because the officiating really ticks me off as well. If the Lakers weren't a contender this year, I don't know if I would endure the horrible officiating again.

Bottom line is, everyone hates the officiating in the NBA. I even hate it if it goes my teams way. If my team needs the help of the Ref's, they don't deserve to win. We may all like different teams, but we can all agree that NBA refs are the worst in the world.
 

elindholm

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If you're passionate about a team, then the bad officiating is naturally amplified for you and it leads to feeling like the league is out to get you.

No, I don't think that's true. For example, right after the Suns got O'Neal, I thought it was clear that they were getting the benefit of the officiating for at least a few weeks. Looking farther back, we have the infamous Game 7 against Seattle (?) when Barkley was sent to the line every time he touched the ball, helping to usher him and his team into the Finals. The Suns have sometimes been helped by officiating bias, and I see it when it happens.

But in point of fact, the Suns have usually not had the most marketable stars. Nash is a two-time MVP, but I don't think anyone can deny that he gets less respect from the officials than any multiple MVP winner in history. (I believe this is because of his outspokenness on thorny political issues.) Even national commentators often express shock that Nash doesn't get calls down the stretch. The two biggest stars the Suns have ever had have been Barkley and O'Neal, but Barkley was behind Jordan in the pecking order and O'Neal obviously doesn't have the impact that he used to.

But this isn't about the Suns historically getting the short end of the stick. It is about, as you observe, consistently bad officiating.

I still don't think the NBA is "rigged" or that they use officials to push certain matchups

Seriously, I've written about this so many times that I can't believe my point is still misunderstood, or that some posters insist on misrepresenting it. It isn't that the league is "rigged" or that it plans for certain matchups, but that the referees are only human and cannot help but be influenced by what they know the realities to be. And the biggest of those realities is that the league is almost always on shaky financial ground, it relies heavily on its stars for revenue, and everyone suffers when the stars don't succeed. Officials would have to be machines not to be aware of all of those complicated dynamics, and it shows up in their work.

If my team needs the help of the Ref's, they don't deserve to win.

That's nonsense. Every team needs some help from the officials; to pretend otherwise is outright blindness.

The league is not going to rig a Lakers-Cavs finals, but they will make Bryant and James so powerful that it will be almost impossible for their teams not to prevail. James, we can be sure, will recognize it, since his marketing power is always the foremost thing in his mind. With Bryant, we always have to wonder whether he'll choose the wrong moment to launch one of his classic passive-aggressive pouting fits and fritter an opportunity away. My guess, though, is that he'll make good on this one.
 
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Darth Llama

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That's nonsense. Every team needs some help from the officials; to pretend otherwise is outright blindness.

Easy now, I'm not here to troll or anything, but I respectfully disagree with this. You don't think Kobe or Lebron would still be great players even if they weren't allowed to travel every trip up the court? Would Shaq have not been great if he wasn't allowed to elbow people into the front row, or spend 2 minutes in the paint before a 3 seconds was called?

There is absolutely no reason at all that a team should need help from the Refs. If the team can't win the game with the talent they have then they need better talent, not help from the officials. The officials job should be to make sure the rules of the game are enforced equally for all players stars and role players alike. It's not the Ref's job to make players into super stars.

I'm not being blind because I'm not saying this doesn't happen. I'm saying it does, and it shouldn't. I also didn't mean to imply that you believed in the whole conspiracy thing, I was just replying to you when I said that, so sorry if it came off that way. I think you and I mostly agree here, I just maybe didn't state it in the most concise way possible.
 

elindholm

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Easy now, I'm not here to troll or anything, but I respectfully disagree with this. You don't think Kobe or Lebron would still be great players even if they weren't allowed to travel every trip up the court? Would Shaq have not been great if he wasn't allowed to elbow people into the front row, or spend 2 minutes in the paint before a 3 seconds was called?

It depends. If the officials called things by the book, any one of those players would foul out in ten minutes, every game. So the officials do them a favor by letting them get away with the same stuff everyone else gets away with, for starters.

Now, are you asking whether they would be great players on a truly level playing field? Yes, absolutely. They'd probably be very good players even if they got an amount of help that was slightly less than average. But make them play by the so-called real rules, with no fouling, no traveling, no palming, no hooking the defender with the off hand, no lowering the shoulder to create contact, etc. -- all while letting everyone else continue to get away with the same stuff? They wouldn't have a chance.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a team should need help from the Refs.

You mean "extra" help, and I would agree with that. My point is that the referees are so caught up in trying to enforce a vague, bizarre, made-for-TV version of the rule book -- which becomes even more intractable during the playoffs -- that they have to keep a mental tally of which teams they've given which breaks to. Otherwise it would simply be absurd. We're all familiar with the groaning that goes on when a bunch of fouls are called in a short span. "Let the players play!" we yelp. Well, usually, that's exactly what the officials try to do, but that's possible only by ignoring dozens of violations on every possession.

What's the most common complaint that coaches voice about officiating? "We just want the calls to be consistent." Note that they don't say "correct" or "by the book" -- they say "consistent." In other words, "Whatever interpretations of the rules you've decided on today, which I can only guess what they are, please try to enforce them the same for all 24 players on the two rosters." Well, good freaking luck with that, because every player has his own individualized repertoire of which rules he's accustomed to breaking, and the officials know that. Just think of the high comedy that ensues at the start of every season when the league announces, with great fanfare, that such-and-such a rule is now a "point of emphasis" and officials are going to start calling it correctly. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how that turns out. No one in the NBA has the stomach for proper officiating. The referees are doing all they can within the constraints of an impossible system.

The officials job should be to make sure the rules of the game are enforced equally for all players stars and role players alike. It's not the Ref's job to make players into super stars.

No, it's not, but it's much more complicated than that. Once the officials accept the premise that some violations will be called and others won't be, balancing the books becomes impossible.

It's similar to the old adage that offensive holding can be called on every NFL play. The difference is, if one guy gets called for holding a few times in a half, he gets to stay on the field. Take away the fouling-out rule in the NBA, and who knows, you might see some decent officiating, because the officials would know that they could call fouls on stars without jeopardizing their bottom line.

I think you and I mostly agree here

Yes, I think so too, except probably on the question of how much officiating effects every single possession in an NBA game. Simply put, it's everything.

Remember the immortal observation of David Stern: "People don't pay money to watch Michael Jordan's backup." I couldn't sum it up better myself, and those words never stop ringing in the ears of every official the league employs.
 
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Darth Llama

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I see what you're saying elindholm, and you make a very convincing argument. Everything you said about how the rules are applied differently to every player is spot on, and is probably the single biggest part of the problem. My wish is that the league would uphold the rules the way they should be and that players would adjust accordingly because they would have to. Of course I also wish I would win the lottery, I wish we had world peace, etc but those won't happen and neither will a balance in officiating for the reasons you so eliquenly explained.

I guess when it comes right down to it, I have to accept that the calls are going to upset me before I even turn the game on. It's a shame that fans have to do that, but more then likely it won't change any time soon.
 

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