The Seau Dilemma

[Walter Mitchell]

The Chargers must be grappling with quite a dilemma regarding Junior Seau. Thus far it appears that the Cardinals are the only team that is willing to assume Seau's $2.75M signing bonus in a possible trade to acquire Seau. The Chargers have said that they wish to acommodate Seau's wishes as to which team they trade him to. However, the Dolphins, the team Seau wishes to play for, cannot and will not assume Seau's signing bonus, and thus are hoping that Seau will released on June 1st.

If the Chargers can free themselves of an extra $2.75M by trading him to the Cardinals, it would behoove them to do so. They would be crazy to swallow the bonus and subsequent cap hit merely to acommodate Seau's wishes.

All this has probably become a moot point for the Cardinals now that Seau has said he doesn't want to play in Arizona. My question is, should Dave McGinnis pursue the matter further? McGinnis can talk a cat down from a tuna truck. And there are clear positives about playing in Arizona that Mac can elaborate on with Seau. Not only has the organization shown a renewed commitment to winning, but geographically, Arizona would be far more attractive to Seau than Miami, as Seau would be a hop-skip and a jump from his home and businesses in San Diego.

If one believes Seau is washed up then it isn't worth the effort to persuade him anyway. I believe Seau has three more great years in his tires. And if the Cardinals were to acquire him, they could commit to the 3-4 defense once and for all, which, as I and others have been saying all along, suits the Cardinal personnel to a t. Think of it, Junior Seau and Ronald McKinnon, side by side in the 3-4, with Raynoch Thompson and potential draft pick Terrell Suggs on the edges.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell
The Chargers must be grappling with quite a dilemma regarding Junior Seau. Thus far it appears that the Cardinals are the only team that is willing to assume Seau's $2.75M signing bonus in a possible trade to acquire Seau. The Chargers have said that they wish to acommodate Seau's wishes as to which team they trade him to. However, the Dolphins, the team Seau wishes to play for, cannot and will not assume Seau's signing bonus, and thus are hoping that Seau will released on June 1st.

If the Chargers can free themselves of an extra $2.75M by trading him to the Cardinals, it would behoove them to do so. They would be crazy to swallow the bonus and subsequent cap hit merely to acommodate Seau's wishes.

All this has probably become a moot point for the Cardinals now that Seau has said he doesn't want to play in Arizona. My question is, should Dave McGinnis pursue the matter further? McGinnis can talk a cat down from a tuna truck. And there are clear positives about playing in Arizona that Mac can elaborate on with Seau. Not only has the organization shown a renewed commitment to winning, but geographically, Arizona would be far more attractive to Seau than Miami, as Seau would be a hop-skip and a jump from his home and businesses in San Diego.

If one believes Seau is washed up then it isn't worth the effort to persuade him anyway. I believe Seau has three more great years in his tires. And if the Cardinals were to acquire him, they could commit to the 3-4 defense once and for all, which, as I and others have been saying all along, suits the Cardinal personnel to a t. Think of it, Junior Seau and Ronald McKinnon, side by side in the 3-4, with Raynoch Thompson and potential draft pick Terrell Suggs on the edges.

I honestly believe he wouldn't be worth it.

His play has slipped dramatically over the past few years, so if he doesn't want to play here, so be it. He is no longer a dominate defender, and word from San Diego is that he free lances too much and actually disrupts the defense (which is one reason they don't have much of a problem getting rid of him).

 

[Walter Mitchell]

I say (Say-OW) let him freelance all he wants. Seau is a tremendous competitor...and side by side with McKinnon, Thompson and Suggs, they would be just about as prolific and disruptive a quartet of blitzers as there is in the NFL. The Cardinals would go from the outhouse to the penthouse in quaterback pressures.

This would be a dream come true for Mac. In Emmitt Smith and Junior Seau...Mac can be reminded every day of Walter Payton and Mike Singletary...the two most inspirational and intense players Mac has ever coached.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell
I say (Say-OW) let him freelance all he wants. Seau is a tremendous competitor...and side by side with McKinnon, Thompson and Suggs, they would be just about as prolific and disruptive a quartet of blitzers as there is in the NFL. The Cardinals would go from the outhouse to the penthouse in quaterback pressures.

This would be a dream come true for Mac. In Emmitt Smith and Junior Seau...Mac can be reminded every day of Walter Payton and Mike Singletary...the two most inspirational and intense players Mac has ever coached.

Ed B put it best when he dispelled all thoughts on playing a 3-4....it is not going to happen unless Mac is fired. Mac is a 4-3 guy and always has been.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

Not so. Mac and Marmie toyed with the 3-4 last year in spots. Yes, Mac prefers the 4-3, but he's not a complete stranger to the 3-4. Heck, we all grew up playing the 3-4 in some way or another, only we called it a 52 monster. Same principles.

Reports of Seau's decline in San Diego have been greatly exaggerated. Seau was hampered by painful, nagging injuries last year. Plus, if Seau is so washed up as you and others suggest, why do the Dolphins want him? The games I saw him play in last year prior to his injuries, he was all over the field making plays per usual...and man, can he bring the blitz.

Imagine this too. Vonnie Holliday is just what you want as a 3-4 DE. Wendell Bryant, the same. The puzzle pieces fit.

 

[ajcardfan]

Walter. Thompson, McKinnon and Fisher are TOO SMALL for the 3-4. We don't have a nose tackle. Give it up, it's not going to happen with this staff and certainly not this personnel.

When the Chargers played here last year, I watched Seau a bit, and I was surprised by how he was being handled. In fact, he got so frustrated he got a personal foul flag. I think the main question to answer is his health. Supposedly, he had a bad wheel last year.

I'm not interested in Seau, but the Cardinals are. I also read a report this morning that his agent denies Seau nixed a trade with us. If we traded for him, I'd certainly take a "wait-see-and-hope" approach. I'm much less confident in him working out for us than Smith.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell
Not so. Mac and Marmie toyed with the 3-4 last year in spots. Yes, Mac prefers the 4-3, but he's not a complete stranger to the 3-4. Heck, we all grew up playing the 3-4 in some way or another, only we called it a 52 monster. Same principles.

Reports of Seau's decline in San Diego have been greatly exaggerated. Seau was hampered by painful, nagging injuries last year. Plus, if Seau is so washed up as you and others suggest, why do the Dolphins want him? The games I saw him play in last year prior to his injuries, he was all over the field making plays per usual...and man, can he bring the blitz.

Imagine this too. Vonnie Holliday is just what you want as a 3-4 DE. Wendell Bryant, the same. The puzzle pieces fit.

Walter, yes, we've had three down lineman sets the last two years. But, who did they put in instead of an end last year? Justin Lucas. It was a PASS defense specialty package, not a base D. We rarely used it early in games, and we only we used it, IMO, because we had to have gimmick's with our lack of pass rush.

 

[ajcardfan]

Here's the article from the San Diego paper:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/sports/news_1s6chargers.html

 

[Walter Mitchell]

AJ: Thompson would wreak havoc on the edge. He is a natural 3-4 OLB. He was our best pass rusher last year out of 4-3 no less. McKinnon is BETTER suited for the 3-4 because he has more immediate help in the middle and he is adept at dropping into the hook zones. Also, one thing we saw last year was how good an inside blitzer McKinnon is. Playing in the 3-4 would enable McKinnon to blitz more frequently. Levar Fisher is versatile enough to play both inside and outside on the 3-4. We haven't seen his real potential yet, because, like Seau, he was injured most of the year.

There are differing opinions as to what teams want in a 3-4 NT. While some teams prefer a thick widebody NT who can occupy both the center and the guard, other teams prefer a quick penetrator like a Joe Klecko, who can shoot the A gaps and disrupt the pulling guards. The Cardinals have a thick widebody in Barron Tanner. Tanner could keep the guards off of McKinnon and Seau, jst as they ask him to do in the 4-3. And Marcus Bell offers the team a quicker NT when it wants penetration. In addition, one of the very best NT prospects in the upcoming draft, Ty Warren, may be on the board at #37. If not, Colin Cole of Iowa and Ian Scott of Florida could be considered late on day one or early on day two.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

AJ: I wasn't talking about a three man rush in the nickel. C'mon, man, I'm not that ignorant. The Cardinals played some 3-4 on first downs occasionally. They did so against the Rams on national TV and IMO it was really the only game they got after the QB all year. Do you remember how much pressure they were flying at Marc Bolger? Inexplicably they went back to more of the old conservative diet of 4-3 schemes the next two weeks against the 49ers and the Broncos.

As a former coach, I can also tell you that the 3-4 is harder to prepare for than the 4-3. You have to tweak all your blocking assignments to account for the different allignment and blitz possibilities. You ask any offensive coordinator in the NFL what they would rather play against and I guarantee you they would all say the 4-3. Preparing against the 3-4 gives offensive coordinators fits.

 

[ajcardfan]

Walter, I'm sure we'll have to agree to disagree, here's basic flaws in your 3-4 theory:

1. Tanner can't keep blockers off of McKinnon in the 4-3. He's going to free up TWO lbs in a 3-4? I don't think so.

2. Thompson isn't a great blitzer. At least not yet. He's fast, but if he gets chipped he gets knocked two yards up the field and can't amke a play.

3. We've never toyed with a 3-4. We've played 3-3-5 and 3-2-6. I watch as much Cardinals as you do Walter, I can't ever remember a 3-4 set. Who was the fourth guy, Woods? Who can confirm this?

4. For comparison:

Steelers starting LBs: 252-250-252-242 (Bell, Gildon, Porter and Farrior)

Our guys: Fisher - 233 McKinnon - 248 Thompson 217

Fisher is 19lbs lighter and Thompson 25. Do you really think they can stand up lead blockers at the point of attack on a regular basis? Like 3-4 OLB's HAVE to do?

Seau is listed at 250. So, him and McKinnon might be workable in the inside of a 3-4, but there is the total lack of a NT on our team. Other LB's on our team: Faulk is 241, Young is 223 and Woods is 245. Only McKinnon and Woods are heavier than the Steelers smallest starting LB. Our LB's were never drafted with the 3-4 in mind. And yes, the 3-4 can certainly be more difficult to play agaisnt, but it's rare because it's harder to get adequate personnel for it.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

OK, let's continue the debate. Your argument is that 3-4 LBers have to have weight to play in the 3-4. Weight is actually more of a criteria with 4-3 LBers because they are isolated more against the run. Having the extra LBer in the box means quicker and more immediate help, especially on isolation plays.

If the Cardinals acquire Junior Seau, sign Vonnie Holliday and draft Terrell Suggs...what's the best lineup? The problem with Suggs is, can he be an every down DE in the NFL at 252 lbs.? It would seem far more reasonable to assume that he projects better as a 3-4 OLB who can rush the edge on a consistent basis (from a better angle) and occasionally have to cover a back out of the backfield. What about Junior Seau? Would he have more of an impact as an ILB in the 3-4 (his natural position) or as an OLB in the 4-3 (where he is less apt to make more plays, being farther away to one side of the field)? What about Vonnie Holliday? Is he more suited to play the 3-4 DE than the 4-3 DE? Holliday is, IMO, the prototypical 3-4 DE because he's not your prototypical edge rusher that you want as a 4-3 DE to begin with. When OTs will have to switch out on Suggs, Holliday can use his size and quickness to rip or swim through the guard to get to the QB.

 

[Tangodnzr]

AJ....You make some good points here.
Walter....give it up man. I don't know why you keep trying to promote the 3-4 defense. It flat out ain't gonna happen here.
To me your credibility declines with each post you make trying to make a case for it.
And to promote Seau here? I think you've totally lost it my friend.
Please take the time to read some of the other threads where this has already been discussed. My guess is the Cards made a storefront effort in showing some interest to see what it would take to get him....but that's about it. He's not going to play here.
Quit beating a dead horse.

I would suggest you go back to your draft predictions with your typical myriad of trade scenarios. And yes, that insignificant WR from Lower Puget Sound A&I may still be the steal of the draft in round 7c.

 

[Goldfield]

I dont care about what defense were gunna run. We need ANY help we can get...

I say trade for SEAU, and make a statment to the NFL and him, that were in this thing to win...


Old or naught he WILL help this team in more ways than just his abilities to dominate on the field...

He will bring attitude.

He will bring toughness.

He will HELP...

 

[Tangodnzr]

Beerz, I think you've had one too many.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Beerz, I think you've had one too many.

that was last night

 

[Tangodnzr]

OK, I understand now. You're just sleep walking and talking.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
OK, I understand now. You're just sleep walking and talking.

By the way, for a team that is forever at the bottom of the NFL. How can anyone think we can be picky about players?


This team needs to change its perception in the NFL...

If that means take a few chances on guys like SEAU, sobeit...


I want to win, I am tired of watching nfl teams have great seasons. I want to beable to enjoy a GOOD football team...

Can you or anyone else tell me how SEAU is gunna HURT this team? He was/is a great player and that will only do more good that it can do bad. Seriously, can it get much worst?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Seau would hurt this team because he is not a "team" player.
Even in his prime his freelancing may have got him some stats and highlight appearances, but it hurt the rest of the team.
One of the knocks on Adrian Wilson last year was his tendancy to do that a little too.
"Simian" Rice was the best example of that. He gets his ass covered now in Tampa, here in Phoenix the talent around him diminished and he hurt the team with his over running of plays so often because he wanted nothing more than the highlight film sack.

Also, listen to Charger fans who have seen him play the last couple of years. He's over the hill.

Why in the hell arrest the development of some of our young linebackers to bring in this ego maniac who's best days are gone?