The truth about the stadium and Glendale

[Skkorpion]

I've read a lot of comments, mostly from out-of-state fans, suggesting that the stadium's location in Glendale will keep fans away.

Addressing some of the issues:

1. Most of us who don't live in Mesa or Tempe (about 65% to 70% of the Metropolitan area) prefer the Glendale location to any of the proposed locations in Tempe.
a) Parking is far better.
b) It's not any farther to go. And a one hour drive from Mesa or Chandler for a 6 hour tailgate and game package on a sunny Sunday is not a harsh burden to bear.
c) Freeway access is just as good, if not better.
d) Tempe managed the old stadium traffic very badly.

2. The Coyotes don't draw in Glendale so neither will the Cardinals.
a) Hockey is a cult with a limited fan base.
b) The Coyotes have always struggled to draw fans.
c) The Coyotes are bad and keep cutting stars they can't afford to pay.
d) The Yotes play night games during the week, making a drive to a game during evening rush hour very unpleasant.

Glendale is not a problem location. Rather, NHL hockey, here and nationally, is in trouble. The NFL has never been healthier and the Cards have never had this much upside since the team moved here.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I've read a lot of comments, mostly from out-of-state fans, suggesting that the stadium's location in Glendale will keep fans away.

Addressing some of the issues:

1. Most of us who don't live in Mesa or Tempe (about 65% to 70% of the Metropolitan area) prefer the Glendale location to any of the proposed locations in Tempe.
a) Parking is far better.
b) It's not any farther to go. And a one hour drive from Mesa or Chandler for a 6 hour tailgate and game package on a sunny Sunday is not a harsh burden to bear.
c) Freeway access is just as good, if not better.
d) Tempe managed the old stadium traffic very badly.

2. The Coyotes don't draw in Glendale so neither will the Cardinals.
a) Hockey is a cult with a limited fan base.
b) The Coyotes have always struggled to draw fans.
c) The Coyotes are bad and keep cutting stars they can't afford to pay.
d) The Yotes play night games during the week, making a drive to a game during evening rush hour very unpleasant.

Glendale is not a problem location. Rather, NHL hockey, here and nationally, is in trouble. The NFL has never been healthier and the Cards have never had this much upside since the team moved here.

I would tend to agree with you Skorp that Hockey has a limited fan base in our state and Nationwide. While any of the 30k+ fanbase of the Cards will go anywhere to watch them the mass majority will only go if the team is a winner and has players that get national attention. That is just the state of the valley fan. If the Cards are playing out of division against say Baltimore or Carolina what would be the draw for the casual fan to go to Glendale or anywhere to watch them unless the Cards are Consistantly in the playoffs? If the Cards don't win the next two or three years and be a playoff team I think that the stadium in Glendale will be empty and the only ones that will want to drive that far out from the east valley will be the tailgators and diehards ohhh and the Packer fans.

 

[Ryanwb]

The NHL has a serious labor dispute coming this offseason, they are projecting that hockey may not be played at all next season.

 

[Sandan]

Re: Re: The truth about the stadium and Glendale

Originally posted by Rats
If the Cards don't win the next two or three years and be a playoff team I think that the stadium in Glendale will be empty and the only ones that will want to drive that far out from the east valley will be the tailgators and diehards ohhh and the Packer fans.

Duh, if they don't win people won't come. Of course this is true but the location of the stadium has nothing to so with it.

The only expection might be fans in the far east valley. I know one guy who is a die hard fan but works Sun morning in east Mesa. He is thinking hard about renewing simply becase it is so tough for him to get there in time for the game. This is an exception though, for most of us who don't wotk on Sunday, the location is on the freeway and so it makes little difference (speaking as somebody who lives in the East Valley).

Sure I'd rather have it in Tempe, but it only will make the difference of problem 10-15 mins for me, big deal

 

[RedRob]

Personally I think the location will be great. Us die harders/tailgaters will have room to stretch out and tailgate in the proper fashion. Heck, it's tough to simply toss a football around right now where we tailgate. Oh, and attendance will be fine once we start winning.

 

[NickelBack]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
2. The Coyotes don't draw in Glendale so neither will the Cardinals.

THis statement is false to begin with...according to Bickely, they are avereging nearly 2,000 more fans per game than they did at AWA....and they've been playing like crap to boot.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm an out of stater. The Glendale location doesn't seem like a hindrance to me.

A couple of things to consider -

1. Metro areas are really really big. Lots of Giant fans who live in NYC, Long Island, Westchester County and Connecticut cross the river to NJ to attend Giant games in the Meadowlands. The Jets, although they occasionally don't sell out - also draw heavily from Long Island.

2. Each market is different. The Vet in Philly is in a downtown metro area served by mass transit. Pittsburgh and Cleveland's stadia are located downtown on the river. StL's dome isn't really in the core of downtown (like where Busch Stadium and the new stadium are located) but close-by off an Interstate.

3. Foxboro is in a suburb at least a half-hour outside of Boston. Baltimore's old Memorial Stadium was located within the city limits, but 20 minutes north of downtown. Camden Yards is located downtown near the Inner Harbor.

4. Greater Phoenix is kind of like LA and Houston - only moreso and less urbanized away from downtown. People are always zipping up and down the freeways to get places.

If the Cardinals put an entertaining product on the field of a well-amentied venu, folks should come.

The only thing that worries me has to do more about the composition of the population than it does the location in Glendale - that being that - at least when I was there during bowl week - the entire focus of the media was on tourist attractions (i.e. bowl games, conventions, New Years block parties etc.) designed to draw people into Phoenix from elsewhere. There was very little attention paid to what was going on in town to entertain the people who lived there year 'round.

This coupled with competing outdoor participation sports (golf, tennis, fishing, hiking) plus the "where you from?" syndrome makes it difficult for a pro team to get any traction with regard local fan loyalty and fanaticism.

But Glendale? What's the big deal. You hop onto the Interstate and drive there in 20 minutes (Or if and when the town fathers and mothers come to their senses - maybe in 10 -15 years, you'll get there by monorail).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

My main concern for Glendale is what's going to be near the stadium. You have to admit it, we're pretty spoiled with the location of SDS being within walking distance of about 100 bars and restuarants. While we'll be fine with the A/C inside the stadium, tailgating is going to be a bitch for the first couple of games in that weather on concrete. Right now, we go to bars for the first three games or so, then tailgate the remaining five. I'm hoping someone develops that land out there with some good sports bars.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm hoping someone develops that land out there with some good sports bars.
Without knowing the local zoning or NIMBY factor in the West Valley, if I were a betting man, I'd bet you'll see all the ancillary stuff (including restaurants and sports bars) sprout up around the stadium. ("It's nature's way.")

 

[Brevity]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
I'm hoping someone develops that land out there with some good sports bars.
Without knowing the local zoning or NIMBY factor in the West Valley, if I were a betting man, I'd bet you'll see all the ancillary stuff (including restaurants and sports bars) sprout up around the stadium. ("It's nature's way.")

All of the land adjacent to the Coyotes arena and the Cards stadium will be used for shops, restaurants etc. In fact if you drive by right now, you will see building pads already prepared for the these businesses.

The developer has a clear vision of what is needed to make the site sucessful.

 

[LogeLunatic]

I believe the development is called WESTGATE and it is going to be huge! If you go to the new arena for a hockey game, check out the model they have there showing what the area will look like very soon. This all will be in prior to the CARDS ever playing a game there, which is a good thing.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Addressing some of the issues:

1. Most of us who don't live in Mesa or Tempe (about 65% to 70% of the Metropolitan area) prefer the Glendale location to any of the proposed locations in Tempe.
a) Parking is far better.
b) It's not any farther to go. And a one hour drive from Mesa or Chandler for a 6 hour tailgate and game package on a sunny Sunday is not a harsh burden to bear.
c) Freeway access is just as good, if not better.
d) Tempe managed the old stadium traffic very badly.

1. Mesa is the third largest city in the state and getting much closer to passing Tucson in population. Were you referring to fans living in the cities of Mesa and Tempe??

a) Unless you parked for free across the town lake from the stadium and walked to the games, as my wife and I do. We park at my business for free and walk about a mile. A lot of people park even further up Scottsdale Rd. and walk to the games.

b) Not everyone spends 6 hours wrapped up in football on game days. We go to Sunday School/Church in the morning and evening prayer service at 6pm, which was already rough with some late games/OT games. Imagine getting from Glendale to Mesa by 6pm? Ugh.

c) Freeway didn't matter to us here, but will there.

d) Never had to deal with any traffic issues here, but will there.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I agree with Rats. The Glendale stadium is halfway to LA it seems. Unless the Cardinals overall play improves, you will lose even more of the fan base due to the location.

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
My main concern for Glendale is what's going to be near the stadium. You have to admit it, we're pretty spoiled with the location of SDS being within walking distance of about 100 bars and restuarants. While we'll be fine with the A/C inside the stadium, tailgating is going to be a bitch for the first couple of games in that weather on concrete. Right now, we go to bars for the first three games or so, then tailgate the remaining five. I'm hoping someone develops that land out there with some good sports bars.

I post it in another thread where we should have the next draft party. Its in 83rd and Bell across the Peoria sports complex. The 2nd Mcduffys bar is located there. Its is two story bar from what I heard. The sports bar is located about 2 miles away from the stadium.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
I agree with Rats. The Glendale stadium is halfway to LA it seems. Unless the Cardinals overall play improves, you will lose even more of the fan base due to the location.

It might loose some but then again it will gain some also. Maybe people from the west valley didn't go for all the same reasons you speak of. I guess only time will tell.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
I agree with Rats. The Glendale stadium is halfway to LA it seems. Unless the Cardinals overall play improves, you will lose even more of the fan base due to the location.

How do you figure?

The Coyotes are playing like turds and they are up nearly 2,000 per game.....

 

[Bobcat]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
I agree with Rats. The Glendale stadium is halfway to LA it seems. Unless the Cardinals overall play improves, you will lose even more of the fan base due to the location.

Sour grapes to me!!! Snottsdale, Larue-Mesa. have and had their chance for the new stadium. But as the new demographics show. Glendale is the place of the futre for the Valley of the Sun. They have a progressive Govenrment. It is growing faster than any other location in the valley. Also a better tax base.

So cry me a river. I've been traveling to Tempe for years and it didn't matter to me or my family.

And also if you are a true Cardinal fan win or lose you support your local team.


Allan

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
My main concern for Glendale is what's going to be near the stadium.

Already started:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=24842

 

[abomb]

Yeah, I agree. D-Dogg and I have quite a drive from the far North Valley and we don't complain (too much). Just think, it gives you more time to listen to Cardinals pre-game show.

As for the Glendale location goes, the West valley is growing very quickly esp with that new master-planned community out past Goodyear just starting up.

A-Bomb

 

[Jim O]

Originally posted by abomb
Just think, it gives you more time to listen to Cardinals pre-game show.

Hey, thank you!

By the way, this gives me the perfect opportunity to plug some of the funniest features from the 2003 Pre Game Huddle:

2003 Outtakes and Features

You must be registered for see images

Top: (L to R) Dan Manucci, Eric Hill, John Mistler
Mid: (L to R) Doug Plank, Dave Pasch, Mike Jurecki
Bot: John Holmberg

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Bobcat
Sour grapes to me!!! Snottsdale, Larue-Mesa. have and had their chance for the new stadium. But as the new demographics show. Glendale is the place of the futre for the Valley of the Sun. They have a progressive Govenrment. It is growing faster than any other location in the valley. Also a better tax base.

I was at the hockey game on Satuday night, drove along Maryland Ave - the north side of the MPF - it looked awesome seeing that thing coming togther!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So far I've only heard plans for a Mastro's Steakhouse, Martini Ranch, and a reastuarant from the same owners as Bloom and North. Not exactly prime tailgate venues. I've heard the former owners of Bandersnatch are looking at properties up there which would be nice. But no matter what the put up around there, it will not compare to the perks of Mill Avenue being within walking distance of SDS. I guess I shouldn't be bitching as I always seem to find a good bar no matter where I go in this metro-area.

The drive shouldn't bother anyone. Yes it might be strange for the first game or two, but get a D.D. and drink on the way over. I used to day-trip from Tucson when I was at UA and I didn't mind it, those in the freaking East Valley shouldn't either.

 

[Sandan]

Lets not start this tirade up again folks it's pointless.

So far on this thread the namecalling about East Valley has started already.

Yes Bobcat I'm talking about you, I'm also talking about MaoTosiFanClub who would have liked to use a better F word but the filters won't let him.

I live in Scottsdale and I don't care where it is, I'm just glad they are building it.

Let this die folks.

 

[Jim O]

Here is the website for the Westgate project. There will be plenty of places to get tanked before the games in 2006!

Westgate

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by nidan
Lets not start this tirade up again folks it's pointless.

So far on this thread the namecalling about East Valley has started already.

Yes Bobcat I'm talking about you, I'm also talking about MaoTosiFanClub who would have liked to use a better F word but the filters won't let him.

I live in Scottsdale and I don't care where it is, I'm just glad they are building it.

Let this die folks.

i Is this a message board?? Can't we discuss things that pertain to the Cardinals and there future. You took this in this direction by degrading my comment which you obviously didn't understand....let me help you. I was saying not that Glendale was a bad location, But that a Marquee Quarterback like Manning would go along way to help bridge fans interest in the team when we open the stadium. You made it sound like I was dissing Glendale and the new site. I was talking about fans that don't go now in Tempe but might come to the new stadium if there is a drawing card. The Yotes are failing out there with out Marquee guys and because they have hit a funk. This thing of them up in attendance doesn't even deserve comment. I like the site of the new stadium and I am in the far East valley. The drive is longer but wide open on the 202 and the 10. The whole point was that fans that won't come to Tempe need more incentive to go to Glendale. A/c and a Franchise QB that wins will build a long term fan base. A journeyman QB doesn't do that. Get with the Program.