The Young Receivers

[Chopper0080]

Ok but that doesn't guarantee anything. We're literally about to go into another year with Fitz as our best Wr. We have to upgrade their. I'm not saying either of those kids will be Fitz, I'm just saying because it hasn't happened in recent years doesn't mean it can't this year. There's been 3 WR's drafted in the top 10 in the last 4 drafts, all in 2017, Mike Williams, Corey Davis and John Ross. That was a crazy draft the best player, Mahomes, went 10th, Watson went 12th, Adams at 6 was the best of the top picks(Fournette has been good not great). It was a bad draft with 4 great players in the first round(McCaffrey at 8 too).

Jeudy and Lamb would have been the first WR taken in every one of those drafts IMO.

QB dependent players that go to bad teams are more likely to struggle. When you couple that with a position that is dramatically different in the level of competition in one on one matchups.

My point is that neither of these dudes is a physical freak. Both are short and relatively small. Matching up against Jalen Ramsey, Richard Sherman, and the tough Seattle scheme is not going to ease this learning curve.

 

[Chopper0080]

When you are 6'5" with 35.25" arms you don't need to be a great route runner, in theory if he can improve his hands there aren't many DB's in the league can fight that.

Routes wouldn't hurt to have too though

The only thing that will stop Butler from being a great WR will be if Butler doesn't want to put in the work to be a great WR. You can learn to be a better route runner. You can develop better hands. His size and speed combo is rare.

 

[kerouac9]

Ok but that doesn't guarantee anything. We're literally about to go into another year with Fitz as our best Wr. We have to upgrade their. I'm not saying either of those kids will be Fitz, I'm just saying because it hasn't happened in recent years doesn't mean it can't this year. There's been 3 WR's drafted in the top 10 in the last 4 drafts, all in 2017, Mike Williams, Corey Davis and John Ross. That was a crazy draft the best player, Mahomes, went 10th, Watson went 12th, Adams at 6 was the best of the top picks(Fournette has been good not great). It was a bad draft with 4 great players in the first round(McCaffrey at 8 too).

Jeudy and Lamb would have been the first WR taken in every one of those drafts IMO.

FWIW, I think that Christian Kirk was and is our best WR. He just missed time last year. Can you win a playoff game with Christian Kirk as your best receiver? I dunno.

 

[Russ Smith]

FWIW, I think that Christian Kirk was and is our best WR. He just missed time last year. Can you win a playoff game with Christian Kirk as your best receiver? I dunno.

When healthy yes but he's never healthy for very long so my argument is over a 16 game season Fitz was our best WR last year.

I agree though if Kirk can stay healthy he's our best. not good enough.

 

[TheCardFan]

Can you win a playoff game with Christian Kirk as your best receiver?

Did the 49ers just do that?

They have Kittle but outside of that, the WR group isn't elite.

 

[Russ Smith]

QB dependent players that go to bad teams are more likely to struggle. When you couple that with a position that is dramatically different in the level of competition in one on one matchups.

My point is that neither of these dudes is a physical freak. Both are short and relatively small. Matching up against Jalen Ramsey, Richard Sherman, and the tough Seattle scheme is not going to ease this learning curve.

Ok but you don't have to be a physical freak. Jerry Rice wasn't, Fitz isn't, Antonio Brown(the sane version) wasn't, Hopkins isn't, OBJ isn't even 6 feet tall. Some guys just have the ability to get open, and or catch contested balls. Brown always open, Hopkins, OBJ etc they make contested catches all the time.

I'm not saying jeudy will be as good as any of those guys but nobody thought any of those guys were going to be that good either. In the end it comes down to lots of things, playing with Montana and Young helped Rice, and he was an incredible worker. That's one of the tags you see on jeudy, he works harder than every one of his teammates at Alabama did. he actually had NFL Wr's, including OBJ, sort of "adopt" him as the next great Wr after seeing how good he was and hearing about how hard he works.

I have no idea how good either of them(lamb too) is going to be but I don't think you pass on them at 8 entirely because recent history on top 10 Wr's isnt' good or they're not a freak like Moss or Evans or Megatron etc. Some of the best Wr's in NFL history were not freaks either. That's why we call freaks, freaks, they're outliers.

 

[kerouac9]

Did the 49ers just do that?

They have Kittle but outside of that, the WR group isn't elite.

I mean, it's hard to say that's a template. The 49ers just played a game where their QB passed fewer than 10 times since the 1970s.

But, yes, I guess that if you have the best tight end in the NFL you can get by with a high-end #2 like Christian Kirk (or Deebo Samuel, who is probably as good as Kirk or maybe better) as your top wideout. The Pats did something similar with Gronk and Edelman and a bunch of other guys who weren't great.

 

[SoonerLou]

People think Kyler is going to vouch for Lamb in the 1st.

I think he's gotta better shot with Duvernay in the 3rd.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Problem is he's another slot wr. However, here's hoping Isabella/Butler improve on the outside..

 

[TheCardFan]

Duvernay reminds me of Deebo (playing style).

 

[Russ Smith]

People think Kyler is going to vouch for Lamb in the 1st.

I think he's gotta better shot with Duvernay in the 3rd.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Problem is he's another slot wr. However, here's hoping Isabella/Butler improve on the outside..

He's projected later than the 3rd on most boards I've seen although he did have a good year last year and he is very fast. he just doesnt' do anything but run deep routes, he's similar to Isabella in that regard I think.

If we're going to draft a smaller speedster again Reagor is the kid I love but we'd have to move down to get him in round 1 he won't be there in round 2 IMO and 8 is too high for round 1. Reagor has some DeSean Jackson to him, he's not that good not as elusive but he's insanely explosive.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we are intending to take a WR in round 1, I would rather trade back and select Laviska Shenault. He fits our offense perfectly.

 

[Chopper0080]

Donovan Peoples-Jones would also be a great option. He is really good and would be able to play outside.

 

[Solar7]

If we are intending to take a WR in round 1, I would rather trade back and select Laviska Shenault. He fits our offense perfectly.

You could sign me up for this one. I'd love to pick up some extra picks.

Normally I'm all superstar, but where we are today, there's just too many holes.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ok but you don't have to be a physical freak. Jerry Rice wasn't, Fitz isn't, Antonio Brown(the sane version) wasn't, Hopkins isn't, OBJ isn't even 6 feet tall. Some guys just have the ability to get open, and or catch contested balls. Brown always open, Hopkins, OBJ etc they make contested catches all the time.

I'm not saying jeudy will be as good as any of those guys but nobody thought any of those guys were going to be that good either. In the end it comes down to lots of things, playing with Montana and Young helped Rice, and he was an incredible worker. That's one of the tags you see on jeudy, he works harder than every one of his teammates at Alabama did. he actually had NFL Wr's, including OBJ, sort of "adopt" him as the next great Wr after seeing how good he was and hearing about how hard he works.

I have no idea how good either of them(lamb too) is going to be but I don't think you pass on them at 8 entirely because recent history on top 10 Wr's isnt' good or they're not a freak like Moss or Evans or Megatron etc. Some of the best Wr's in NFL history were not freaks either. That's why we call freaks, freaks, they're outliers.

If I am going to draft a WR in the top 10, the position that has most talent in the draft every year, it better be an outlier. It is like saying it is smart to draft a sub 6' QB in round 1 because Russell Wilson was a 3rd rounder under 6'. It isn't that it can't work, but it has many paths to failure.

 

[Russ Smith]

If I am going to draft a WR in the top 10, the position that has most talent in the draft every year, it better be an outlier. It is like saying it is smart to draft a sub 6' QB in round 1 because Russell Wilson was a 3rd rounder under 6'. It isn't that it can't work, but it has many paths to failure.

It's not even remotely like saying draft short QB's they might be Russell Wilson. it's like saying that guys who were among if not the best WR's in the country, that are now draftable, are possibly worth considering in the draft. IMO you draft the best player on the board when you are picking, if we're picking at 8 and those 2 guys are still on the boards it likely means most of Young, Okudah, 2-3 QB's, Simmons, Brown are mostly if not all gone. If they're both there it means most of the players we rated ahead of them are gone. You saw Harry's comment today about Thomas the OL, that apparently NFL scouts consider him quite raw and not really ready to trust as your starting LT as a rookie, and he's the top rated OT in the draft.

Each draft is different, you don't decide who you're picking in 2020 based on 3 WR's busting in the 2017 draft, none of whom would have been rated ahead of Jeudy or Lamb if they'd been in the same draft IMO.

If I'm rating the guys in this draft for the Cards I go Young, Okudah and then it's a tossup with Brown, Simmons, Jeudy and Lamb in no particular order. if none of those guys are there it makes no sense to me to pass on Jeudy or Lamb because John Ross and Mike Williams aren't great players yet.

 

[WildBB]

If we are intending to take a WR in round 1, I would rather trade back and select Laviska Shenault. He fits our offense perfectly.

No doubt he's good. I would hope that he can overcome the turf toe issue. It caused him to miss a bunch of games. But he's physical, a load. Deebo++.

 

[SoonerLou]

Donovan Peoples-Jones would also be a great option. He is really good and would be able to play outside.

I feel like all those Michigan wrs got stuck with a poor QB situation. They'll be better pros.

 

[DVontel]

He's projected later than the 3rd on most boards I've seen although he did have a good year last year and he is very fast. he just doesnt' do anything but run deep routes, he's similar to Isabella in that regard I think.

If we're going to draft a smaller speedster again Reagor is the kid I love but we'd have to move down to get him in round 1 he won't be there in round 2 IMO and 8 is too high for round 1. Reagor has some DeSean Jackson to him, he's not that good not as elusive but he's insanely explosive.

I doubt Duvernay even makes it to the 3rd round let alone past it. He’s Deebo part II.

 

[Russ Smith]

I doubt Duvernay even makes it to the 3rd round let alone past it. He’s Deebo part II.

I'll have to look more I think many of the projections I saw were before this year but I've seen 4th or 5th round. He's built like Deebo but until this year he was mainly a deep threat guy not a catch and run guy like Deebo. I did just find someone projecting him 3rd round that prior to the year had said 5th(Texas site) so you may be right.

 

[juza76]

No doubt he's good. I would hope that he can overcome the turf toe issue. It caused him to miss a bunch of games. But he's physical, a load. Deebo++.

Laviska has a running back mentally, he doesn't avoid the contact, he breaks tackles but I do think he will miss many games with that playing style

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

If Lamb or Jeudy are Julio Jones/Michel Thomas type players...I think you draft one at 8.

If they are not that type of player, then you let one of the big guys fall to you (Okudah, Thomas, Simmons)

My dream draft at this point would be:

1st Lamb/Jeudy (if they are that type of player)
2nd - Mekhi Becton
3rd - Trey Adams, Matt Peart, Isiah Wilson, Alex Taylor, Robert Hunt

I would love to see this offense with a great OL, #1 WR, and a RB like Drake.

You simply can't count on the current WR room for next year.

Fix the D in free agency.

Problem is, we don't know if they're that player. You have to find out after drafting them. It's a crapshoot. Roll the dice & find out. Same with any player. SK just doesn't get many right, good GM's get more right than wrong. Our GM doesn't fall into that "good" category lol.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I'm sure Mitch will have an article soon telling us exactly what Kugler thinks...

I'm OK with keeping Murray at RT. We have to find some value this off season to improve elsewhere and a 600k starting right tackle that had a 63 grade is excellent value.

The thing is his grades greatly improved. At the end of the season he was regularly grading 70+ and actually better than Hump. He's on a good trajectory if he can carry that on.

He improved a whole lot. I think Kugler can get him even better with mini camps & a full training camp. If Kugler can get his footwork a split second quicker & his bending technique a little more polished...............? He may be our guy? I've been saying it all along, resign Murray for depth for now & see what happens? Same with Gilbert, sign him to a cheap prove it deal. We may luck up & find a good one in the draft? If we resign Humphries & draft Thomas plus have Murray & Gilbert as backups, I will take that.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I know you're more hopeful for the Oline than most. I do agree that Kyler certaintly was the reason for a lot of his sacks.

However, I'm banking on coaching development. Butler, Johnson and Isabella HAVE to be better next year.
I'm going Oline with the first two picks. Fill the RT spot and get an upgrade at C in the 2nd round. Everywhere else is solid enough.

There's going to be a day 2 or day 3 WR that surprises. Time for Keim to find that guy.

I kind of feel the same as you, I still have high hopes for Butler & Isabella, not so sure about Johnson. He was getting the reps, then fell off the charts. I hope we fix both lines between FA & the draft. I feel like the DL needs the most help. You said it's time for SK to find that guy (WR) on day 2 or 3, do you trust him to do that lol? If we fix the DL during FA, resign Humphries & Murray, then I would be ok drafting a WR at #8. I would even be ok with drafting Simmons at #8. I think drafting Derrick Brown would be the best route but others have mentioned there's a whole lot of quality DL FA out there to possibly sign. We will see, our pick at #8 hinges on who we sign in FA imo.

 

[Stout]

Develop better hands? Listen, if one of our kiddo WRs has stone hands, stick a fork in him. You can work on hands, but if you have stone hands, good luck succeeding at WR, never mind the amount of work you put into it.

 

[BritCard]

Develop better hands? Listen, if one of our kiddo WRs has stone hands, stick a fork in him. You can work on hands, but if you have stone hands, good luck succeeding at WR, never mind the amount of work you put into it.

Who has stone hands? It's not Butler

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He has some issue with drops but that's for two reasons in my opinion. He was generally a deep target only so a lot of what he had to catch was over his shoulder or underthrown and body caught. When he was thrown shorter balls on slants etc where he had to extend his arms he had problems, but thats just an experience issue.

Which is the 2nd problem, experience. Butler didn't play a huge amount of HS ball he only had 21 receptions in high school and only played 2 years of college with 120 receptions.

Butler is in the NFL with 141 career receptions. He just needs more experience. While he hasn't been able to practice with the team this year it doesn't mean he hasn't been able to practice outside the team.