This assumption that Leonard Davis is worth something in trade

[conraddobler]

We franchised Aeneas Williams the offseason he was traded to the Rams--we got a 2nd rounder and like a 4th rounder--right? Its just a matter of protecting the team so a player can't leave without receiving some compensation--its a matter of 2 things, 1--the player agreeing to a contract with another team and 2-- that team agreeing to compensate the original team.

The 2 first round pick thing is when a team absolutely wants to guarantee they won't lose a player and they let it be known across the league they will not accept anything less.

I think you can remove the tag and do a deal like that but I'm not exactly sure how it works because it's an oddball rule.

Bottom line there isn't any reason you don't protect yourself, that is what the tag is for.

I think Rod set some precendent here or someone did where we completely stopped using the tag, I know players hate it but other teams do it so I'm not sure if Rod is against it on philosophical grounds or what the problem is.

 

[Zeno]

Bottom line there isn't any reason you don't protect yourself, that is what the tag is for.

Oh, I am not disagreeing with you not by any means.

Him leaving without compensation would be yet another feather in Rod Graves cap...

 

[BigDavis75]

Oh, I am not disagreeing with you not by any means.

Him leaving without compensation would be yet another feather in Rod Graves cap...

It would be a black eye, or would it be a feather?


Catch-22

 

[joeshmo]

1. Take a look at the FA's to be - Slim pickings, so slim Davis is atop that list.

2. To make it worse - Half that list most likely more will be re-signed before FA even hits becuase every team in the league has an average of 20 Mill in cap space. Not a sinlge team will be in the negative. Which also means no cuts.

3. The Draft is not shaping up to be anything close to a good OL draft. There is only one real 1st round talent and the other is an overratted OT from Penn and another who is a Gaurd.

4. Supply and Demand - See Above. Teams will have a lot of money to spend with no one to spend it on especially OL.

5. Like it or not Davis was voted as an alternate, which makes him top 4 in the NFC as voted on 2/3 of it by players and coaches. Guy does have respect around the league whether you like him or not.

This is a totally different FA market and cap economic system in place now, completely different then from just last year. Teams know how to keep their cap in check, teams have a lot of money with no one to spend it on which will lead to overinflated values on medicore players, almost like the baseball offseason this year.

Does that mean 1st rounder - not even I think it does. But you sure has heck can get something good in return.

 

[kerouac9]

Bottom line there isn't any reason you don't protect yourself, that is what the tag is for.

I think Rod set some precendent here or someone did where we completely stopped using the tag, I know players hate it but other teams do it so I'm not sure if Rod is against it on philosophical grounds or what the problem is.

I think that mostly we didn't need to use it. It's not like anyone was standing around hoping that we'd let L.J. Shelton leave so they could throw money at him. When you don't have any talent, and you sign even the most mediocre talent to long-term extentions (Are you still on Raynoch Thompson's Xmas card list, Rod?), then you don't need to use the Franchise tag.

Jerry Angelo may use the Bears' franchise tag for the first time in recent memory on Lance Briggs, according to published reports. Another good reason that we saved our money for this free agent period.

 

[conraddobler]

I think that mostly we didn't need to use it. It's not like anyone was standing around hoping that we'd let L.J. Shelton leave so they could throw money at him. When you don't have any talent, and you sign even the most mediocre talent to long-term extentions (Are you still on Raynoch Thompson's Xmas card list, Rod?), then you don't need to use the Franchise tag.

Jerry Angelo may use the Bears' franchise tag for the first time in recent memory on Lance Briggs, according to published reports. Another good reason that we saved our money for this free agent period.

I'm seriously not trying to bash on Graves it seems to come out of me in waves though because of how he does his job.

He sits there and crows about our wonderful cap space and how wonderful that is precisely when everyone has cap space..... it's like he isn't paying attention to changes fast enough.

Hello Rod, the new agreement means all your plans to build cap room mean nothing.... zip... nada.

So when you said we weren't one or two players away, shouldn't you have seen this comming right after it was agreed too and signed everyone in sight? Shouldn't he have screamed at everyone above him it's now or never, they'll all be gone spend spend spend now....


But thanks for trying.. and have another three years.....

It's things like this that make it hard to explain why it's depressing.

 

[Pariah]

[Graves] sits there and crows about our wonderful cap space and how wonderful that is precisely when everyone has cap space..... it's like he isn't paying attention to changes fast enough.

Yup. One of the biggest things that sticks in my craw about Graves is his comment about how cap room is how a team is measured in todays NFL (or something like that). That's blatantly ridiculous--W's and L's are how a team is measured today and how a team was measured 75 years ago.

 

[conraddobler]

Yup. One of the biggest things that sticks in my craw about Graves is his comment about how cap room is how a team is measured in todays NFL (or something like that). That's blatantly ridiculous--W's and L's are how a team is measured today and how a team was measured 75 years ago.

I'd suspect somewhere in his makeup he's gotten too concerned with caproom which is simply rearview mirror thinking, when you look out the windshield no one has cap problems now so in hindsight the smart ones spent every penny humanly possible. Dosen't mean that worked for them but it's the strategically best alternative and isn't that what a GM does? Think strategically? When your GM is obviously making goofy statements like he did and does it's less than heartening.

Carl Peterson has a connection to Graves, it's well documented, he spent every penney last year, guess who's in the playoffs.

I don't even like Carl Peterson so that pains me greatly to say.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Ed...I totally agree with you here...LD will get no trade action if the Cards franchise him...I have been saying that myself for a couple of weeks...

IMO, there's no way he is worth $11M a year...and quite frankly it looks like he doesn't even want to be here.

The compensation the Cards get for him is the $11M they save on the cap to use toward a handful of impact players.

...But, what's the problem in Franchising him, just to see if they can get some action...and, then if they don't, remove the tag and let him walk?

 

[conraddobler]

...But, what's the problem in Franchising him, just to see if they can get some action...and, then if they don't, remove the tag and let him walk?

We just fixed the line, Rod said he'd talk to him, Rod get out your persuasion shoes and keep the man please.....!!!!!!!

I'm serious Big, a new remote controlled Hummer 1/10 scale every game without a false start and you can even chase Edge around the locker room with it, he said he's cool with that.

 

[joeshmo]

Yup. One of the biggest things that sticks in my craw about Graves is his comment about how cap room is how a team is measured in todays NFL (or something like that). That's blatantly ridiculous--W's and L's are how a team is measured today and how a team was measured 75 years ago.

Did he really say that. Man I missed that.

Does Graves know that the average amount of cap space this coming offseason is 20 Mill. Every team is super bowl bowl bound.

 

[Shane]

Loney, the Offensive line coach said Big grades out as the best lineman the Cardinals had this season. I think we will listen to that guy over Ed telling us how on his VCR( do people still have these?) Big is a total loss and no one will give us anything for him. There are not enough options out there for the Cardinals to be cutting ties with there Best Olineman when they can't spend all the cap money they have anyways. Pay him and if there is not a better LT play him there. He is no longer on the blindside and he does well in the run blocking schemes.

Loney also said that Reggie Wells gradedout as our best OL after last season playing Guard. He sucked ass at guard all season this year. So we know important and credible his grading system is.

 

[BACH]

Please find me one example in NFL history of a head coach being hired with a staff already in place.

I'll wait.

It's not that uncommon to keep most of the coaching staff on one side intact
if that unit is pretty good and the new HC focused on the opposite side of the ball.

I don't see a problem with keeping e.g. Loney, Krucz and Wilson if we hire a defensive minded HC like Rivera. And it wouldn't be that unusual.

Marvin Lewis kept most of the offensive staff, when he took over.
Saban kept several defensive coaches when he took over the Dolphins.
Shell kept Ryan and his defensive staff (or was forced to).

The best example is probably the Bills just last season. Jauron kept the entire offensive coaching staff when he took over.

 

[Rats]

Loney also said that Reggie Wells gradedout as our best OL after last season playing Guard. He sucked ass at guard all season this year. So we know important and credible his grading system is.

Yeah, he sucked so bad Buffalo was ready to back up the vault for him and offered him big money so we had to match, it was more the center play that sucked making even the better guys look like trash. Talk about revisionest history.

 

[Pariah]

Did he really say that. Man I missed that.

Does Graves know that the average amount of cap space this coming offseason is 20 Mill. Every team is super bowl bowl bound.

He did. I'll look for it.

 

[Pariah]

Did he really say that. Man I missed that.

Does Graves know that the average amount of cap space this coming offseason is 20 Mill. Every team is super bowl bowl bound.

To be fair, he doesn't say it's the only measure...

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=78430&highlight=graves+health

 

[Shane]

Yeah, he sucked so bad Buffalo was ready to back up the vault for him and offered him big money so we had to match, it was more the center play that sucked making even the better guys look like trash. Talk about revisionest history.

That was not rivisionist history. He blew at G all year long. If you are disputing that then you are truly showing the revisionist history here not me. But if you wanna blame Wells bad play and getting man handled o the center more power to you.

Buffalo offering him what they did isnt a glaring endorsement. Many team have busted open the vault for mediocre and undeserving players. Happens all the time.

 

[Duckjake]

If this team is going to get better, you can't keep using the draft to plug holes that you made yourself.

A more accurate description of Cardinal personnel management has never been posted on this board.

The Cardinals have been doing that for years and it reached its peak with the 2003 team when they finally made far more holes than they could fill.

 

[Stout]

OK. Zing. I lose.

I still think there's a difference in what we have here and the TB Super Bowl defense or the Colts offense.

Hey, don't get me wrong...I agree that I don't want a new coach saddled with old assistants. I just had someone out me with this knowledge yesterday, so I had to do it too

 

[ajcardfan]

Hey, don't get me wrong...I agree that I don't want a new coach saddled with old assistants. I just had someone out me with this knowledge yesterday, so I had to do it too

I think if you are going to do that, you should point out that defense was actually GOOD and a playoff team.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'm with Ed. Dump Big.

I can't see the problem; we've got (xxxxxxx) on the roster who can easily take his place, (xxxxxxx) is a free agent who's better and certainly cheaper, and I'm sure that (xxxxxxx) will be available on draft day.

Left tackle is the least of our problems... get his fat ass out of town!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I disagree with Ed(and i agree with him on alot of things). This was only the 3rd year he has played LT in the NFL and looks to be coming into his own. I think it's pretty good that he's been a pro-bowl alternate for 2 of the 3 years. Especially when Jones and Pace are pretty much locked into the top 2 spots. As for guys like Ware, they go around alot of LT's that's why they are up there evry year in the sack leaders. People mainly don't like Davis because of his false starts but to have a glaring,gaping hole at arguably the 2nd most important position on the offense is no way to do business. They could easily franchise him as a protective measure until the draft. If Joe Thomas is available,and we select him to be the LT,then you can work a deal for Davis with a team for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. That's still getting something for him, possibly a very good player, and a pretty good strategy. I just hope Graves doesn't revert to his old ways when he said he'd rather let Thomas Jones walk than get a late round pick for him. I never did understand that thinking. In the end we got Marquise Walker, which turned out to be nothing, but at least we made an attempt to get something.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Loney also said that Reggie Wells gradedout as our best OL after last season playing Guard. He sucked ass at guard all season this year. So we know important and credible his grading system is.

Seriously! We've had 10 different idiot O-Line coaches in the last 10 years. Last time I checked, Loney isn't exactly a legend in the business.

What are we supposed to do in the trade talks, say "I know you think Davis is mediocre, but rest assured that Steve Loney says he's our best lineman."

Which would lead any rational GM to ask "If he's so good then why are you trading him?"

 

[Duckjake]

I'm with Ed. Dump Big.

I can't see the problem; we've got (xxxxxxx) on the roster who can easily take his place, (xxxxxxx) is a free agent who's better and certainly cheaper, and I'm sure that (xxxxxxx) will be available on draft day.

Left tackle is the least of our problems... get his fat out of town!

If Big is so bad you want him out of town right away then LD needs to take Wells with him because Reggie's no better and probably worse. Just because a guy was a late round selection doesn't mean you keep him around if he's not any good.

We can just sign a FA Right Tackle and draft a Left Tackle. Nothing to it.

Punching holes in the dam with one hand and sticking thumbs in the holes with the other.

 

[earthsci]

If Big is so bad you want him out of town right away then LD needs to take Wells with him because Reggie's no better and probably worse. Just because a guy was a late round selection doesn't mean you keep him around if he's not any good.

We can just sign a FA Right Tackle and draft a Left Tackle. Nothing to it.

Punching holes in the dam with one hand and sticking thumbs in the holes with the other.

DJ,
Crazy Canuck probably should have used this because he was being sarcastic.