This would NEVER happen but if the Hawks traded....

[Yuma]

Let's say Belkin really is upset about trading away draft picks. I know this trade would never work, but if the Suns said they would forego the draft picks for Zaza Pachulia (SP) who the Hawks just signed, a young 21 year old center, and Boris Diaw for JJ would that be enough in trade for the Suns?

 

[PhxGametime]

No!!!

 

[scotsman13]

cant be done. you cant sign a RFA to a contract and then trade him. unless it is part of a sign and trade.

 

[HooverDam]

cant be done. you cant sign a RFA to a contract and then trade him. unless it is part of a sign and trade.

I thought you could if it was within a certain window (like 24hours), but that has already passed. Can the FA waive that rule, seems like he should be able to, since its his career and all.

Anywho, I'd take that trade if they through in a protected 1st from Atl as well.

 

[elindholm]

Can the FA waive that rule, seems like he should be able to, since its his career and all.

No; the rule is to close a salary-cap loophole, not to protect the player.

 

[SweetD]

No thank you. I say the Suns take the deal that was given and nothing less. If JJ is the "next Bird" then he is worth nothing less.

 

[devilalum]

No thank you. I say the Suns take the deal that was given and nothing less. If JJ is the "next Bird" then he is worth nothing less.

This is a good point.

I bet Sarver and BC will bring this comment up if the Hawks try to lower their offer.

How can your owners stand up in court and tell a judge that JJ is the next Bird then try to give you a low ball offer.

If anything the Suns should call the Hawks and say, "We didn't realize we were sending you the next Bird, I think we're gonna need a little more compensation."

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's say Belkin really is upset about trading away draft picks. I know this trade would never work, but if the Suns said they would forego the draft picks for Zaza Pachulia (SP) who the Hawks just signed, a young 21 year old center, and Boris Diaw for JJ would that be enough in trade for the Suns?

I do think the NBA Commissioner owes the Suns an exception to the rules under these circumstances and I think he has the authority to grant it.

I still like the original offer and hope it stands.

However, I do like Pachulia and if it would keep it out of court and legal entanglements, I would take: Pachulia + Atlanta 1st + Diaw + trade exception for JJ. I would definitely want a first round pick out of the matter and if push came to shove, I would take the LA pick.

I guess it's really for most Suns' fans, how much do you value Pachulia?

I would really like a 21 year old FC with alot of upside on our roster than an uncertain draft pick.

 

[JS22]

Just give me Josh Smith and a 2 year lotto protected pick.

Is that asking too much? I mean, since JJ is the next Bird and all.

 

[Chaplin]

Just give me Josh Smith and a 2 year lotto protected pick.

Is that asking too much? I mean, since JJ is the next Bird and all.

That not enough. Josh Smith is overrated by this board--but that's no surprise.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

Discussiona about Pachulia are moot, since League trade rules prohibit it...and since Pachulia already signed the offer sheet, a three way sign and trade can no longer be initiated.


The current deal on the table is Diaw (a former 1st round pick), Atlanta's 1st (protected) + the Lakers 1st (protected)...for a total of 3 firsts (the trade exception is a result of the salary exchanges and is not an inclusion in the trade)....1/2 JJ's $12mil salary for BYC = $6mil...minus Diaw's $1.1mil salary = $4.9mil trade exception.

The judges ruling made it appear that 3 firsts was too much to give up...

...would either side consider: Diaw + Atlanta #1 (unprotected) for JJ?

The Suns would get a single unprotected 1st next year (probable high lottery pick)...plus Diaw...and could then use their own pick and the trade exception to pursue another veteran. Many would consider the unprotected more valuable than the two protected. JJ for Diaw and a lottery pick in 2006.

Atlanta loses the protection...but gets to keep one of their firsts, conserving future assets. And face it...Atlanta needs to win now...they used the second pick in the draft on Williams...and though he may develop into a fine player, his Summer play suggests he is years away. JJ would produce for them now, and would help the development of their other young players. Which helps the Hawks more...another lottery pick next year and Diaw....or JJ?

...And it would end the Soap Opera and allow both teams to get on with their business....

...(Just a thought)...

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I do think the NBA Commissioner owes the Suns an exception to the rules under these circumstances and I think he has the authority to grant it.

I still like the original offer and hope it stands.

However, I do like Pachulia and if it would keep it out of court and legal entanglements, I would take: Pachulia + Atlanta 1st + Diaw + trade exception for JJ. I would definitely want a first round pick out of the matter and if push came to shove, I would take the LA pick.

I guess it's really for most Suns' fans, how much do you value Pachulia?

I would really like a 21 year old FC with alot of upside on our roster than an uncertain draft pick.

I like your thought process...and I too think Pachulia has potential...

...but the Commissioner does NOT have the authority to suspend the rules. The salary cap and trade guidelines were collectively negotiated, and written into the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Any deviation would require unilateral approval...and a permanent ammendment...highly unlikely.

 

[cepstrum]

Discussiona about Pachulia are moot, since League trade rules prohibit it...and since Pachulia already signed the offer sheet, a three way sign and trade can no longer be initiated.


The current deal on the table is Diaw (a former 1st round pick), Atlanta's 1st (protected) + the Lakers 1st (protected)...for a total of 3 firsts (the trade exception is a result of the salary exchanges and is not an inclusion in the trade)....1/2 JJ's $12mil salary for BYC = $6mil...minus Diaw's $1.1mil salary = $4.9mil trade exception.

The judges ruling made it appear that 3 firsts was too much to give up...

...would either side consider: Diaw + Atlanta #1 (unprotected) for JJ?

The Suns would get a single unprotected 1st next year (probable high lottery pick)...plus Diaw...and could then use their own pick and the trade exception to pursue another veteran. Many would consider the unprotected more valuable than the two protected. JJ for Diaw and a lottery pick in 2006.

Atlanta loses the protection...but gets to keep one of their firsts, conserving future assets. And face it...Atlanta needs to win now...they used the second pick in the draft on Williams...and though he may develop into a fine player, his Summer play suggests he is years away. JJ would produce for them now, and would help the development of their other young players. Which helps the Hawks more...another lottery pick next year and Diaw....or JJ?

...And it would end the Soap Opera and allow both teams to get on with their business....

...(Just a thought)...

I saw your post on the ESPN forum regarding this and I thought it was a pretty good idea. I dont think that ATL would bite, but Phoenix probably would. I'd do it in a second. I wouldnt mind Rudy Gay in a suns uni.

 

[devilalum]

Discussiona about Pachulia are moot, since League trade rules prohibit it...and since Pachulia already signed the offer sheet, a three way sign and trade can no longer be initiated.


The current deal on the table is Diaw (a former 1st round pick), Atlanta's 1st (protected) + the Lakers 1st (protected)...for a total of 3 firsts (the trade exception is a result of the salary exchanges and is not an inclusion in the trade)....1/2 JJ's $12mil salary for BYC = $6mil...minus Diaw's $1.1mil salary = $4.9mil trade exception.

The judges ruling made it appear that 3 firsts was too much to give up...

...would either side consider: Diaw + Atlanta #1 (unprotected) for JJ?

The Suns would get a single unprotected 1st next year (probable high lottery pick)...plus Diaw...and could then use their own pick and the trade exception to pursue another veteran. Many would consider the unprotected more valuable than the two protected. JJ for Diaw and a lottery pick in 2006.

Atlanta loses the protection...but gets to keep one of their firsts, conserving future assets. And face it...Atlanta needs to win now...they used the second pick in the draft on Williams...and though he may develop into a fine player, his Summer play suggests he is years away. JJ would produce for them now, and would help the development of their other young players. Which helps the Hawks more...another lottery pick next year and Diaw....or JJ?

...And it would end the Soap Opera and allow both teams to get on with their business....

...(Just a thought)...

The concept of the protected pick is pretty funny if you think about it.

We're giving you a pick for this guy because we think he will make us better but just in case we still suck we want our pick protected.

 

[Mainstreet]

Discussiona about Pachulia are moot, since League trade rules prohibit it...and since Pachulia already signed the offer sheet, a three way sign and trade can no longer be initiated.

I reiterate, I think the Commissioner can give the Suns an exception to the rules in this unlikely circumstance...

I want Pachulia + Diaw + Atlanta's unprotected #1 + trade exception for JJ.

Maybe the Suns should also demand the Hawks' first born son.

Okay, I would except, if absolutely necessary: Pachulia + Diaw + protected Atlanta first + trade exception.

They can keep the LA pick and their first born son.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I saw your post on the ESPN forum regarding this and I thought it was a pretty good idea. I dont think that ATL would bite, but Phoenix probably would. I'd do it in a second. I wouldnt mind Rudy Gay in a suns uni.

You read my mind on that one.... it would be worth a shot at the Rudy Gay sweepstakes...so much so I'd do the deal straight up...JJ for Atlanta's 2006 unprotected pick...and Atlanta keeps Diaw (and our trade exception would increase to $6million).

Atlanta wouldn't need Rudy Gay anyway...with Childress and JJ on the roster.

 

[JS22]

That not enough. Josh Smith is overrated by this board--but that's no surprise.

Do you ever have a post where you dont take a little jab at someone on this board?

 

[Chaplin]

Do you ever have a post where you dont take a little jab at someone on this board?

You don't think people overrate players on this board?? Way to stay on topic. Geez, get a backbone.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I reiterate, I think the Commissioner can give the Suns an exception to the rules in this unlikely circumstance...

I want Pachulia + Diaw + Atlanta's unprotected #1 + trade exception for JJ.

Maybe the Suns should also demand the Hawks' first born son.

Okay, I would except, if absolutely necessary: Pachulia + Diaw + protected Atlanta first + trade exception.

They can keep the LA pick and their first born son.

I appreciate your opinion...but if you review the old cba (www.nbpa.com), the Commissioner doesn't have the authority to violate collectively bargained Articles...(you can view the wording for yourself).

Now...it IS very possible that the NEW CBA may have provisions that could deal with this sort of things under Article XXXI Grievances and Arbitration Procedures..........but I haven't seen a copy of the new CBA yet.

Additionally...Atlanta isn't giving us a trade exception as part of the deal...it is a natural function of the differences in salaries...Phoenix gives up JJ's BYC value of $6mil (1/2 or $12 mil contract).....and takes back only $1.1 in Diaw's contract....leaving a $4.9 "trade exception". If we did the deal straight up for the picks, the trade exception would be $6 mil.

 

[Chaplin]

We're not getting Pachulia and we're not getting an immediate unprotected first round pick from the dregs of the league.

 

[myrondizzo]

You read my mind on that one.... it would be worth a shot at the Rudy Gay sweepstakes...so much so I'd do the deal straight up...JJ for Atlanta's 2006 unprotected pick...and Atlanta keeps Diaw (and our trade exception would increase to $6million).

Atlanta wouldn't need Rudy Gay anyway...with Childress and JJ on the roster.

i would rather have a shot at the oden sweepstakes. so make it unprotected for 2007.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

We're not getting Pachulia and we're not getting an immediate unprotected first round pick from the dregs of the league.

Stop it. You are ruining my daydream about Nash dishing the ball to Raja Bell, Rudy Gay, Marion, and Amare...

 

[Mainstreet]

I appreciate your opinion...but if you review the old cba (www.nbpa.com), the Commissioner doesn't have the authority to violate collectively bargained Articles...(you can view the wording for yourself).

Now...it IS very possible that the NEW CBA may have provisions that could deal with this sort of things under Article XXXI Grievances and Arbitration Procedures..........but I haven't seen a copy of the new CBA yet.

Additionally...Atlanta isn't giving us a trade exception as part of the deal...it is a natural function of the differences in salaries...Phoenix gives up JJ's BYC value of $6mil (1/2 or $12 mil contract).....and takes back only $1.1 in Diaw's contract....leaving a $4.9 "trade exception". If we did the deal straight up for the picks, the trade exception would be $6 mil.

I'll take your word for it and references as well.

Then let's just stick with the original offer Atlanta has made for JJ.

I understand about the trade exception as a natural flow of the transaction but it seems almost everyone wants to point it out as well.

Concerning Pachulia, he is a player I have watched for awhile and I wanted him for the Suns. That's why I was looking for a loophole to get him.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If Belkin doesn't want to give up two picks then he needs to upgrade the player involved in the deal.

I would probably settle for Childress and a 2007 unprotected first rounder (2007 will be a much better draft than 2006). The trade exception would be a little smaller, but Childress is better than Diaw. If it would just end this I would take it.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'd give up one of the protected firsts for three unprotected second round picks in years the Suns get to select. Let's face it, the Hawks are not going to be good for a while and really early second round picks are better than late firsts because they aren't guanteed.

Second, I'd arrange to get Diaw as a separate transaction using the Voskulh trade exemption so the JJ exemption could be close to $6 million.