Thoughts on the Cardinals' RFAs and Draft Philosophy

[Mitch]

Ben Patrick just signed his one-year tender offer...if the team does not sign him to an extension, he will be free to become a UFA next year. I personally was hoping that the Cardinals would sign him to a three year deal. Patrick has progressed and I consider him a core player. But, do the Cardinals?

The concern I have is one that goes back several years. It seems the Cardinals wait too long to figure out what players they like well enough to re-sign to new deals prior to their contract years, thus avoiding having to bid for their own players in free agency, as they just tried to do with Karlos Dansby and Antrel Rolle.

In both Dansby's and Rolle's cases, the Cardinals were too late in recognizing them as core players. Dansby's work ethic was a concern, one that he even admitted to. Rolle was a concern because he was struggling at CB and he did not start to play consistently well at FS until just last year.

The Cardinals were smart to redo Anquan Boldin's and Darnell Dockett's deals. Had they not done so, it's quite possible that the Cardinals may not have had either one of them two years ago when they made it to the Super Bowl. Without them, would the Cardinals have made it to the Super Bowl?

The Cardinals now find themselves in a precarious situation regarding their current RFAs. Because each of them was tendered at a significant pay raise, it allows the players to enjoy a nice one-year pay hike while they look ahead to free agency next year.

When the Cardinals redid Boldin's and Dockett's contracts they were being underpaid in their rookie contracts (2nd and 3rd round rookie contracts respectively)...thus the allure of making millions more immediately was especially attractive.

In retrospect, the Cardinals should have gotten a deal done with Dansby (2nd rounder) when the time was right...but, once again, the Cardinals were not sure of Dansby as a core player.

Should the Cardinals be sure of Steve Breaston (5th rounder) as a core player? If they don't re-sign him to a multi-year deal, he may walk next year.

How about Deuce Lutui (2nd rounder)? Same thing.

How about Gabe Watson (4th rounder)?

How about Alan Branch (2nd rounder)? He has yet to be a starter. Are the Cardinals grooming him in a backup role to start somewhere else?

What about Lyle Sendlein?

What about Ben Patrick?

Now that the Cardinals have the money and it is an uncapped year, how about getting some long-term deals done with Breaston, Lutui, Sendlein, Patrick, Watson and Branch?

My gut feeling is that the Cardinals won't. They will draft another WR, most likely with one of their first 4 picks. They've already covered for Lutui's potential departure by signing G Rex Hadnot. Hadnot can also play center, and the team has been looking at drafting C J.D. Walton from Baylor. Will the team be drafting a TE to eventually replace Patrick? We are hearing that NT is high on the Cardinals' draft priorities, and they had DE Nick Eason in for a visit (Branch's eventual replacement?).

This is the old Steelers' method...replace soon to be UFAs with draft picks.

But doesn't that make the draft more pigeonholed in terms of addressing needs?

The question is...will the Cardinals find themselves trying to outbid other teams for their own players again?

If this off-season in an indication, they should be learning that in those scenarios it's too little too late.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

This year it seems that the FO has been much more pro active in FA and making trades.

But as you have pointed out there is still a lot of work to do with the players we have on our roster now. Hopefully with Whiz now having more input we can get some of our key players tied up with longer, more team friendly contracts. You can't give out contracts to every player that has one good season. Health and being consistent has to weigh heavy on decisions.

I would like to see Patrick be healthy for an entire year so we can see if he can step in and be the player we were all hoping he would be.

 

[Redrage]

When I look at the draft board it appears you would be able to address future needs by going BPA. A few points:

- It's very likely, that a good NT or DE will be available in round 1.

- There are numerous guys who can play the nickel in rounds 3 and 4.

- A Jacoby Ford or Dexter McCluster in the mid-rounds would add receiver depth and big play ability.

- The glut of big bodies in this draft will cause some good skill position players to drop too.

- Never forget other wild cards, for example, someone will take Tebow way to high.

The great thing about taking BPA is you often get prime players as other teams scramble to fill needs. That's how we ended up with Beanie last year. Hopefully we have a similar experience in 2010.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

In both Dansby's and Rolle's cases, the Cardinals were too late in recognizing them as core players.

Dansby's work ethic was a concern, one that he even admitted to. Rolle was a concern because he was struggling at CB and he did not start to play consistently well at FS until just last year.

Maybe in Antrel Rolle's case, but with Dansby that is simply not the case. Dansby was franchised for two years straight because the Cardinals realized he was a core player. They tried for three years to sign Karlos to a long term deal, but Dansby wanted the type of money that would paralyze this team's ability to compete financially.

Rolle ? MEH. I would not consider a the self proclaimed best safety on the Cardinals last year a core player. Not in the least. He is a failure of a first round pick cornerback, and I have NEVER been very impressed with Rolle at safety. I saw better play from a much slower and older Robert Griffith when he was here. All the physical ability in the world is not going to help you, when you can't understand where you SHOULD be. Finally, he is too small for safety and whether it be a hamstring, knee, or head injury he has missed a good chunk of time as well. I would have been furious if the Cardinals made Rolle the highest paid safety in the league and on this team. Not a core player, IMO. And yes, I understand the arrogance of that stance since the Cardinals felt he was.

Dansby is without a doubt, a loss to our core, but the Cardinals tried for three years to sign him. Rolle is going to be addition by subtraction, IMO.

Now that the Cardinals have the money and it is an uncapped year, how about getting some long-term deals done with Breaston, Lutui, Sendlein, Patrick, Watson and Branch?

Now this is a good question. The uncertainty of the 2011 season throws a wrench in all of this. Do the Cardinals want more flexibility dealing with the next two years ? Do the Cardinals want more stability dealing with the next two years ? Out of those players, who are "core players", who are players that want to stay in AZ and who are the players that want to hit free agency no matter what ?

Personally ? Personally, I would be at least give a preliminary feeling out process for Breaston, Patrick and Watson. See what they are thinking about in terms of what they are looking for. Locking up Watson or Breaston, and to a lesser extent Patrick would be areas that the Cardinals would be in some trouble if they let they player go with no back up plan involved.

And note, I am not completely sold on Patrick being a "key part" of the team. In reality, what has he really done ? A catch here, and there, and still working on his blocking ?

Lyle Sendlien is the best center that no other team in the league cares about. Leave him at a 1 year tender, and talk to him next year IF his extremely above average play continues. If he balks at our offer, then let him walk. He is not going to command big money, and furtermore if another team does give him big money, then he is replaceable. Core player ? No. No way.

Alan Branch ? He is a back up DE. His own stubborn arrogance has made a potential starting NFL NT into a back up DE. We the fans, have talked him up to more than he is. We all lost, all faith in the guy, and he makes a few plays, and suddenly he is a key player ? I think not. The organization has already paid a lot of money for very little production, and little potential for future production through Alan Branch. Alan Branch is not a core player, and is not even worthy of re-signing. When the Cardinals went after Nick Eason, that put up a red flag on Alan Branch, whom I believe could be a surprise cut this summer. Just remember, all he is, is a moderate backup DE behind Dockett and Campbell.

Deuce Lutui, has to prove himself this year. Lutui is far from dominant, and it is never a good sign that a free agent guard was signed, and not to mention the Cardinals will end up drafting a guard in the draft. You pay big money to guys like Steve Hutchinson, and Alan Faneca. Deuce Lutui has had a couple years in this system and still is inconsistent. I would be wary to extend Lutui this year. Not to mention I think Lutui is going to be one of those "free agency or bust" players, so I hope the Cardinals don't end up chasing him around ala Antrel Rolle.

Good stuff Mitch.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This year it seems that the FO has been much more pro active in FA and making trades.

Agreed. We the fans should not lose sight of this fact. For the Cardinals, this has been a ridiculous free agency period. We have signed a lot of players, again for the Cardinals, that were not on our roster last year.

I think the biggest void that the team has left is the WILB position besides that the Cardinals hit all the marks.

OL: Hadnot, Bridges
QB: Anderson
FS: Rhodes <-- potential improvement, at a great price, and for low cost (draft pick)
OLB: Porter, Baggs (yes, just a NFL reject, but they are trying to find a pass rush anyway they can)

Not to mention there has been some "behind the scenes" signings, like getting back Anthony Becht, bringing in some promising FB's, etc., etc. that is going to allow the Cardinals to be more flexible in the years to come, IMO.

If you look at ALL the signings, down to the camp fodder, you can see where Whiz is trying to improve depth. Something that any McGinnis suffered fan would understand the importance of. Look at the secondary, and the defensive line. There has been a lot of bodies brought in to compete for a few spots. It is all good, IMO.

Finally, realize there is really only about 20 spots on the 82 man offseason roster left. The Cardinals have just about put everything in position so they can concentrate on the draft, and hopefully have little to no holes left to fill after the draft.

Expect to see a lot of ILB and NT brought in through UDFA.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I would have been furious if the Cardinals made Rolle the highest paid safety in the league and on this team.

Me too. Definitely not worth that kind of money.

Rugby, thanks for the work you put in the above posts. Enjoyed reading them.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Alan Branch ? He is a back up DE. His own stubborn arrogance has made a potential starting NFL NT into a back up DE. We the fans, have talked him up to more than he is. We all lost, all faith in the guy, and he makes a few plays, and suddenly he is a key player ? I think not. The organization has already paid a lot of money for very little production, and little potential for future production through Alan Branch. Alan Branch is not a core player, and is not even worthy of re-signing. When the Cardinals went after Nick Eason, that put up a red flag on Alan Branch, whom I believe could be a surprise cut this summer. Just remember, all he is, is a moderate backup DE behind Dockett and Campbell.

Dude, your hatred for Branch is well documented and I get why it exists, but he was pretty damn good when he came into the games last year. He had 2 sacks in the Giants game and a few very key tackles down the stretch. The guy took his sweet ass time, but he has developed into a pretty damn good player IMO.

We have 2 of the top 5 3-4DE's in the league starting for us right now. Branch not getting more time at that position last year is very similar to how I refuse to write off Leinart because he couldn't beat out a PB HOFer in Kurt Warner for the starting QB job two years ago. I don't think there was really any chance that we were or are going to cut him. With Eason coming in you may have seen Branch play more NT, but he wasn't leaving the team IMHO.

 

[Cardiac]

Dude, your hatred for Branch is well documented and I get why it exists, but he was pretty damn good when he came into the games last year. He had 2 sacks in the Giants game and a few very key tackles down the stretch. The guy took his sweet ass time, but he has developed into a pretty damn good player IMO.

We have 2 of the top 5 3-4DE's in the league starting for us right now. Branch not getting more time at that position last year is very similar to how I refuse to write off Leinart because he couldn't beat out a PB HOFer in Kurt Warner for the starting QB job two years ago. I don't think there was really any chance that we were or are going to cut him. With Eason coming in you may have seen Branch play more NT, but he wasn't leaving the team IMHO.

cosign.

Maybe it's Iwebema that we are trying to upgrade.

 

[cardsfanmd]

cosign.

Maybe it's Iwebema that we are trying to upgrade.

I was kinda wondering that too.

 

[Buckybird]

Mitch good stuff. Scary times ahead though, for the fear of the unknown of who stays & who goes. This team could be gutted after this upcoming season of the majority of its talent & depth that went to Super Bowl 43, thus relying on 1st or 2nd year players. Ouch!!! The Cards definately need to extend Breaston & DD sometime this year & I would also think of getting Seindlein done too. Remember Larry Fitzgerald is also staring another big contract in the eyes too.

When is the last time the Cards have been agressive in extending more than 1-2 guys in an offseason? Sssssscary times!!!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Rugby equates the signing of Hadnot with Lutui's future.

How about Wells' future? He's on the last year of his deal, and, frankly, given our emphasis on better running, wouldn't be surprised if Hadnot is our left guard come September.

 

[Cardiac]

Rugby equates the signing of Hadnot with Lutui's future.

How about Well's future? He's on the last year of his deal, and, frankly, given our emphasis on better running, wouldn't be surprised if Hadnot is our left guard come September.

I was thinking the same thing. Wells better have a great offseason to hold onto his starting position.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Rugby equates the signing of Hadnot with Lutui's future.

How about Well's future? He's on the last year of his deal, and, frankly, given our emphasis on better running, wouldn't be surprised if Hadnot is our left guard come September.

I was thinking that too. Lutui looked much better than Wells last year IMO, but what do I know.

 

[kerouac9]

Ben Patrick should probably start more than 10 games in a season before the Cards start considering him a core player.

 

[WildBB]

Ben Patrick just signed his one-year tender offer...if the team does not sign him to an extension, he will be free to become a UFA next year. I personally was hoping that the Cardinals would sign him to a three year deal. Patrick has progressed and I consider him a core player. But, do the Cardinals?

The concern I have is one that goes back several years. It seems the Cardinals wait too long to figure out what players they like well enough to re-sign to new deals prior to their contract years, thus avoiding having to bid for their own players in free agency, as they just tried to do with Karlos Dansby and Antrel Rolle.

Maybe it has A LOT to do with the players wanting to maximize their contracts hitting the open market. Obviously the Cardinals are not going to overpay players when they can get them on the cheap. It's just the buisness end of the pro game.
They do try and extend the stars, such as they did with Boldin (with mixed results), but I wouldn't consider Patrick in the same light as a "core keeper".

 

[Mitch]

The conundrum the Cardinals face and have been facing is that by the time the young players have played three years in the system, the Cardinals have to be able to determine if they are core or not...as they did with Boldin and Dockett. For young players and the organization that is a tight window...one compounded by the fact that some of the young players have not been brought around quickly and haven't as yet settled into starting roles.

Take a look, for example, at the Calvin Pace situation. He got off to a slow start, wasn't shown much confidence by the coaches, had the freak accident during the bye week, etc., but occasionally showed flashes of being a pretty good pass rusher and tackler on the edge. Then the team switches to the 3-4, Chike Okeafor gets hurt, Pace gets his chance in a system that fit his skills and voila! Suddenly he starts showing why the Cardinals picked him in the first round. Yet, alas, this was just in time for him to hit free agency and he bolted town.

The switch to the 3-4 also benefitted DE Antonio Smith...as he didn't start playing up to his potential until he was used in his role. Again, the development was late, and again, just in time for him to cash in on free agency. Fortunately the Cardinals saw this one coming and drafted Calais Campbell.

Now let's take a close look at the RFAs the Cardinals stand to lose in similar fashion if they don't get these players signed to new contracts:

Gabe Watson, NT. Was another benefitter of the switch to the 3-4...and was showing promise as the starting NT when he blew out his kneecap weightlifting. He's struggled to get back to where he was prior to the injury, but last year he started showing marked progress. If that progress contuinues this year, Watson should be a solid player at NT. The question is, do the Cardinals have faith in Watson moving forward? If so, it could help the team address other areas early in this draft. if not, it makes drafting a NT one of the top priorities. We saw the action that UFA NTs get...so Watson may be a hot commodity next year.

Alan Branch, DE/NT. Talk about slow starts, and here's a guy the team spent a 4th round draft pick on in Whiz's first draft in order to move up to take him at #33. At this time last year, the debate was whether to cut him, as there had been no sense that "the light had gone on." However, suddenly, perhaps inspired by the Cardinals' magical Super Bowl run the previous year, Branch was seeing the light. He trained hard, got his weight down, and was a dynamic rotation player in some games. Better yet, he was particularly good at making plays as one of the goal-line defense NTs. If he could show great promise as a goal-line "A" gap NT (where the Cardinals play their NTs in the base 3-4 anyway), why can't he be a major factor at NT? You used the #33 pick four years ago to address this need. You didn't use the #33 pick and give up a 4th rounder to have him be a backup DE. At 6-5, 338, Branch is a load, and a cause to give opponents pause. The questions are: (1) do the Cardinals want him beyond this year? (2) can they expect him to start at NT even though Branch has said he prefers DE?

Here the Cardinals have TWO high draft picks Branch (2nd) and Watson (4th) and they should be looking to draft a NT as one of their priorities this year?

It's scenarios like this one that sets a team backward in the short and long run. You have to cash in on your high draft picks and you have to find a way to keep them beyond their rookie contracts...or essentially they are leaving town just when they are heading in to their prime years.

Steve Breaston, WR. The team has just traded Anquan Boldin because Breaston has shown that he is a productive #2 WR. Is this his last year in Arizona? It probably is if you don't sign him to deal now, that is unless you plan to franchise tag him. Do you tag a #2 WR and pay him #1 money?

Deuce Lutui, G. A case can be made that he was our best offensive lineman last year. He incurred fewer penalties and diplayed a rugged, tenacious style of play...which happened to coincide with a vast improvement in the running game. You have a coach in Pete Carroll who would be licking his chops to get his hands on this ex-Trojan. Are you going to let that happen? If you don't sign him this year, you either tag him or outbid the other suitors for him next year.

Lyle Sendlein, C. Has made solid improvement each year. Has an excellent work ethic, plays hurt, plays smart and last year was showing greater strength and much improved feet. Beyond him there is not much depth.

Ben Patrick, TE. Down the stretch last year he was playing his best football as a Cardinal. He has shown significant improvement as a blocker, as he was starting to deliver not just good blocks, but punishing blocks. Plus, he is a legitmate pass catcher and red-zone threat, who because of the 4 WRs has been under-utilized in that role. This year he may set career highs in catches, yards and TDs. Again there is not much behind him. Becht is getting older, Spach is not nearly as talented and Byrd is more one-dimensional. Are the Cardinals going to have to outbid the market (and likely Bill Billichick) for him next year? heck, even the Falcoms tried to pry him away from the Cardinals' PS when he was a rookie. Fortunately, the Cardinals promoted him and held onto him.

What we need to realize, even based on PS moves teams have made taking Cardinal players, other teams in the league are enamored with our young talent. And, let's not forget, all these players Breaston, Branch, Watson, Lutui, Sendlein and Patrick have major playoff experience (6 games the last two years) under their belts, including Super Bowl experience. The Cardinals need to realize these players helped them get to the playoffs and the Super Bowl and that if any team should continue to profit from that experience it is the Cardinals themselves.

 

[Buckybird]

The conundrum the Cardinals face and have been facing is that by the time the young players have played three years in the system, the Cardinals have to be able to determine if they are core or not...as they did with Boldin and Dockett. For young players and the organization that is a tight window...one compounded by the fact that some of the young players have not been brought around quickly and haven't as yet settled into starting roles.

Take a look, for example, at the Calvin Pace situation. He got off to a slow start, wasn't shown much confidence by the coaches, had the freak accident during the bye week, etc., but occasionally showed flashes of being a pretty good pass rusher and tackler on the edge. Then the team switches to the 3-4, Chike Okeafor gets hurt, Pace gets his chance in a system that fit his skills and voila! Suddenly he starts showing why the Cardinals picked him in the first round. Yet, alas, this was just in time for him to hit free agency and he bolted town.

The switch to the 3-4 also benefitted DE Antonio Smith...as he didn't start playing up to his potential until he was used in his role. Again, the development was late, and again, just in time for him to cash in on free agency. Fortunately the Cardinals saw this one coming and drafted Calais Campbell.

Now let's take a close look at the RFAs the Cardinals stand to lose in similar fashion if they don't get these players signed to new contracts:

Gabe Watson, NT. Was another benefitter of the switch to the 3-4...and was showing promise as the starting NT when he blew out his kneecap weightlifting. He's struggled to get back to where he was prior to the injury, but last year he started showing marked progress. If that progress contuinues this year, Watson should be a solid player at NT. The question is, do the Cardinals have faith in Watson moving forward? If so, it could help the team address other areas early in this draft. if not, it makes drafting a NT one of the top priorities. We saw the action that UFA NTs get...so Watson may be a hot commodity next year.

Alan Branch, DE/NT. Talk about slow starts, and here's a guy the team spent a 4th round draft pick on in Whiz's first draft in order to move up to take him at #33. At this time last year, the debate was whether to cut him, as there had been no sense that "the light had gone on." However, suddenly, perhaps inspired by the Cardinals' magical Super Bowl run the previous year, Branch was seeing the light. He trained hard, got his weight down, and was a dynamic rotation player in some games. Better yet, he was particularly good at making plays as one of the goal-line defense NTs. If he could show great promise as a goal-line "A" gap NT (where the Cardinals play their NTs in the base 3-4 anyway), why can't he be a major factor at NT? You used the #33 pick four years ago to address this need. You didn't use the #33 pick and give up a 4th rounder to have him be a backup DE. At 6-5, 338, Branch is a load, and a cause to give opponents pause. The questions are: (1) do the Cardinals want him beyond this year? (2) can they expect him to start at NT even though Branch has said he prefers DE?

Here the Cardinals have TWO high draft picks Branch (2nd) and Watson (4th) and they should be looking to draft a NT as one of their priorities this year?

It's scenarios like this one that sets a team backward in the short and long run. You have to cash in on your high draft picks and you have to find a way to keep them beyond their rookie contracts...or essentially they are leaving town just when they are heading in to their prime years.

Steve Breaston, WR. The team has just traded Anquan Boldin because Breaston has shown that he is a productive #2 WR. Is this his last year in Arizona? It probably is if you don't sign him to deal now, that is unless you plan to franchise tag him. Do you tag a #2 WR and pay him #1 money?

Deuce Lutui, G. A case can be made that he was our best offensive lineman last year. He incurred fewer penalties and diplayed a rugged, tenacious style of play...which happened to coincide with a vast improvement in the running game. You have a coach in Pete Carroll who would be licking his chops to get his hands on this ex-Trojan. Are you going to let that happen? If you don't sign him this year, you either tag him or outbid the other suitors for him next year.

Lyle Sendlein, C. Has made solid improvement each year. Has an excellent work ethic, plays hurt, plays smart and last year was showing greater strength and much improved feet. Beyond him there is not much depth.

Ben Patrick, TE. Down the stretch last year he was playing his best football as a Cardinal. He has shown significant improvement as a blocker, as he was starting to deliver not just good blocks, but punishing blocks. Plus, he is a legitmate pass catcher and red-zone threat, who because of the 4 WRs has been under-utilized in that role. This year he may set career highs in catches, yards and TDs. Again there is not much behind him. Becht is getting older, Spach is not nearly as talented and Byrd is more one-dimensional. Are the Cardinals going to have to outbid the market (and likely Bill Billichick) for him next year? heck, even the Falcoms tried to pry him away from the Cardinals' PS when he was a rookie. Fortunately, the Cardinals promoted him and held onto him.

What we need to realize, even based on PS moves teams have made taking Cardinal players, other teams in the league are enamored with our young talent. And, let's not forget, all these players Breaston, Branch, Watson, Lutui, Sendlein and Patrick have major playoff experience (6 games the last two years) under their belts, including Super Bowl experience. The Cardinals need to realize these players helped them get to the playoffs and the Super Bowl and that if any team should continue to profit from that experience it is the Cardinals themselves.

As I said Mitch,Scary...and also flirting with fire!!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Mitch there are two flaws to your premise of this thread.

#1 - You can't sign EVERYBODY that shows potential on your team. You have to make decisions and sometimes it blows up in your face (Dansby) and sometimes you hit it out of the park (Boldin/Dockett). Its revisonist history for most on the board at this point but I absolutely understand why the Cardinals didn't lock up Dansby early on. He didn't play hurt, didn't play hard, and wasn't a leader on the defense back in 2006/2007.

Boldin and Dockett were obvious cases for extensions. Dansby and Rolle were not. You hit some you lose some. But the definition of a "core" is the center of the team. You can only afford to play 4-5 players near the top of their position and the rest have to be filled in with young players and mid level vets.

I would argue Dansby and certainly Rolle are not the "core" of the team, expecially when you have guys like Dockett, Fitz, Beanie, DRC, Calais, and (hopefully) Matt up for extensions who potentially are.

#2 and even more importantly, it take two to sign a contract. I think you are assuming that many of these guys are going to take reasonable deals (or even under market deals) to get some money upfront. Don't you think a guy like Patrick or Watson are counting on having good seasons and hit FA. Its not always the Cardinals who are the sole decision makers in these types of situations.

 

[WildBB]

Gabe Watson, NT. Was another benefitter of the switch to the 3-4...and was showing promise as the starting NT when he blew out his kneecap weightlifting. He's struggled to get back to where he was prior to the injury, but last year he started showing marked progress. If that progress contuinues this year, Watson should be a solid player at NT. The question is, do the Cardinals have faith in Watson moving forward? If so, it could help the team address other areas early in this draft. if not, it makes drafting a NT one of the top priorities. We saw the action that UFA NTs get...so Watson may be a hot commodity next year.

Here again is a player that shouldn't have any excuses to perform to expectations from two yrs. ago from this point forward. Extend him if he's showing he means business. By all means.

Alan Branch, DE/NT. Talk about slow starts, and here's a guy the team spent a 4th round draft pick on in Whiz's first draft in order to move up to take him at #33. At this time last year, the debate was whether to cut him, as there had been no sense that "the light had gone on." However, suddenly, perhaps inspired by the Cardinals' magical Super Bowl run the previous year, Branch was seeing the light. He trained hard, got his weight down, and was a dynamic rotation player in some games. Better yet, he was particularly good at making plays as one of the goal-line defense NTs. If he could show great promise as a goal-line "A" gap NT (where the Cardinals play their NTs in the base 3-4 anyway), why can't he be a major factor at NT? You used the #33 pick four years ago to address this need. You didn't use the #33 pick and give up a 4th rounder to have him be a backup DE. At 6-5, 338, Branch is a load, and a cause to give opponents pause. The questions are: (1) do the Cardinals want him beyond this year? (2) can they expect him to start at NT even though Branch has said he prefers DE?

This is a harder call. If he wants to be a starter it's going to almost have to be as a NT. He won't resign unless he's given starter pay, which he isn't as a DE. So how do you resign him? Somewhere in between I guess. And is he willing to accept that for the security. Definately worth exploring here.
BUT it should be pointed out that he should be wanting to start and the only place that may be is at NT and that he needs to show some flash there in TC and the pre-season if he wants a $$$ deal. So far it's been mixed results pretty much - there shouldn't be anything holding him back at this point however!!

[/QUOTE]

 

[Catfish]

I wouldn't be so quick to discount Lutui either Mitch------One thing that no one seems to remember, is that he considers Matt's well being to be HIS personal responsibility-----just like he did when he was Matt's blind side tackle at SC. He also is a longtime Mesa resident, who grew up here, and has family ties here in the valley. Becasue this will be Matt's first year to be a 'starter', and to be with a proven first unit, I would think that Lutui's responsibility ethic would kick in again, just like it did when the two were team-mates at SC. This could be something that both of them have been waiting and longing for, and it just might be one of those wierd comfort factors that makes for great confidence in their abilities to do things together. I would look closely at this as a factor this year, and if it is working early, then I would tend to want to shore up both contracts early on this season, even though I know that the FO doesn't like to do contracts during the playing season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Dude, your hatred for Branch is well documented .

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Cardiac]

This does beg the question who are our core players?

Arizona Finest has a good start to the list. Adub should be included. How many core players can a team have/afford?

Mitch is correct that we have a ton of quality players heading towards FA next year. I would think part of the problem is no one knows what the collective bargaining will bring us. Lock Out. Changes in CAP monies and etc.

Are any teams signing players to long term contracts beyond those that were tagged and the UFA's signings?

I doubt many teams are doing long term extensions on a vast majority of their own RFA's.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This does beg the question who are our core players?

Arizona Finest has a good start to the list. Adub should be included. How many core players can a team have/afford?

Agreed of course but in my post I was discussing players that maybe up for extensions. Wilson doesn't qualify with his deal last season.

One thing that throws a wrench into this is the upcoming lockout and subsequent changes in the CBA after it. Who knows? The whole restricted FA idea could be out the door, as well the salary cap implications and revenue sharing could be completely different.

That could be part of why the Cardinals are being cautious in locking guys up who aren't (again) core players.

 

[kerouac9]

The idea is that you lock up players after their second season and/or in the middle of their third. This isn't so that you can place them among the highest paid players at their position (neither Boldin nor Dockett were when they were extended), but so that you can lock up valueable players at a discount, because those mid-round picks are going to get security in exchange for a salary possibly less than they'd get on the open market.

Lutui and Breaston are guys who will probably get contracts that place them among the top half of players at their position in the league. The Cards shouldn't balk at giving Breaston the same contract that Anquan Boldin was playing under the last five seasons. You can also feel good extending Gabe Watson right now to a contract in the ballpark of $2-$3.5 million per season. That's what Fred Robbins got from the Rams, and--right now--Gabe Watson is about an equivalent player. If Watson becomes a force at the NT position (which isn't likely but I suppose is possible), then they'll be offering $5 million plus per season or using the Franchise tag on him (which will probably cost somewhere in the ballpark of $7.5 million for one year).

Mitch's comments about Alan Branch are unsupported by evidence. He was never in the A-Gap in goal line situations. Gabe Watson was--Branch was on one side, Robinson on the other. Branch may turn out to be a good player as a starter. He's certainly a good rotational player right now. I wouldn't mind extending him to the same $2 to $4 million contract that I'd offer Branch. That's great value for DL with productive playing time in the NFL.

Ben Patrick is imminently replaceable. If Bill Belicheck wanted him, I'd let him go, since Belicheck has been unable to find a tight end he's wanted to stick with in the last decade. If Patrick wants a 5 year, $12 million contract with $4 million guaranteed, then I'd sign him to that. But he's not worth much more than that.

The "Steeler Way" isn't to just let pending free agents leave and replace them with draft picks. The "Steeler Way" is that you identify those players who are valuable to your team and re-sign them, and those players who will demand/are demanding contracts above their value to the team will walk. I think that Lutui and Breaston have proved their value and should get competitive contracts (Lutui probably starts with the 4-year, $18.15 million extension that Winston Justice signed with Philly this last November).