Thoughts on Warner's Retirement, National Perceptions and Personnel Decisions

Mitch

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1. It's likely that Warner intended all along to retire after this year. Kudos to all of you who thought this from the get-go. When Warner said last year that he intended to play the two years of his contract, I believed him.

Ideally, Warner would have liked to retire after last year's Super Bowl. Apparently he even mulled retiring after the Boldin hit in NY.

So what happened?

If you recall, after Warner announced after the Super Bowl that he was going to ponder his retirement, within a day or so Warner's agent, Mark Bartelstein was telling the media that his client had no intention of retiring and was expecting to sign a new contract. Did any of you find the timing of these announcements rather curious?

What I believed happened is that Bartelstein reminded Warner that he just took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl making a paltry $5M. He also likely reminded Warner that the Cardinals were not interested in engaging in contract talks prior to that season because Matt Leinart was expected to be the starter---even though Warner led the team to a 5-3 record down the stretch scoring what was---for the Cardinals---a whopping 27 points per game.

Bartelstein told Warner that he deserved to be handsomely rewarded for his accomplishments. Ideally that compensation should come from the Cardinals, and that the Cardinals, fresh off an unprecedented Super Bowl berth, should be willing to pony up the big bucks.

When negotiations with the Cardinals were moving slowly, Bartelstein put the hustle on the 49ers and vice versa. Even the media could see through this less than opaque veil...there was no way Warner was a fit in SF and he'd be leaving behind the best trio of WRs in the NFL.

And...if Warner was to sign with the 49ers, he not only would have to move his family, he would have to try to assimilate into a new system throwing to new WRs and---and this is the catch---how could he justify doing all this for one year, especially if the 49ers signed him to a 2-3 year contract.

With the Cardinals Warner could easily retire after one year, as, alas, he is apparently going to do tomorrow.

2. The amazing thing is, and I think Warner even surprised himself a little, his performances this year were often nothing short of spectacular, save ironically two dud performances versus the 49ers and a rough day versus Carolina.

Warner's performance versus Green Bay was, in my opinion, the best game he ever played. He was so brilliant in that game---in a game where he and everyone else knew he virtually had to find a way to score a TD on every possible possesssion. And he dang near did. 5 TDs throws and 4 incompletions? Unreal. Stratospheric.

3. The irony is that Warner's last playoff game was strangely similar to his very first...both were played at the Super Dome versus the Saints and both were lopsided affairs that had mostly to do with Warner's defense getting manhandled..

Another small irony is that next year would have been Warner's 13th in the NFL...his number. Could the stars have been aligned for a magical ride into the sunset following his 13th year? Now it appears no one will ever know. But, the way Warner was playing this year, his magic is alive and well. Curious that he said that "a player doesn't want to leave too soon." Well, there was no real dropoff in Warner's play this season. In fact, one could argue that his game is still evolving, as this year he was far more decisive than ever before.

4. Could Warner get antsy and pull a Brett Favre and show up two weeks into training camp? For one more ride, I think the Cardinals should even suggest it. Warner knows the system so well, give him three weeks to get his timing and have him come in fresh. Why not? Sure, I know, that doesn't seem like something Warner would do...for he's 100% committed or nothing at all. But, hey, for one last chance at a ring?

5. The problem for the Cardinals and Ken Whisenhunt now is how they are going to battle the perceptions---for right or for wrong---that Warner was the driving force behind the team's success. Heck, already the pundits are hailing the 49ers as the new favorite in the NFC West.

Whiz is a master at this type of motivation...but, the reality is he and the team cannot have a significant dropoff at QB if they are going to three-peat. If there is a dropoff in the team's performance, the perceptions will linger.

6. I was thinking the other day, had the Bidwills not saddled Whiz with Clancy Pendergast, and Whiz was able to take a Dick LeBeau disciple with him to Arizona to be the DC, would the Cardinals have won the Super Bowl?

7. What the Cardinals need on defense is a breath of fresh air. It's not that Bill Davis didn't make some progress. He did---although one could also argue that the Cardinals' schedule was a little easier this year. But, to think that the Cardinals played such atrocious pass defense with 3 Pro Bowlers in their secondary for two straight games, really makes you question not only Davis, but the whole system in general.

Good defense is not just about the system it's about honing the right mentality. Look at how imposing the Jets were on defense this year---they were nowhere near as imposing last year. But, Rex Ryan gave those players attitude and put the fun back in the game for them.

This is what the Cardinals need...someone who can get the players to play attack defense and play with attitude.

The soft defense we saw in the playoffs was embarrasing.

After the Jets beat the Chargers, Rex Ryan was apologizing to the Jets' fans for his defense getting "soft" on the Chargers' last late TD. Now, that's the kind of attitude the coach and his players need.

8. The Cardinal will have tens of millions of dollars in which to bolster their roster, which certainly makes things interesting.

Look at these figures from last year's cap that won't be on this year's:

Warner ($11.5M)
Dansby ($9.7M)
Gandy ($5.8M)
Okeafor ($5.4M)
McFadden ($5.0M)*
Berry ($1.3M)
Robinson ($1.1M)

That's a total of $40M.

Now, Joe makes a good point about other players' bonusues cutting into this number...but this year that dent shouldn't be too much at all.

*There's no way the Cardinals are going to retain BMF. His $5M salary for this year---none of it is guaranteed---the Cardinals paid him his $5M guaranteed last year as his first year salary.

The regrettable thing is, McFadden was paid more than Darnell Dockett this past year.

Dockett's case for a new contract is legit. The Cardinals in this situation, need to act.

9. As for the defense, it will be interesting to see if the Cardinals make a run at NTs Casey Hampton or Vince Woolfork. Both might be franchise-tagged, but it's possible neither of them will.

I was also wondering what kind of a package the Cardinals could offer the Broncos for OLB Elvis Dumervil. It may take Boldin and a draft pick...but, hey, Dumervil would be instant energy for this defense.

Two veterans the Cardinals might want to consider, both of whom should be very affordable are LB Larry Foote and CB Ken Lucas. Foote registered 99 tackles with the Lions last year and would be good insurance in case Gerald Hayes' back continues to be an issue. And, Lucas could be a veteran mentor for DRC and Greg Toler, while contributing to the defense at CB and in nickel and dime packages.

10. My favorite Kurt Warner memory...I think it's the pass to Fitz with 2:37 left in the Super Bowl. I don't think I have ever been so happy as a Cardinal fan as I was at that moment.

What is your favorite Warner memory?

Let's ALL say a prayer tonight to ask God to intercept Warner's retirement pass and inspire him to play one more year. One more magical ride #13. You can do it!



 

kerouac9

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Why would the Denver Broncos want Anquan Boldin? Why in the world would they give up their best player for Anquan Boldin? I don't think they'd trade Dumervil at his current salary for Anquan Boldin and the 26th pick in the draft.

Larry Foote is toast. Clark Haggans thinks that Larry Foote is over the hill.
 

Pariah

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If the Broncos give up Dummerville there will be an angry mob with pitchforks and torches calling for McDaniels' head.

But I'll tell ya, I hope I lose the $90M ASFN Bucks I bet on Warner retiring tomorrow.
 

Zeno

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3. The irony is that Warner's last playoff game was strangely similar to his very first...both were played at the Super Dome versus the Saints and both were lopsided affairs that had mostly to do with Warner's defense getting manhandled..

Warners first career playoff game was in St Louis and he threw for 5 TD passes.
 
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7. What the Cardinals need on defense is a breath of fresh air. It's not that Bill Davis didn't make some progress. He did---although one could also argue that the Cardinals' schedule was a little easier this year. But, to think that the Cardinals played such atrocious pass defense with 3 Pro Bowlers in their secondary for two straight games, really makes you question not only Davis, but the whole system in general.
Thing is, they didn't! As you know, DRC and Rolle went down and out in the first quarter of the game vs. New Orleans. Along with Hayes absence that's three defensive starters out of the game.

Even with those players I don't think the final outcome would have changed on that day, but the score would have been much closer.
 

RugbyMuffin

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IMO.

Like it or not Pendergasts defense beat the Falcons and the Panthers. Would Davis get past those two teams ? Who knows.

Ken Lucas <<< McFadden.

There is no reason to get rid of McFadden. None. Let him compete with Toler for the starting CB job. If he loses, put him at CB.

Larry Foote >>>> Monte Beisel

Would love to see Foote in AZ. He is over the hill without a doubt, but knows the system, and would be a good depth guy.

Until the man tells us he is retiring I am not going to say too much about this or that.

My favorite Warner memory to date. Playing, one-armed, in Washington, and doing that back handed, hand off. Frickin' nut job that Warner is.

If Warner is retiring I will think back what his eyes looked like at that moment in his career and what his eye looked like this season.

Eventhough he played this season, his eyes when he was playing one armed, where eyes of a mad man. That was my favorite season to watch him play.
 
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Mitch

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Thing is, they didn't! As you know, DRC and Rolle went down and out in the first quarter of the game vs. New Orleans. Along with Hayes absence that's three defensive starters out of the game.

Even with those players I don't think the final outcome would have changed on that day, but the score would have been much closer.

They all started the Packers game and played throughout.

They all started the Saints' game...and before they got hurt, they were playing soft zones and getting torched. The only player I could see cover a Saints' WR all game was Greg Toler.

Even the FOX crew was saying the Cardinals' defense should go all out, what do they have to lose? And this was on their first and second series where they basically let the Saints have whatever they wanted.

Were we watching the same games? Seriously.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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IMO.

Like it or not Pendergasts defense beat the Falcons and the Panthers. Would Davis get past those two teams ? Who knows.

Ken Lucas <<< McFadden.

There is no reason to get rid of McFadden. None. Let him compete with Toler for the starting CB job. If he loses, put him at CB.

Larry Foote >>>> Monte Beisel

Would love to see Foote in AZ. He is over the hill without a doubt, but knows the system, and would be a good depth guy.

Until the man tells us he is retiring I am not going to say too much about this or that.

My favorite Warner memory to date. Playing, one-armed, in Washington, and doing that back handed, hand off. Frickin' nut job that Warner is.

If Warner is retiring I will think back what his eyes looked like at that moment in his career and what his eye looked like this season.

Eventhough he played this season, his eyes when he was playing one armed, where eyes of a mad man. That was my favorite season to watch him play.

Ken Lucas is much better, IMO, than BMF. Not even close. Let's just agree to disagree. Remember the job he did on Fitz a couple of years back while in Carolina?
 
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Were we watching the same games? Seriously.
Apparently not if you want to imply:
...that the Cardinals played such atrocious pass defense with 3 Pro Bowlers in their secondary for two straight games...
For the record, I think there is merit in your point (original 7. ), if I understand your point. But if you are going to write full page reproofs of the Cardinals season/performances I think it's fair to expect factual accuracy.

Edit: You know as well as I, that having those starters out had an impact in defensive strategy from that point onward. By the way, Hayes missed the entire game in New Orleans and Rolle went out on the Saints second offensive series.
 
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ASUCHRIS

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Good stuff as usual Mitch, I think many around here will miss Warner more than they think they will. It's a real shame he won't give it one more shot, I may never see a better Cards qb in my lifetime.
 

joeshmo

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Ken Lucas is much better, IMO, than BMF. Not even close. Let's just agree to disagree. Remember the job he did on Fitz a couple of years back while in Carolina?

You are going to have to remind us what game that was because I went back all the way to the 2005 season and Fitz has had his way with any team with Lucas in their secondary. You are going to have to expand on this one.

2005 - 9 catches over 100 yards and 1 TD.
2007 - 6 catches 100 yards, average of over 16.
2008 - 7 catches over 100 yards again over 16 per catch.
2008 Playoffs - Do I even need to mention how good Fitz played.
Against Seattle in 2009 - 20 catches, 175 yards and 2 TD's.

This year Ken Lucas allowed 70% of the passes thrown his way to be caught and allowed a 118 QB rating to his man. McFadden - 58% and rating of 87. Now that is not even close.
 
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Mitch

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Good stuff as usual Mitch, I think many around here will miss Warner more than they think they will. It's a real shame he won't give it one more shot, I may never see a better Cards qb in my lifetime.

You are reading my mind, Chris. Let's hang tight, this could be a tough stretch.
 

ajcardfan

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You are going to have to remind us what game that was because I went back all the way to the 2005 season and Fitz has had his way with any team with Lucas in their secondary. You are going to have to expand on this one.

2005 - 9 catches over 100 yards and 1 TD.
2007 - 6 catches 100 yards, average of over 16.
2008 - 7 catches over 100 yards again over 16 per catch.
2008 Playoffs - Do I even need to mention how good Fitz played.
Against Seattle in 2009 - 20 catches, 175 yards and 2 TD's.

This year Ken Lucas allowed 70% of the passes thrown his way to be caught and allowed a 118 QB rating to his man. McFadden - 58% and rating of 87. Now that is not even close.


Lucas has been overrated from the time he was drafted IMO.
 

joeshmo

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Note that I do like the Foote idea. But Foote isnt a SILB who would backup Hayes. Foote is without a doubt a WILB, and that what he played while at Pitt.

Anyways I like him as a 1 year stopgap to replace Dansby and let a supposed Rookie sit for a half a year to a year like we do with all of our rookies.

Another NT name to bring up if not franchise or extended is Ryan Pickett who I think I like more then Hampton and Wilfork because he is younger then Hampton and way cheaper then Wilfork. I think Picket is a more realistic thought at this point in time.
 

Osbern61

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Favorite Warner moment for me was the game winning drive vs Philly in the NFC championship. After surrendering 19 unanswered points and the lead, I thought they were dead on the water, but Kurt responded in a big way.
 

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Okay, as usual, it's up to me to give you folks the skinny on what is really going on here. :D

Warner only truly started considering calling it quits after this season after the concussion.

It was what he witnessed occur towards himself and Farve in the last couple of regular season games and the playoffs that made his decision for him. I refer to defensive players going for his head, and in Viking's games for Farves's head.

We all saw it. We all felt the danger. And certainly Brenda Warner did as well.

That's my take on the issue.
 

Buckybird

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Favorite Warner moment for me was the game winning drive vs Philly in the NFC championship. After surrendering 19 unanswered points and the lead, I thought they were dead on the water, but Kurt responded in a big way.

yep.

Scoring that TD plus the 2pointer was huge. People tend to forget how close the Iggles were to FG range. That drive was clutch, Warner at his best. It also enabled us Cards fans to enjoy something never accomplished before & possibly never again...a Super Bowl Berth!!!

Ive never cried like that day until 2:37 of the Super Bowl
 

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Cards_Campos

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Okay, as usual, it's up to me to give you folks the skinny on what is really going on here. :D

Warner only truly started considering calling it quits after this season after the concussion.

It was what he witnessed occur towards himself and Farve in the last couple of regular season games and the playoffs that made his decision for him. I refer to defensive players going for his head, and in Viking's games for Farves's head.

We all saw it. We all felt the danger. And certainly Brenda Warner did as well.

That's my take on the issue.


I tend to agree. The Saints did get away with alot of crap IMO. The hits and head hunting almost made the game not fun for either of them. And the refs didnt help out. Warner said he complained 3 or 4 times about it..so did Favre. But I feel the NFL wanted the Saints in the Super Bowl...because of KAtrina.
 

Buckybird

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Okay, as usual, it's up to me to give you folks the skinny on what is really going on here. :D

Warner only truly started considering calling it quits after this season after the concussion.

It was what he witnessed occur towards himself and Farve in the last couple of regular season games and the playoffs that made his decision for him. I refer to defensive players going for his head, and in Viking's games for Farves's head.

We all saw it. We all felt the danger. And certainly Brenda Warner did as well.

That's my take on the issue.

probably right, but I think Warner knew after he walked off the field in New Orleans
 

Buckybird

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Its a sad day in Cardinal land 2day, but I understand his decision. Thanks for the memories #13, you're were a great player & even better person. I feel like I lost a family member today.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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Ken Lucas is much better, IMO, than BMF. Not even close. Let's just agree to disagree. Remember the job he did on Fitz a couple of years back while in Carolina?

In the playoffs he didn't do to well tho.
 

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