Three Cardinals Mocks

[Doug]

Interesting points here. I really don't think that outside of Terrance Cody there is a guy who is going to step in next year and play solid NT. You just don't usually see that happening. Even Vince Wilfork played a year behind Ted Washington in New England. Whomever comes in is going to play in sub packages--maybe 20% of total plays--behind Gabe Watson and Alan Branch coming into the middle on passing downs. I don't like Cam Thomas because he wasn't a standout at North Carolina, and I'm not sure he's going to dominate at this level. I don't like him until the 3rd round. But I agree with you that fans are really underestimating the amount that the team is likely focused on the NT position. It's the only position with a gaping hole on the roster, and the team made zero effort to fill that hole through free agency.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cards draft Williams or Cody in the first round.

I think that Hayes' replacement is already on the roster in Clark Haggans. Both are liabilities in coverage, but Haggans can be more effective against the run if there's anyone on the roster to play SOLB. One thing that'd be nice about drafting Hughes is that he would add pass rush ability to the SOLB position and depth to the SILB position because it may make Hayes a backup, or at least give him competition.

Casey Hampton started from the get go for the Steelers at NT,and I think he was "D" rookie of the year.I forget.It was the year of the DT draft.

Seymour taken first,rams wasted two top 10 picks on Damiene Lewis out of Miami (who was just signed by the Pats as a FA from the Vikes.Never been much special at all & Ryan Pickett from OSU with the 10th pick.Now paying dividends at NT for the Packers but never did anything as a ram.

That year was flooded with DT's.Two from Texas & Two from Tennessee.Casey Hampton & Shaun Rogers from Texas and Haynesworth & John Henderson from Tennessee and In the second round Kris Jenkins was the earliest STUD DT to show up a year later besides Casey Hampton as a Super STUD NT as a rookie for the Steelers.
That same draft a pretty good LB from Miami in Morgan was drafted.The rams wanted Morgan but took the two worse DT's of all mentioned as both soon started getting and staying injured and NEVER helped them on defense.Shame the rams ran a 4-3 and blew taking Hampton as a NT.
Seymour got his rings and Haynesworth got the mega payday.

I don't see any DT worth taking this year in the first that will still be around when we pick.After the rams wasted more first round DT picks on Jimmy Kennedy from Penn State and Carriker who has been a bust along with Howie Longs kid.They are probably scared to take Suh and see him bust.(WHICH HE WON'T).The Lions and Bucs will reap the top 2 DT's this year.
I'm not sure the rams have enough talent to help Sam Brittleford survive long enough taking years of hits.
I think Williams will be gone when we pick and maybe even Odrick too may surprise as he's rising the late fasttrack.Its gonna be interesting.

 

[Mitch]

Casey Hampton started from the get go for the Steelers at NT,and I think he was "D" rookie of the year.I forget.It was the year of the DT draft.

Seymour taken first,rams wasted two top 10 picks on Damiene Lewis out of Miami (who was just signed by the Pats as a FA from the Vikes.Never been much special at all & Ryan Pickett from OSU with the 10th pick.Now paying dividends at NT for the Packers but never did anything as a ram.

That year was flooded with DT's.Two from Texas & Two from Tennessee.Casey Hampton & Shaun Rogers from Texas and Haynesworth & John Henderson from Tennessee and In the second round Kris Jenkins was the earliest STUD DT to show up a year later besides Casey Hampton as a Super STUD NT as a rookie for the Steelers.
That same draft a pretty good LB from Miami in Morgan was drafted.The rams wanted Morgan but took the two worse DT's of all mentioned as both soon started getting and staying injured and NEVER helped them on defense.Shame the rams ran a 4-3 and blew taking Hampton as a NT.
Seymour got his rings and Haynesworth got the mega payday.

I don't see any DT worth taking this year in the first that will still be around when we pick.After the rams wasted more first round DT picks on Jimmy Kennedy from Penn State and Carriker who has been a bust along with Howie Longs kid.They are probably scared to take Suh and see him bust.(WHICH HE WON'T).The Lions and Bucs will reap the top 2 DT's this year.
I'm not sure the rams have enough talent to help Sam Brittleford survive long enough taking years of hits.
I think Williams will be gone when we pick and maybe even Odrick too may surprise as he's rising the late fasttrack.Its gonna be interesting.

Great post, Doug! Right on the $$$$.

 

[kerouac9]

Casey Hampton started from the get go for the Steelers at NT,and I think he was "D" rookie of the year.I forget.It was the year of the DT draft.

Seymour taken first,rams wasted two top 10 picks on Damiene Lewis out of Miami (who was just signed by the Pats as a FA from the Vikes.Never been much special at all & Ryan Pickett from OSU with the 10th pick.Now paying dividends at NT for the Packers but never did anything as a ram.

That year was flooded with DT's.Two from Texas & Two from Tennessee.Casey Hampton & Shaun Rogers from Texas and Haynesworth & John Henderson from Tennessee and In the second round Kris Jenkins was the earliest STUD DT to show up a year later besides Casey Hampton as a Super STUD NT as a rookie for the Steelers.
That same draft a pretty good LB from Miami in Morgan was drafted.The rams wanted Morgan but took the two worse DT's of all mentioned as both soon started getting and staying injured and NEVER helped them on defense.Shame the rams ran a 4-3 and blew taking Hampton as a NT.
Seymour got his rings and Haynesworth got the mega payday.

I don't see any DT worth taking this year in the first that will still be around when we pick.After the rams wasted more first round DT picks on Jimmy Kennedy from Penn State and Carriker who has been a bust along with Howie Longs kid.They are probably scared to take Suh and see him bust.(WHICH HE WON'T).The Lions and Bucs will reap the top 2 DT's this year.
I'm not sure the rams have enough talent to help Sam Brittleford survive long enough taking years of hits.
I think Williams will be gone when we pick and maybe even Odrick too may surprise as he's rising the late fasttrack.Its gonna be interesting.

Casey Hampton didn't start the first 5 weeks of his pro career.

Kendrell Bell was DROY. Hampton had 20 tackles and 2 sacks.

So other than your facts being wrong, you are--as Mitch said--right on the $$$$.

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree. These guys aren't 3-4 ILBs, they're 3-4 WILBs. Highsmith, Dansby and Beisel were the only consistently active WILB's on our roster last year. Either Weatherspoon or Washington would get destroyed at Hayes' SILB spot. Also, Washington is an OLB IIRC.

What is this based on? Hayes plays at 6'1", 246 lbs. Weatherspoon is 6'1", 239. You don't think he could gain 8-10 lbs with Lott before Week 1?

Aren't WILBs by definition ILBs? It's right there in the name...

 

[Doug]

Casey Hampton didn't start the first 5 weeks of his pro career.

Kendrell Bell was DROY. Hampton had 20 tackles and 2 sacks.

So other than your facts being wrong, you are--as Mitch said--right on the $$$$.

Forgive me.I did write that I did'nt remember that fact,right?The fact a rookie started 11 games for a team that does'nt believe in starting rookies,as our own head coach now was coaching on Casey Hampton's team.

Most pro watchers know it normally takes a year for even the most dominant DT/NT rookies.Many explode or implode in thier NFL sophmore year.Hampton exploded as did Seymour and especially Kris Jenkins did as his big payday would soon follow as he was a second round pick,and only signed for three years.

A slower start for Haynesworth & Henderson.I believe Stroud had a slow start also.
A NT is not there to make many tackles but try to draw a double team and clog the middle.So Please don't try and downgrade the effect of Hampton as he got two rings from him playing the way he has.Then to add 3 SACKS too as a rookie starting 11 regular season games.Maybe his play contributed to the extra freedom Kendrell Bell had to dominate and win the "ROY" award?Just saying.NT's will never get any pub,no matter what.

Of all the DT's I mentioned drafted that year.10 I think very early.Casey Hampton is the only one STILL with his original drafting team.Even Seymour was moved on after winning 2 rings.

 

[kerouac9]

Forgive me.I did write that I did'nt remember that fact,right?The fact a rookie started 11 games for a team that does'nt believe in starting rookies,as our own head coach now was coaching on Casey Hampton's team.

Most pro watchers know it normally takes a year for even the most dominant DT/NT rookies.Many explode or implode in thier NFL sophmore year.Hampton exploded as did Seymour and especially Kris Jenkins did as his big payday would soon follow as he was a second round pick,and only signed for three years.

A slower start for Haynesworth & Henderson.I believe Stroud had a slow start also.
A NT is not there to make many tackles but try to draw a double team and clog the middle.So Please don't try and downgrade the effect of Hampton as he got two rings from him playing the way he has.Then to add 3 SACKS too as a rookie starting 11 regular season games.Maybe his play contributed to the extra freedom Kendrell Bell had to dominate and win the "ROY" award?Just saying.NT's will never get any pub,no matter what.

Of all the DT's I mentioned drafted that year.10 I think very early.Casey Hampton is the only one STILL with his original drafting team.Even Seymour was moved on after winning 2 rings.

So... you essentially agree with me, then?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Seymour IS NOT A NT. He's a defensive end in the 3-4 alignment. Vince Wilfork mans the NT position.

 

[kerouac9]

Seymour IS NOT A NT. He's a defensive end in the 3-4 alignment. Vince Wilfork mans the NT position.

And for what it's worth, Haynesworth is trying to force his way out of Washington because he doesn't want to play NT, either. Henderson is also a 4-3 DT, not necessarily an NT. One would think that Stroud would man the NT position now that he's in Buffalo, but they're apparently in the market for a "True" NT as well.

 

[Doug]

When the draft I referred to happened only Hampton was drafted originally for a NT position.
Since that draft many of these drafted college DT's have become NT's as more teams began running the more popular 3-4 defense.
Seymour started as a DT then moved to DE in the Pats 3-4.

Mainly pointing out the biggest DT draft I can ever remember in the modern draft.Never seen more top 10 DT's drafted in one draft as I pointed out from memory with most of the failures coming from the rams.As some of these college DT's became NT's in the NFL,they have found more success.

Yes expecting the best DT ever in the draft to dominate his rookie year,maybe like a Suh will still struggle like Mario Williams did his rookie year as a DE.The transition just takes time.

Maybe Cody falls some as teams know his first year will be a struggle.

So I can see a Weatherspoon,Cody,Spikes(a)Shipley(b),as a possibility.

 

[Catfish]

The thing about mock drafts is that you really have to use SOMEONE'S Top 200 board if it's going to work out. Otherwise, you're just sort of hoping someone's going to be available. While the draft never goes "chalk" according to someone's board, it's important that you have a couple ideas how the draft is going to play out.

These three Cardinal mocks are based on the Top 200 Boards of The Huddle Report, CBSSports/NFLDraftScout.com, and NFL.com's "Best Available" list.

THE HUDDLE REPORT
1 (26) - Jerry Hughes, OLB, Texas Christian. The Cards are faced with a possible trade down scenario here, but take Hughes because it gives them more flexibility with Clark Haggans competing at SILB in training camp.
2 (58) - Brandon Ghee, CB, Wake Forest. Another position where the players the Cards need just don't fall. Ghee will compete for the 3rd CB spot right off the bat, and give the Cards a very bright future in the secondary.
3a (88) - Donald Butler, LB, Washington. Had a good round of post-season workouts and should immediately complete for the WILB job.
3b (89) - Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas. A little bit of a reach, but the Cards will like loading up on possession-type WRs to continue to give Matt Leinart places to throw the football.
4 (123) - Pat Angerer, LB, Iowa. Will start off on special teams, but fans will enjoy watching him compete for the SILB job early in camp.
6 (195) - Ed Wang, OT, Virginia Tech. I think that if you have the chance to let your fans purchase jerseys with "Wang" on the back (especially if he wears the OL-eligible "69"), you have to take it.
7 (233) - Zac Robinson, QB, Oklahoma State. The team doesn't feel like it's going to have great options for UDCFAs following the draft, so they invest in a late-round prospect with some good athleticism who they can groom for the future backup job.

NFLDraftScout.com
1 (26) - Jerry Hughes, OLB, Texas Christian.
2 (58) - Linval Joseph, DT, East Carolina. The upside with Joseph is that he's going to immediately contribute in a rotation at the NT position. The possible downside is that he's Alan Branch, Pt. 2.
3a (88) - Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida. The 40 time doesn't say everything about this kid who is tough and physical in the run game.
3b (89) - Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinnati. The former Bearcats star will earn his living on special teams while he becomes more finished in the receiving game--just like the player to whom he best compares, Steve Breaston.
4 (123) - John Skelton, QB, Fordham. Skelton has all the physical tools. As the #3 for at least the first year, he'll have time to adjust to the speed of the game. The bigger question is where he'll look for help on becoming a leadrer of men.
6 (195) - Vincent Rey, LB, Duke. The Cards just couldn't find value at the WILB position in this draft. They're stuck with another developmental prospect in Rey, who was not a Combine invitee.
7 (233) - Darryl Sharpton, ILB, Miami (FL). Will compete for a spot on special teams.

NFL.com
1 (26) - Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri. Surprisingly, NFL.com has Weatherspoon rated in the 30s. He's an easy pick here.
2 (58) - Daryl Washington, LB, TCU. Washington may be a risky pick for the scheme, but he can quickly become a contributor in nickel coverages. Also, I've heard that the children of his enemies wish he was their dad.
3a (88) - Brandon Lang, OLB, Troy. Lang may not be active often in his rookie season, but the Cards hope that he can develop like another DE conversion from Troy.
3b (89) - Dominique Franks, CB, Oklahoma. Franks will contribute immediately as a punt returner and on coverages teams. Eventually, he should become a solid nickel cornerback.
4 (123) - Torell Troup, NT, Central Florida. Troup will immediately contribute as a wave player, spelling Gabe Watson at the nose tackle position. The Cards are thrilled that he's still on the board.
6 (195) - A.J. Edds, LB, Iowa. The Cards love drafting former Hawkeyes, and Edds continues the re-making of the Arizona Cardinals' interior linebacking corps. If Edds is able to add weight to his frame, he could be able to play on the strongside of the defense either inside or outside, as Clark Haggans is able to do now.
7 (233) - Mike Tepper, OL, California. The Golden Bear is a mature prospect (after being granted a sixth year of college eligibility) and falls this far because of severe medical concerns. But he's the kind of massive prospect (6'5", 324) that Russ Grimm loves to take and mold into his system.
Priority Free Agent - Tim Hiller, QB, Western Michigan. Small-school QB should at least find himself a spot on the practice squad.
Priority Free Agent - Riar Greer, TE, Colorado
Priority Free Agant - Nate Bynam, TE, Pittsburgh

K-9-----if we were to fall into mock #3-----I would do back flips. That would be fantastic in my opinion.

 

[kerouac9]

When the draft I referred to happened only Hampton was drafted originally for a NT position.
Since that draft many of these drafted college DT's have become NT's as more teams began running the more popular 3-4 defense.
Seymour started as a DT then moved to DE in the Pats 3-4.

Mainly pointing out the biggest DT draft I can ever remember in the modern draft.Never seen more top 10 DT's drafted in one draft as I pointed out from memory with most of the failures coming from the rams.As some of these college DT's became NT's in the NFL,they have found more success.

Yes expecting the best DT ever in the draft to dominate his rookie year,maybe like a Suh will still struggle like Mario Williams did his rookie year as a DE.The transition just takes time.

Maybe Cody falls some as teams know his first year will be a struggle.

So I can see a Weatherspoon,Cody,Spikes(a)Shipley(b),as a possibility.

Doug, you're confusing two drafts: http://drafthistory.com/positions/dt.html Well, you're not so much confusing them, as conflating them. If you add together the 2001 and 2002 drafts, then yes 10 DTs were taken in the first round. Eight were taken in the first 2 rounds of the 2001 draft. Some of them have been good (Seymour, Stroud, Hampton, and Jenkins), some of them turned out to be adequate (Rogers when properly motivated) and a lot of them turned out to be huge busts (Warren, Lewis, Willie Howard).

EDIT: But, I think that what you're saying (it's really, really not clear) is that some college DTs transition eventually to NT. Is that right? If that were the case, the only player that you'd be pointing at would be Rogers. Jenkins' body may not have been able to take the beating of the position--he was pretty good for the Jets two years ago, but he fell apart after 6 games this year and ended up on Injured Reserve.

I guess what you're saying is that some NTs are made, not born? I wanted to get a NT in free agency. Look back at some of my threads from February and March. I really, really wanted the Cards to sign either Jimmy Kennedy or Fred Robbins and see if they could play the zero-technique. The Cards didn't do that, and so now we're stuck having to draft one.

Does anyone remember Nate Dwyer, the 4th round DT the Cards took in the 2002 draft? Who the hell was that guy? He apparently spent one year on the roster and never appeared in a game? Great draft work.

 

[Doug]

Doug, you're confusing two drafts: http://drafthistory.com/positions/dt.html Well, you're not so much confusing them, as conflating them. If you add together the 2001 and 2002 drafts, then yes 10 DTs were taken in the first round. Eight were taken in the first 2 rounds of the 2001 draft. Some of them have been good (Seymour, Stroud, Hampton, and Jenkins), some of them turned out to be adequate (Rogers when properly motivated) and a lot of them turned out to be huge busts (Warren, Lewis, Willie Howard).

EDIT: But, I think that what you're saying (it's really, really not clear) is that some college DTs transition eventually to NT. Is that right? If that were the case, the only player that you'd be pointing at would be Rogers. Jenkins' body may not have been able to take the beating of the position--he was pretty good for the Jets two years ago, but he fell apart after 6 games this year and ended up on Injured Reserve.

I guess what you're saying is that some NTs are made, not born? I wanted to get a NT in free agency. Look back at some of my threads from February and March. I really, really wanted the Cards to sign either Jimmy Kennedy or Fred Robbins and see if they could play the zero-technique. The Cards didn't do that, and so now we're stuck having to draft one.

Does anyone remember Nate Dwyer, the 4th round DT the Cards took in the 2002 draft? Who the hell was that guy? He apparently spent one year on the roster and never appeared in a game? Great draft work.

How is it Adam Carraker and Ryan Pickett don't even show up on this (premiere?) web site? Consider your sources.I would'nt use this for proving points.Its flawed.I was'nt looking very hard either.Just considered missing rams high DT drafts recently missing.Can't imagine what and who else is missing.
Plus Jimmy Kennedy could'nt offer the CARDINALS anything but a giant hole.He's toast.Could'nt even start for the Panthers.

 

[kerouac9]

How is it Adam Carraker and Ryan Pickett don't even show up on this (premiere?) web site? Consider your sources.I would'nt use this for proving points.Its flawed.I was'nt looking very hard either.Just considered missing rams high DT drafts recently missing.Can't imagine what and who else is missing.
Plus Jimmy Kennedy could'nt offer the CARDINALS anything but a giant hole.He's toast.Could'nt even start for the Panthers.

Because they're both listed as DEs. That's where Carriker was listed out of college: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=8447&draftyear=2007&genpos=DE

Pickett was also considered a possible DE prospect coming out of Ohio State: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=60443&draftyear=2001&genpos=DT

Dude, just give it up. It's okay to be wrong sometimes.

Jimmy Kennedy was a decent player for the Vikings as a rotational NT for Pat Williams. That's what I'd want him to be here. The Vikings apparently liked him enough to give him a new deal.

 

[Doug]

Because they're both listed as DEs. That's where Carriker was listed out of college: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=8447&draftyear=2007&genpos=DE

Pickett was also considered a possible DE prospect coming out of Ohio State: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=60443&draftyear=2001&genpos=DT

Dude, just give it up. It's okay to be wrong sometimes.

Jimmy Kennedy was a decent player for the Vikings as a rotational NT for Pat Williams. That's what I'd want him to be here. The Vikings apparently liked him enough to give him a new deal.

Give what up?Debating you? Why? when I say your fact finding sources are flawed?They are.Isn't Pickett a NT for the Packers?Did he ever play DE with Ohio State? NO! So its all subjective.The Williams brothers were and always would be the starters for the Vikes.Kennedy was reduced to a poor backup and not a rotational role even.Only played due to one of the Williams boys being out of shape and needing a breather.He stunk for the rams and was gladly released.
Kennedy's not a starter for any team in the NFL if he can't start for the lambs.Puhlease.He's DONE.His would'nt make the cut with a Whiz Coached team.
That new deal is for a year.thats all they need him for backup purposes.Was'nt a big contract and was'nt done in a hurry either.Just resigning an aging backup when no other NFL team came after him.Did they?
Carricker and Pickett played DT for the rams,as they played in college.Why can't you just give it up? Your sources are not perfect.neither am I but much of this has just been proven to be based on PURE SPECULATION.Making it not fully accurate.
I like you and am not picking any sparring match.Just let it go.Much of these scouting sites are based on SPECULATION and who played where in college,not where your favorite website thought they would end up.WOW! just Wow.