Timberwolves @ Suns Monday game thread 12-9-19

[Phrazbit]

This upcoming free agent class is really bad, I could see Baynes getting an Ariza type of contract from someone. Either one year for $10-12 million or 2 years at $20.

Take a look at some of the lists of top free agents. Other than Anthony Davis they're all guys who shouldn't get more than the mid-level exception like Baynes. Here's one article about the FA class from CBS Sports. They have Ingram, DeRozen, Otto Porter, and Danillo Gallinari round out the top 5.

Bleacher Report has Dragic, DeRozen, Marc Gasol, and Eric Gordon. Lowry and Draymond are listed but they inked extensions already.

This years cast of players are either too old, like Gasol, Millsap and Ibaka, injury prone like Hayward or Cousins, or really young and unproven players like Caris LaVert or Ingram. It's not a good class.

Baynes will likely be overpaid just based on who is out there and how he compares to them. However if he keeps missing games like he has so far, that might lessen his value. No one wants to pay for a guy to be on the bench in street clothes.

Honestly, 2 years, 10 million per is not a problem at all for the Suns cash considerations, unless they think they're going to land a star from somewhere. Even getting that figure requires Baynes to maintain his high level of play AND to stop missing games. We're getting way ahead of ourselves, especially considering the minute reduction Baynes will see when Ayton returns.

I was originally replaying to 1Sun anyway, who only a few months ago thought Baynes was absolute garbage and that Oubre was going to get a max offer from the Knicks.

 

[BC867]

Regarding Baynes, his return, and the results, have proven that the idea of not
needing a legitimate Center (or two) does not lead to success is wrong.

When Ayton and Baynes -- Ay & Bay -- share the Center position, we will see
even better results than how we started the season. For the rest of the season.

With Saric and Diallo hopefully continuing to grow in covering the Power Forward
position.

Add to that, Rubio dishing out dimes at PG, Booker scoring big time at SG and
Oubre at SF, with Bridges coming off the bench and as defensive specialist . . .
and all we'll need is to keep solidifying the rest of the backup positions. And
we'll be very good shape. Barring any major injury.

Deterioration should not be a factor when each of the five positions is covered
with solid starters and backups. And team chemistry should build regularly.

Hopefully, individual and team defense will also improve. Which will make a
difference between winning and losing the final four or five minutes of close
games. Luckily, it is still early enough in the season to achieve that.

With Jones and Monty making their magic. Legitimate optimism is a good feeling!

Go, Suns will no longer be a hope. It will be a plan!

 

[Ronin]

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[elindholm]

If I’m trying to upgrade the 4, I’m seeing what it’d take to get Aaron Gordon away from Orlando.

I used to be high on Gordon, but he's undersized for a PF and his game has really plateaued. So far this year he's averaging less than 14 and 7 on really bad shooting numbers. Hard pass.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I used to be high on Gordon, but he's undersized for a PF and his game has really plateaued. So far this year he's averaging less than 14 and 7 on really bad shooting numbers. Hard pass.

Yeah I’d like for him to be the answer, and who knows how he would play in this environment with Monty as coach, but I fear the contract for the production.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I used to be high on Gordon, but he's undersized for a PF and his game has really plateaued. So far this year he's averaging less than 14 and 7 on really bad shooting numbers. Hard pass.

I am with you. No point in trying to get a different player unless he is truly better than what you have. Ayton would be a better pf.

 

[Superbone]

Regarding Baynes, his return, and the results, have proven that the idea of not
needing a legitimate Center (or two) does not lead to success is wrong.

When Ayton and Baynes -- Ay & Bay -- share the Center position, we will see
even better results than how we started the season. For the rest of the season.

With Saric and Diallo hopefully continuing to grow in covering the Power Forward
position.

Add to that, Rubio dishing out dimes at PG, Booker scoring big time at SG and
Oubre at SF, with Bridges coming off the bench and as defensive specialist . . .
and all we'll need is to keep solidifying the rest of the backup positions. And
we'll be very good shape. Barring any major injury.

Deterioration should not be a factor when each of the five positions is covered
with solid starters and backups. And team chemistry should build regularly.

Hopefully, individual and team defense will also improve. Which will make a
difference between winning and losing the final four or five minutes of close
games. Luckily, it is still early enough in the season to achieve that.

With Jones and Monty making their magic. Legitimate optimism is a good feeling!

Go, Suns will no longer be a hope. It will be a plan!

Ay & Bay or AB for short. So, when we have both centers we'll be back to AB "Abby" Normal?

(Sorry, I apologize in advance. That was a long way to go.)

 

[Superbone]

Yeah he used to make stuff up all the time which is why I've always thought perhaps his vision was failing.

Yep, or here was another Albert classic: "Now they're saying it was a 2 pointer."

Nope, he was two feet inside the line when he shot it, Steve. Nobody thought it was a 3 pointer except you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yep, or here was another Albert classic: "Now they're saying it was a 2 pointer."

Nope, he was two feet inside the line when he shot it, Steve. Nobody thought it was a 3 pointer except you.

Yeah, I remember him doing that often enough too. Or how about: now they're saying that Booker touched it last (when Booker was the only guy who could have touched it on either team). He uses that same approach when he gets anything wrong (which team is shooting free throws, which player is shooting free throws, who the foul was called on, who made the shot, who blocked the shot etc).

One of the tip-offs for how badly he'd missed the play was the glaring silence of his partner whether it was Eddie or Annie. How do you gently correct someone that is that far off the mark? They were usually smart enough to let it play out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ay & Bay or AB for short. So, when we have both centers we'll be back to AB "Abby" Normal?

(Sorry, I apologize in advance. That was a long way to go.)

Put the candle back!

 

[Superbone]

Yeah, I remember him doing that often enough too. Or how about: now they're saying that Booker touched it last (when Booker was the only guy who could have touched it on either team). He uses that same approach when he gets anything wrong (which team is shooting free throws, which player is shooting free throws, who the foul was called on, who made the shot, who blocked the shot etc).

One of the tip-offs for how badly he'd missed the play was the glaring silence of his partner whether it was Eddie or Annie. How do you gently correct someone that is that far off the mark? They were usually smart enough to let it play out.

The funny thing is that I heard his famous brother, Marv use this technique not too long ago but it wasn't nearly as egregious. Maybe that's where Steve learned it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The funny thing is that I heard his famous brother, Marv use this technique not too long ago but it wasn't nearly as egregious. Maybe that's where Steve learned it.

Yeah I've heard a lot of announcers do the same thing but I believe the difference is that with the others, it's just an occasional mistake. For Steve Albert, it's his defining characteristic as an NBA announcer. He seems to be a nice guy, he has a very good voice and unlike some here, I was not bothered by his self-deprecating humor. But you can't (accurately) call what you can't see and he apparently can't see the court from wherever he sits.

 

[hcsilla]

This upcoming free agent class is really bad, I could see Baynes getting an Ariza type of contract from someone. Either one year for $10-12 million or 2 years at $20.

Take a look at some of the lists of top free agents. Other than Anthony Davis they're all guys who shouldn't get more than the mid-level exception like Baynes. Here's one article about the FA class from CBS Sports. They have Ingram, DeRozen, Otto Porter, and Danillo Gallinari round out the top 5.

Bleacher Report has Dragic, DeRozen, Marc Gasol, and Eric Gordon. Lowry and Draymond are listed but they inked extensions already.

This years cast of players are either too old, like Gasol, Millsap and Ibaka, injury prone like Hayward or Cousins, or really young and unproven players like Caris LaVert or Ingram. It's not a good class.

Baynes will likely be overpaid just based on who is out there and how he compares to them. However if he keeps missing games like he has so far, that might lessen his value. No one wants to pay for a guy to be on the bench in street clothes.

I would add Drummond, Harrell and VanVleet to the listed FA's above.

 

[hcsilla]

Honestly, 2 years, 10 million per is not a problem at all for the Suns cash considerations, unless they think they're going to land a star from somewhere. Even getting that figure requires Baynes to maintain his high level of play AND to stop missing games.

I disagree.

If Baynes does both, he will easily get a 20 mil./2 years deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree.

If Baynes does both, he will easily get a 20 mil./2 years deal.

As I read it, I thought Phrazbit was referring to 2 years, $10 million per season.

If that's the case are you not agreeing?

 

[hcsilla]

As I read it, I thought Phrazbit was referring to 2 years, $10 million per season.

If that's the case are you not agreeing?

Yes, I just missed the "per" part of his post.

 

[Hoop Head]

I would add Drummond, Harrell and VanVleet to the listed FA's above.

Drummond has a player option and it's debatable if he'll exercise it. I think he'll make somewhere in the neighborhood of $26 million next year if he doesn't opt out. That's a lot to walk away from, even if he's looking at another big payday.

VanVleet and Harrell will both be paid but I'd be surprised if they leave their current teams. I suppose they are some of the more attractive free agents out there but I tried limiting who I mentioned to the players listed the highest in those articles because those are the guys that will most likely be changing teams, IMO.

 

[95pro]

If I’m trying to upgrade the 4, I’m seeing what it’d take to get Aaron Gordon away from Orlando.

I'm all for this. Despite his numbers being what they are, he does provide a more dynamic option to this team. He's a legit starter and threat, and we actually have 4 other legit starters/threats on any given night as well. That would be a solid 5 starting. Only downside might be Cam or Bridges playing time.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm all for this. Despite his numbers being what they are, he does provide a more dynamic option to this team. He's a legit starter and threat, and we actually have 4 other legit starters/threats on any given night as well. That would be a solid 5 starting. Only downside might be Cam or Bridges playing time.

I agree with that reasoning. Gordon could provide some help in a few areas. He could be that 2nd or 3rd scorer if Oubre's shot isn't falling or if Ayton is off. He'd also provide another good athlete to our frontcourt, which the Suns are lacking right now. Ayton is the only good athlete the Suns have that plays PF or C. They desperately need another quality athlete in the frontcourt.

I think Gordon might be able to be developed as a weakside shot blocker also, which could be huge in the long run. Monty might be able to help turn him around on defense like Booker and the prospect of having an Oubre, Gordon, and Ayton frontcourt is one that teams would have trouble outmatching by size, length, or athleticism.

 

[Ronin]

nvm

 

[BC867]

Yeah I've heard a lot of announcers do the same thing but I believe the difference is that with the others, it's just an occasional mistake. For Steve Albert, it's his defining characteristic as an NBA announcer. He seems to be a nice guy, he has a very good voice and unlike some here, I was not bothered by his self-deprecating humor. But you can't (accurately) call what you can't see and he apparently can't see the court from wherever he sits.

And/or being more interested in being a Catskill comedian than calling play-by-play.

Just as KRay seems more interested in doing color commentary than calling the game.

 

[BC867]

I'm all for this. Despite his numbers being what they are, he does provide a more dynamic option to this team. He's a legit starter and threat, and we actually have 4 other legit starters/threats on any given night as well. That would be a solid 5 starting. Only downside might be Cam or Bridges playing time.

Considering the long-time hip problems that Cam has had, that may not be a problem.

Especially with Bridges now established as the backup Small Forward on regular basis.

 

[Superbone]

And/or being more interested in being a Catskill comedian than calling play-by-play.

Just as KRay seems more interested in doing color commentary than calling the game.

Not to mention Albert's New-YAWK accent.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would add Drummond, Harrell and VanVleet to the listed FA's above.

I liked Montrezl Harrell when he was a free agent two seasons ago. Can't see VanVleet going anywhere.