Time table for KT

[phxrising]

Have they given a recent time table for his return?

 

[Nasser22]

I heard he would be back for game 6 and 7(if necessary). I hope he does get some playing time before the Western Conference Finals.

 

[George O'Brien]

I would be shocked if he gets any serious minutes, even if they get to WCF. It simply takes too long to get into Suns shape.

 

[Gaddabout]

I would be shocked if he gets any serious minutes, even if they get to WCF. It simply takes too long to get into Suns shape.

You don't have to be in Suns shape to lean on Elton Brand. 10 minutes a game would be very appropriate.

 

[Billy Bob]

George
Every time this is brought up You have near the same negative answer, what gives?

 

[Nasser22]

George
Every time this is brought up You have near the same negative answer, what gives?

Well, I guess it's just his opinion on it. I don't agree though.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just reflecting on D'Antoni and the problems the Suns had when they tried to work Amare back into the rotation. I hope I'm wrong, but this is probably the hardest team in the league for someone who is not in first rate shape.

Honestly, I'm still surprised that D'Antoni didn't even try to use Grant on Monday, but Mike's obsession with speed seems to precluse Brian getting on the court.

 

[phxrising]

I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just reflecting on D'Antoni and the problems the Suns had when they tried to work Amare back into the rotation. I hope I'm wrong, but this is probably the hardest team in the league for someone who is not in first rate shape.

Honestly, I'm still surprised that D'Antoni didn't even try to use Grant on Monday, but Mike's obsession with speed seems to precluse Brian getting on the court.

Tim Thomas didn't seem to have to bad a problem when he came on board form his lay off

 

[Folster]

Tim Thomas didn't seem to have to bad a problem when he came on board form his lay off

Tim Thomas wasn't injured. He had been training waiting for his opportunity. You can't compare the two.

 

[Nasser22]

A couple days ago Gambo said on FSN that Kurt should be healthy enough to play in Game 5 but the Suns probably wouldn't play him until a Game 7 because Kurt would have trouble just jumping in and playing at that pace.

 

[az1965]

I heard he would be back for game 6 and 7(if necessary). I hope he does get some playing time before the Western Conference Finals.

Which means he is not playing until WCF...

 

[Nasser22]

Precisely.

 

[Gorilla]

Notebook: K. Thomas won’t play this round
By Matt Paulson, Tribune
May 16, 2006
There has been some recent speculation that Kurt Thomas, out since late February due to a stress fracture in his right foot, is on the verge of returning to the Suns’ lineup.

Related Links
Phoenix Suns / NBA

The 6-foot-9 forward, who has fully recovered from the injury, has been jogging for the last week and a half and a few days ago started shooting, “doing some pick and pops with the coaches and some reactive and agility stuff,” head athletic trainer Aaron Nelson said.

But coach Mike D’Antoni squelched the possibility of Thomas playing against the Clippers, saying he wouldn’t be available until at least the conference finals, should the Suns get that far.

“He’s another week or so (away). He’ll have to get some practice in, get it going,” D’Antoni said, referring to Thomas’ conditioning. “It would be a real stretch to think he could play this series.”

OUT OF SYNC

The two fouls Shawn Marion picked up in the first 1:11 of the third quarter of Game 4, which gave him four for the game, proved costly for the Suns on both ends of the court.

Marion sat out the entire rest of the third due to his foul trouble, allowing Clippers guard Sam Cassell more room to work. Cassell finished with 11 points, four rebounds and three assists in the period and hoisted up half of his 20 shots in the game with Marion out.

When Marion did return in the fourth, he had trouble getting going on the offensive end, contributing only six points, two on free throws, two on a dunk and two on a putback with six seconds remaining.

“I couldn’t get back in the game,” said Marion, who had eight points in the first half. “That’s when Sam got it going. I couldn’t really get into a rhythm like I wanted to because I’m sitting on the bench the whole damn quarter.”

MOTOR MOUTH

Cassell is notorious for his constant chatter during games. The veteran point guard, it seems, is always carrying on a conversation with his teammates, opposing players, coaches or officials.

When asked about Cassell’s gift for gab, Steve Nash, whom Cassell still refers to as “rook” despite Nash’s 10 seasons in the league, had this take:

“I think he’d talk to himself if he had no one else to talk to.”

 

[nowagimp]

You don't have to be in Suns shape to lean on Elton Brand. 10 minutes a game would be very appropriate.

If KT was out of shape and tried to lean on Elton Brand, he would be sitting on the floor watching him dunk in the next few seconds. Dont fool yourself, guarding elton brand is a major physical exertion. I really like KT, but KT's greatest value is in guarding the Kamans, Yaos and Shaqs of the NBA, not fast, long, players who can shoot over or go around him like elton brand, he just doesnt have the footspeed or shot blocking. I really like KT because he is the most effective defender of BIG men(guys who bang on the low block) on the suns roster, he eats up the Dampiers, is our best against Duncan but he really cant guard KG, 'sheed or Brand. KT is also our best fundamental (read box out) rebounder.

 

[elindholm]

If KT was out of shape and tried to lean on Elton Brand, he would be sitting on the floor watching him dunk in the next few seconds.

I agree with that...

KT's greatest value is in guarding the Kamans, Yaos and Shaqs of the NBA, not fast, long, players who can shoot over or go around him like elton brand, he just doesnt have the footspeed or shot blocking.

But not with that. Brand isn't particularly fast or quick. His footwork and body control are excellent and his mid-range jumper has to be respected, but he's not really a "shooter" and his game does not rely on "footspeed." I think a healthy Kurt Thomas would defend Brand quite well, although of course Brand would still get his numbers, because he is that kind of player.

 

[nowagimp]

If KT was out of shape and tried to lean on Elton Brand, he would be sitting on the floor watching him dunk in the next few seconds.

I agree with that...

KT's greatest value is in guarding the Kamans, Yaos and Shaqs of the NBA, not fast, long, players who can shoot over or go around him like elton brand, he just doesnt have the footspeed or shot blocking.

But not with that. Brand isn't particularly fast or quick. His footwork and body control are excellent and his mid-range jumper has to be respected, but he's not really a "shooter" and his game does not rely on "footspeed." I think a healthy Kurt Thomas would defend Brand quite well, although of course Brand would still get his numbers, because he is that kind of player.

I think that you'll find that in the NBA, Brand is regarded as quick for a guy who plays that big(wingspan of a 7 footer), Brand has a bigger reach than even Kaman, and obviously much more footspeed. That is, if both stand flat footed and try to extend their hands upward, Brand has one inch more reach to block shots flatfooted. And Brand is what 6'9", maybe. For a guy with that wingspan in the NBA, brand is quick, and he uses all that length as he goes to the hoop. Quickness is relative, no 3,4 or 5 is quick when compared with say Leandro.

 

[Chaz]

Brand isn't particularly fast or quick. His footwork and body control are excellent and his mid-range jumper has to be respected, but he's not really a "shooter" and his game does not rely on "footspeed." I think a healthy Kurt Thomas would defend Brand quite well, although of course Brand would still get his numbers, because he is that kind of player.

Agreed.

The most valuable part of having KT is that the other players could stay at home and not have to double Brand every time.

Brand would get good numbers most likely but he wouldn't kill us on the offensive glass and throw our defense into chaos every time down the floor.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If KT was out of shape and tried to lean on Elton Brand, he would be sitting on the floor watching him dunk in the next few seconds.

I agree with that...

KT's greatest value is in guarding the Kamans, Yaos and Shaqs of the NBA, not fast, long, players who can shoot over or go around him like elton brand, he just doesnt have the footspeed or shot blocking.

But not with that. Brand isn't particularly fast or quick. His footwork and body control are excellent and his mid-range jumper has to be respected, but he's not really a "shooter" and his game does not rely on "footspeed." I think a healthy Kurt Thomas would defend Brand quite well, although of course Brand would still get his numbers, because he is that kind of player.

last year you would have been correct, this year, not so much. after dropping the weight elton is MUCH quicker. and if you don't think he's a shooter now, you just haven't been watching this series. he's killing us with turnaround jumpers. it's not like he's killing us with incredible postups and just overpowering us. yes, he's doing that with the boards, but not offensively.

all that said, do i think kt could help with brand? absolutely. just b/c of his fundamentals and board work.

 

[elindholm]

and if you don't think he's a shooter now, you just haven't been watching this series. he's killing us with turnaround jumpers.

Sigh. Yes, I've been watching the series, and I've taken note of his turnaround jumpers. By "shooter" I meant someone who creates his own shot off the dribble, which I thought was implied by nowagimp's post. All the quickness in the world doesn't help a defender on a turnaround -- that's why it's such a powerful weapon -- so it's not a speed issue.

In his prime, Barkley had a very effective turnaround jumper as well, but I'd never consider him a "shooter."

 

[Tank]

I think the area KT would help the most would be rebounding. Regardless of how he does defensively, the guy knows how to box out and keep the opponent from getting the offensive board.

 

[nowagimp]

last year you would have been correct, this year, not so much. after dropping the weight elton is MUCH quicker. and if you don't think he's a shooter now, you just haven't been watching this series. he's killing us with turnaround jumpers. it's not like he's killing us with incredible postups and just overpowering us. yes, he's doing that with the boards, but not offensively.

all that said, do i think kt could help with brand? absolutely. just b/c of his fundamentals and board work.

This is exactly what I have been hearing about Brand, that his weightloss and quickness is up alot this year. Its scouting talk, about why Brand has been so effective this year. He's also definitely a shooter by just about any standard, though he doesnt have 3pt range.

 

[nowagimp]

and if you don't think he's a shooter now, you just haven't been watching this series. he's killing us with turnaround jumpers.

Sigh. Yes, I've been watching the series, and I've taken note of his turnaround jumpers. By "shooter" I meant someone who creates his own shot off the dribble."

So Elton cant create his own shot off the dribble? That should be looked into a bit. Its not like he has been a catch and shoot guy or getting alot of screens to get off his shot. Elton mostly shoots off his dribble.

 

[elindholm]

I can't believe we're having this discussion. Brand shoots the following kinds of shots:

1. Close to the rim
2. Turnaround jumpers, usually from the left block
3. Catch-and-shoot coming off a screen at about the free-throw line
4. The move where he goes over his left shoulder, then sort of floats back and shoots a 12-footer straight on (or a jump hook)
5. Once in a while, a stand-still face-up jumper from the wing

He does not "shoot off his dribble." He uses his dribble in the post, like any post player does.

 

[nowagimp]

I can't believe we're having this discussion. Brand shoots the following kinds of shots:

1. Close to the rim
2. Turnaround jumpers, usually from the left block
3. Catch-and-shoot coming off a screen at about the free-throw line
4. The move where he goes over his left shoulder, then sort of floats back and shoots a 12-footer straight on
5. Once in a while, a stand-still face-up jumper from the wing

He does not "shoot off his dribble." He uses his dribble in the post, like any post player does.

OK, so if he shoots off the dribble in the low post, thats not creating his own shot. What player in the NBA score 25 ppg and "cannot create his own shot off the dribble"? This all goes back to the Eltons "not quick" statement, which is pretty much undefendable. What legitimate PF in the NBA is quicker? KG(no), Duncan(no), Rasheed(no), who? Imagine, the suns are constantly doubling a guy -after he puts the ball on the floor- who cant create his own shot off the dribble and He's shooting 54% FG's. Sounds like a bad defensive philosophy to me. If he can create his own shot off the dribble why double?

 

[elindholm]

What player in the NBA score 25 ppg and "cannot create his own shot off the dribble"?

Shaquille O'Neal. Zach Randolph doesn't score 25 per game, but he's close. Barkley in his prime. Webber pre-injury.

What legitimate PF in the NBA is quicker? KG(no), Duncan(no), Rasheed(no), who?

Garnett is quicker, yes. Maybe you don't consider him a "legitimate PF." Stoudemire pre-injury, much quicker. Kenyon Martin pre-injury, also quicker, although not nearly as adept a scorer.

Imagine, the suns are constantly doubling a guy -after he puts the ball on the floor- who cant create his own shot off the dribble and He's shooting 54% FG's.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. I'm not knocking Brand's offensive prowess. It's formidable, to say the least. The Suns double him once he puts the ball on the floor from his post in the low block (or sometimes before). He's scoring off of footwork, not dribble-handling.

If he can create his own shot off the dribble why double?

I assume you mean "can't." We obviously have different interpretations of what "creating a shot off the dribble means." To me, it means using the dribble to get past defenders and/or create space for an uncontested (or at least less contested) shot, almost always while facing the basket. When post players have their back to the basket and maneuver closer with footwork, up fakes, and just plain strength, I don't consider that "off the dribble," even if they have to take a few dribbles to get themselves into position.