Time to start the Shipp vs. JJ thread

[40yearfan]

Shipp 12 carries 54 yards
5 recpt's. 39 yards

If I remember correctly, 2 decent runs lost because of holding penalties and 1 pass reception lost.

Decent numbers but-------(enter K9)

 

[az1965]

Shipp should start. Period.

 

[D-Dogg]

Good numbers...good for him.

However, JJ didn't play, so this is premature. And Step back has made a difference in the running game. It has gone from atrocious to terrible.

Save this debate for a time when we actually have data. The only data we have on them together, at the same level of comp, with the same line is the Giants game where both smelled like a used diaper full of indian food.

 

[bigredjane]

Now that'z funny!!

Good numbers...good for him.

However, JJ didn't play, so this is premature. And Step back has made a difference in the running game. It has gone from atrocious to terrible.

Save this debate for a time when we actually have data. The only data we have on them together, at the same level of comp, with the same line is the Giants game where both smelled like a used diaper full of indian food.

 

[40yearfan]

Good numbers...good for him.

However, JJ didn't play, so this is premature. And Step back has made a difference in the running game. It has gone from atrocious to terrible.

Save this debate for a time when we actually have data. The only data we have on them together, at the same level of comp, with the same line is the Giants game where both smelled like a used diaper full of indian food.

OK, well then how about we count how many tackles Shipp broke today and how many times it took more than one person to bring him down?

 

[D-Dogg]

OK, well then how about we count how many tackles Shipp broke today and how many times it took more than one person to bring him down?

Sure, and don't forget to count how many touchdowns he scored.

 

[40yearfan]

Sure, and don't forget to count how many touchdowns he scored.

As compared to who? We've only scored one so far this season.

 

[az1965]

Sure, and don't forget to count how many touchdowns he scored.

And how many TD has JJ scored? At least we know Shipp has done it in the NFL.

 

[Redsz]

4.5 YPC behind struggling blockers is good enough for me. There where times where he was hit in the backfield but still got positive yds. He is a very strong runner and proburbly our best option until the line gets it's issues sorted.

 

[clif]

This is a waste of time. How do you compare this against a guy that didn't even play?

 

[D-Dogg]

4.5 YPC behind struggling blockers is good enough for me. There where times where he was hit in the backfield but still got positive yds. He is a very strong runner and proburbly our best option until the line gets it's issues sorted.

I'd agree with that, but sadly Shipp will likely be broken at the end of the season, just when we will probably need him most.

JJ is the better back, by far in my mind. But right now the line isn't made for his style of running. Shipp can push a line and break tackles.

But please, for the love of god don't start putting the dude on a pedastal. He's a very, very average at best player.

 

[D-Dogg]

This is a waste of time. How do you compare this against a guy that didn't even play?

Thank you very much. Given they both played like crap against the Gnats, I'm guessing at the very least JJ would have matched these numbers. But ya know, we'll never know that...he could have gotten stoned in the backfield where Shipp slipped a few tackles. But we can't compare them at this point, no matter how hard any Shipp zealots may try.

 

[40yearfan]

I'd agree with that, but sadly Shipp will likely be broken at the end of the season, just when we will probably need him most.

JJ is the better back, by far in my mind. But right now the line isn't made for his style of running. Shipp can push a line and break tackles.

But please, for the love of god don't start putting the dude on a pedastal. He's a very, very average at best player.

Not putting him on a pedestal. At this time, he is the better back and should be the main on running the ball until JJ gets his confidence back. He's running too tentatively right now. He justs needs to realize what it takes to play in the NFL

and get an oline that can block.

Sorry about screaming.

 

[D-Dogg]

And how many TD has JJ scored? At least we know Shipp has done it in the NFL.

8 carries and no TDs...hmm, let's just ditch the guy while the ditchin's good. I mean we have the mighty Pittman..err...Tugboat.

BTW, it's been so long that I've forgotten the last time Shipp scored a TD in this league. But I'm sure someone will come along and remind me.

 

[Redsz]

I agree, JJ has more up side simply because of the potential he has to take it all the way with his speed. But he would of really sturggled out there because he isn't a physical runner like Shipp.

I think they could form a good one - two punch. But until the line gets it together Shipp is the better option IMO.

 

[D-Dogg]

Not putting him on a pedestal. At this time, he is the better back and should be the main on running the ball until JJ gets his confidence back. He's running too tentatively right now. He justs needs to realize what it takes to play in the NFL

and get an oline that can block.

Sorry about screaming.

Like I said, I agree with that point that at this minute, with this terrible line, Shipps running style is a better fit. That doesn't mean he's a better back. He just fits the scenario better since the oline sucks out loud.

Anyway, scream all you can...you know we all want to tonight.

LOUD NOISES!!!!!

 

[clif]

But he would of really sturggled out there because he isn't a physical runner like Shipp.

.

Redsz...I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say this. There is no evidence to back this up.

With this same line of thinking.. I could say something like... JJ would have ran for 150 yards, because he is more shifty than Marcel. There is nothing to back up my point. Same with yours.

 

[az1965]

8 carries and no TDs...hmm, let's just ditch the guy while the ditchin's good. I mean we have the mighty Pittman..err...Tugboat.

BTW, it's been so long that I've forgotten the last time Shipp scored a TD in this league. But I'm sure someone will come along and remind me.

Sure, keep blowing the same horn you Shipp haters by closing the eyes on the fact that he was out all of last season. DUH! Maybe he should have scored on his crutches...

2003 - Total rushing TD = 5; Even Emmitt had only 2 TD. Sure, he sucks also . The team was awful in 2003. We were blown out almost all games and gave up on rushing very early in the games, usually.

2002 - Shipp total 9 TD; 6 rushing, 3 receiving; Couple of them were 60-70 yarders.

 

[az1965]

Redsz...I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say this. There is no evidence to back this up.

With this same line of thinking.. I could say something like... JJ would have ran for 150 yards, because he is more shifty than Marcel. There is nothing to back up my point. Same with yours.

Yes, there is 5 games to back this up. JJ has not shown that he can break tackles. That is a concern and will continue to have problem with this line. Hey, even Green admitted during the training camp that JJ will need a solid run blocking to be successful.

 

[Redsz]

Redsz...I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say this. There is no evidence to back this up.

With this same line of thinking.. I could say something like... JJ would have ran for 150 yards, because he is more shifty than Marcel. There is nothing to back up my point. Same with yours.

JJ is a seam runner. Not a power back. There where many times where Shipp got hit in the backfield but still got positive yds or got back to the LOS. Can you see JJ doing that? I can't.

There wasn't alot of room to run. And I don't think it is a stretch to say that JJ wouldn't of been able to work with that.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree, JJ has more up side simply because of the potential he has to take it all the way with his speed. But he would of really sturggled out there because he isn't a physical runner like Shipp.

I think they could form a good one - two punch. But until the line gets it together Shipp is the better option IMO.

Who knows, the one play where Shipp hit the hole and ran over the safety, Wolfley was going nuts about what a great run it was and how tough Shipp is finishing plays. And then Pasch sort of mentioned that's the difference between Shipp and JJ, JJ probably tries to make that guy miss and break the long run, Shipp just lowered his head and ran into him. It's fun to watch, but it's also why Shipp hasn't been durable he takes so many shots.

Wolfley, a former FB, said that Shipp isn't going to get many 20+ runs but he'll put his nose in there and get what he can get, a very physical runner. He said something about we've all seen in practice that JJ can break off the longer runs we just haven't seen it in games yet.

I really get the impression that's the whole thing for Green, he thinks the threat of a 40-50 yard run is more valuable in his offense than a pounding runner like Shipp but so far with this OL it appears the opposite is true.

Start Shipp until JJ shows he's better.

 

[BigRedRage]

shipp did a fantastic job of turning lemons into lemonade. I LOVE HAVING THE TUGBOAT SOUND BACK!!!!

 

[Shane]

Who knows, the one play where Shipp hit the hole and ran over the safety, Wolfley was going nuts about what a great run it was and how tough Shipp is finishing plays. And then Pasch sort of mentioned that's the difference between Shipp and JJ, JJ probably tries to make that guy miss and break the long run, Shipp just lowered his head and ran into him. It's fun to watch, but it's also why Shipp hasn't been durable he takes so many shots.

Wolfley, a former FB, said that Shipp isn't going to get many 20+ runs but he'll put his nose in there and get what he can get, a very physical runner. He said something about we've all seen in practice that JJ can break off the longer runs we just haven't seen it in games yet.

I really get the impression that's the whole thing for Green, he thinks the threat of a 40-50 yard run is more valuable in his offense than a pounding runner like Shipp but so far with this OL it appears the opposite is true.

Start Shipp until JJ shows he's better.

But Shipp breaks offplenty of the 15-20 yard variety that are very effective. He had two or three other called back by penalties.

 

[Russ Smith]

But Shipp breaks offplenty of the 15-20 yard variety that are very effective. He had two or three other called back by penalties.

I agree and so did Wolfley. I think they were just trying to explain why they feel Green started JJ, because they feel that in practice and camp he showed the ability to take some of those plays for a lot more yards than Shipp has in the past(remember he wasn't practicing most of that time himself).

But to me, at this point I'd rather see 2-3 yard gain with an occasional 10-15 yard burst than waiting on a 50 yarder and getting a bunch of 0's and 1's and right now that's what JJ is getting because he can't make yards with no hole the way Shipp can.

I think JJ will ultimately be the guy but right now Shipp is clearly more effective and should be starting.

I'd try JJ on KO returns this week, find ways to get his speed on the field. Assuming of course he's healthy. I'm still waiting for an update on that flu sounded yesterday like maybe he was sicker than we were being told I really hope that's not the case.

 

[artp]

With the mess the OL is in right now, I'd start Shipp. JJ should get some chances each game to learn, but Shipp gives us a better chance right now to have a decent running game.