Toler Works On Comeback

[52brandon]

Agreed. In Tolar's case it would be both. The guy spent 2010 getting abused by virtually every receiver he matched up against. Yes, he got a lot of tackles, but it was largely a reflection of how awful he was at preventing a catch.

I thought him and DRC had about the same amount of pass-defenses as well...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Agreed. In Tolar's case it would be both. The guy spent 2010 getting abused by virtually every receiver he matched up against. Yes, he got a lot of tackles, but it was largely a reflection of how awful he was at preventing a catch.

He was a 1st year starter from a tiny college and held his own. With the natural steps of improving, he was/is/could be on his way to being a very good CB. He didn't get abused and the Cards ofetn played a soft coverage scheme that allowed for many completions.

 

[Zeno]

The Tolar love is insane. Tolar MIGHT be good, but the last time we saw him on the field he was god awful and he has blown out his ACL since then. The only reason to have any optimism for Tolar is the hope that he needed a change in the defensive scheme.

I think you aren't giving the man enough credit. He wasn't as bad as you describe, but on the other hand he wasn't as good as other around here believe he was either. He was a first year starter who made some plays at times and got burned at times. There was never anything I watched that made me think he was "God awful" but there was nothing that made me think he would be a Pro Bowler either. I don't see any reason he can't develop in to a quality #2 NFL CB with experience...that is assuming he is 100% after his injury.

BTW his name is TOLER with an E not an A

 

[BigRedRage]

Apparently everyone is going to breakout or make a comeback according azcardinals.com smh

for it.

 

[Duckjake]

I think you aren't giving the man enough credit. He wasn't as bad as you describe, but on the other hand he wasn't as good as other around here believe he was either. He was a first year starter who made some plays at times and got burned at times. There was never anything I watched that made me think he was "God awful" but there was nothing that made me think he would be a Pro Bowler either. I don't see any reason he can't develop in to a quality #2 NFL CB with experience...that is assuming he is 100% after his injury.

BTW his name is TOLER with an E not an A

Toler wasn't a first year starter as he was a rookie in 2009 and played behind McFadden and DRC seeing action in 13 games starting none. Unless you meant it was his first year AS a starter.

But I agree with your take on his abilities.

 

[Duckjake]

I thought him and DRC had about the same amount of pass-defenses as well...

According to profootball-reference.com DRC had almost twice as many pdf's as Toler 17 to 9.

But they both had INTs return for TDs against Dallas.

A game that had yet another come from behind 4th quarter drive led by Double Deuce featuring his 26 yard pass to the Alien on 4th and 15 with 1:17 to play!

 

[JeffGollin]

Toler, when healthy, was expected to be the perfect counterweight to DRC (i.e. fast enough with good ball skills but solid and more physical). It would be great if he came 100% of the way back and established himself opposite PP21 this year; but he's still gotta do it.

On a separate but related topic - what I find fascinating is that we've got something like 19 guys on our roster competing for 8 or 9 jobs in the Cardinal secondary. They're not just cannon-fodder either - there's a lot of quality among the 19.

Competition at DB figures to get pretty intense.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Competition at DB figures to get pretty intense.

That is a good thing for our team. Can't remember when we had so much depth.

 

[JeffGollin]

That is a good thing for our team. Can't remember when we had so much depth.

Funny how depth can quickly melt away.

I'm specifically thinking of the Giants losing Manningham and now Nicks, but being precient enough to draft Randle in the 2nd round to, de facto, avoid a total disaster.

It's happened to us too (when KVB and Wakefield went down at DE several years back and at WR a few years ago. And, this season, the injury to King makes our depth at TE somewhat less rock-solid).

You can never have too many DB's.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

A game that had yet another come from behind 4th quarter drive led by Double Deuce featuring his 26 yard pass to the Alien on 4th and 15 with 1:17 to play!

Merry Xmas!

That was awesome.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I can see Toler as a Safety in the future.

If any corner is going to start seeing time at safety it is Patrick Peterson.

In my personal opinion, he is A-Dub's successor.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If any corner is going to start seeing time at safety it is Patrick Peterson.
In my personal opinion, he is A-Dub's successor.

The day after the Cards find a better CB than PP.

 

[Chopper0080]

We will see how Toler does when contact starts in the fall, but one of the reasons I figured he would be a good fit in Horton's defense is because he reminds me of Ike Taylor. Taller corner with good speed who plays in a trail position.

 

[Zeno]

Toler wasn't a first year starter as he was a rookie in 2009 and played behind McFadden and DRC seeing action in 13 games starting none. Unless you meant it was his first year AS a starter.

But I agree your take on his abilities.

Yes first year as a starter is what I meant.

 

[Duckjake]

Merry Xmas!

That was awesome.

Still just remarkable that the Cards have beaten the Cowboys 3 straight because of a blocked punt recovered for a TD. A missed extra point the next game. And finally Dallas icing their own kicker so he misses a FG at the end last season.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010122500/2010/REG16/cowboys@cardinals#menu=highlights&tab=recap

Buehler? Buehler?

 

[Phrazbit]

"God awful" may have been an exaggeration but watching him I never felt like I was seeing a guy worthy of being a starter. For all the crap DRC gets on this board he was a far better cover corner than Toler was in 2010. I felt like Toler was always slow in reads and was consistently giving his man too much space for fear of being burned by a double move. His coverage did not seem to exist until AFTER his man had made a catch.

... and he has blown out his ACL since then.

I dont see "depth" in our corner situation. I have high hopes for Flemming but until he proves something I see desperation and a team giving themselves as many options as possible and hoping they can find a solution for a weakness.

 

[Duckjake]

"God awful" may have been an exaggeration but watching him I never felt like I was seeing a guy worthy of being a starter. For all the crap DRC gets on this board he was a far better cover corner than Toler was in 2010. I felt like Toler was always slow in reads and was consistently giving his man too much space for fear of being burned by a double move. His coverage did not seem to exist until AFTER his man had made a catch.

... and he has blown out his ACL since then.

I dont see "depth" in our corner situation. I have high hopes for Flemming but until he proves something I see desperation and a team giving themselves as many options as possible and hoping they can find a solution for a weakness.

You mean like being defensive MVP of back to back bowl games? Gay plays one side for about 6 games until Fleming takes over and then we have JF29 and PP21 as our starting CBs for the next 5 years.

Peterson, Gay, Toler, Fleming, Adams.... I don't see any desperation at all. Looks like a solid and deep crew to me.

 

[Phrazbit]

You mean like being defensive MVP of back to back bowl games? Gay plays one side for about 6 games until Fleming takes over and then we have JF29 and PP21 as our starting CBs for the next 5 years.

Peterson, Gay, Toler, Fleming, Adams.... I don't see any desperation at all. Looks like a solid and deep crew to me.

That is my hope. That Flemming is a solid player even as a rookie and quickly establishes himself as the 2nd best corner on the roster and I think he very well could. But the biggest reason I think he could is because of the lack of talent in front of him, not because of this perceived depth.

I've already expressed my thoughts on Toler; we know Adams cant play at the #2 corner slot and is basically a special teams player, I am weary of Gay, Steeler fans seemed thrilled to lose him and thats typically a very bad sign but I will keep an open mind about him. AJ Jefferson was awful.

I would be thrilled if one of that group of players could merely be adequate in the 2 slot next year.

 

[Duckjake]

That is my hope. That Flemming is a solid player even as a rookie and quickly establishes himself as the 2nd best corner on the roster and I think he very well could. But the biggest reason I think he could is because of the lack of talent in front of him, not because of this perceived depth.

I've already expressed my thoughts on Toler; we know Adams cant play at the #2 corner slot and is basically a special teams player, I am wary of Gay, Steeler fans seemed thrilled to lose him and thats typically a very bad sign but I will keep an open mind about him. AJ Jefferson was awful.

I would be thrilled if one of that group of players could merely be adequate in the 2 slot next year.

Probably a good idea. Considering that every player who leaves Arizona has numerous posters on this board saying they were thrilled to lose him regardless of the guys talent level. That's just the way fans are. With Peterson, Gay, and Fleming we should have 3 guys who can play the CB spots in Horton's D.

 

[52brandon]

According to profootball-reference.com DRC had almost twice as many pdf's as Toler 17 to 9.

But they both had INTs return for TDs against Dallas.

A game that had yet another come from behind 4th quarter drive led by Double Deuce featuring his 26 yard pass to the Alien on 4th and 15 with 1:17 to play!

lmao. So love for Skelton, a young guy from a small school that we took late that has only shown "upside". But none for Toler, who has almost the same resume

 

[Duckjake]

lmao. So love for Skelton, a young guy from a small school that we took late that has only shown "upside". But none for Toler, who has almost the same resume

Oh I've got plenty of props for Toler. I just don't think he's the reason that we were able to trade DRC for Kolb. That was getting Patrick Peterson at #5.

If you'll notice from some of the other posts I think we've got the best depth at CB we've had in years or maybe ever with PP21 and JF29 and GT28 and William Gay and Money Mike.

 

[52brandon]

Oh I've got plenty of props for Toler. I just don't think he's the reason that we were able to trade DRC for Kolb. That was getting Patrick Peterson at #5.

If you'll notice from some of the other posts I think we've got the best depth at CB we've had in years or maybe ever with PP21 and JF29 and GT28 and William Gay and Money Mike.

I don't think Money Mike will be around with how many guys we've got

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think Money Mike will be around with how many guys we've got

Could be but Money Mike has a lot of skins on the wall especially on special teams. However, Fleming is supposed to be a special teams ace and so maybe Adams lack of size catches up with him. I think the same thing happens to Marshay Green. Just too small for the NFL. Green had his two years and now needs to start thinking about life after football.

 

[Shane]

"God awful" may have been an exaggeration but watching him I never felt like I was seeing a guy worthy of being a starter. For all the crap DRC gets on this board he was a far better cover corner than Toler was in 2010. I felt like Toler was always slow in reads and was consistently giving his man too much space for fear of being burned by a double move. His coverage did not seem to exist until AFTER his man had made a catch.

... and he has blown out his ACL since then.

I dont see "depth" in our corner situation. I have high hopes for Flemming but until he proves something I see desperation and a team giving themselves as many options as possible and hoping they can find a solution for a weakness.

"god awful" describes DRC's 2010 season for the cards. He was beyond awful.

 

[JeffGollin]

I felt like Toler was always slow in reads and was consistently giving his man too much space for fear of being burned by a double move. His coverage did not seem to exist until AFTER his man had made a catch...I dont see "depth" in our corner situation...

Sounded more like McFadden than Toler.

Even without Flemming, CB opposite PP21 would include vets Gay, Toler & M Adams plus Bethel (who figures to be a CB/S swingman) with Nixon and Parker promising longshots and M Green (who's not totally without talent) also in the running. None of these guys may be surefire at this point, but I do think we're deep at the position.