Torey Lovullo's lack of respect for team chemistry is causing problems

[BC867]

They say that baseball is an individual sport . . . played in a team concept.

Torey's approach has failed! The D-backs have been inconsistent because he is inconsistent.

Who is our regular CF? Is it Dyson or 2B Marte? Who is our regular 3B now? Is it Escobar or is he our 2B? Is Lamb our 3B or 1B? Back and forth. That's four positions out of eight up in the air from game to game.

And, worst of all, because it affects the pitching staff, who is our regular catcher? Clearly Carson Kelly and Alex Avila are sharing that spot. IIRC, Lovullo played the first part of the season rotating three lead catchers. That is ridiculous!

If his haphazard approach worked, we'd be congratulating him. But, clearly, especially concerning the failures of the pitchers and their necessary chemistry with a lead catcher, it has failed.

And now, losing series to sub-par teams, it is worse than ever. Not only does it take Torey a long, long time to adjust to every situation, but his cockeyed approach to the game of baseball is a disaster.

It is disappointing to say, because Torey seems like a nice guy. Too nice, sometimes. But management needs to remove him before he does further damage.

He has, at the least, ruined our pitching staff. The starters are having problems, our closer is the latest pitcher to be demoted and most of the relievers have no set role. He even announced it.

 

[JerkFace]

I would agree with you on the surface, but it seems that every single season under Torrey they have exceeded expectations. They are frustrating because we start to expect more out of them because they tease us with being a good team. Maybe they are just a bad team and Torrey is squeezing every possible win out of them. Also, I think some of the things you brought up (3 catchers) are mandates from above Torrey’s head.

 

[BC867]

I would agree with you on the surface, but it seems that every single season under Torrey they have exceeded expectations. They are frustrating because we start to expect more out of them because they tease us with being a good team. Maybe they are just a bad team and Torrey is squeezing every possible win out of them. Also, I think some of the things you brought up (3 catchers) are mandates from above Torrey’s head.

Do you mean that it was a mandate to carry three catchers (which is the responsibility of the GM)
or to rotate three lead catchers, and now two (which is the responsibility of the Manager)?

If you think the latter, that stinks of the Robert Sarver-Phoenix Suns syndrome, where the owner/
Front Office oversaw the daily lineups for Jeff Hornacek (who was also too nice to succeed).

And, as far as having exceeded expectations so far, I am more concerned with what we are doing
right now (especially all of the demotions in the bullpen). It is coming apart! Look at the last two
series that we have lost to inferior teams.

 

[Azjose86]

I've said this before and my frustrations with his approach. He is too involved in the analytics and science behind it all, that he forgets to measure the intangibles of the game. A batter will be getting hot and benches him because it's a mandatory day off. Or a guy is struggling and he gives way too long of a rope. The guys can't get in any grooves because they are being moved around all over.

 

[GatorAZ]

Lineups are a joint effort between the coaches, front office, scouts, analytics etc... These days it’s a managers main job to manage personalities which TL seems to be adept at. The use of platoon players, starting rotations, bullpens, defensive alignments are all much different than the days of a manager going off his “gut”. The Kirk Gibson/Jim Leyland/Charlie Manuel/Tony La Russa/Bobby Valentine/Bobby Cox/Lou Piniella/Dusty Baker/Mike Scocia/Buck Showalter era is over. I would say Bruce Bochy is last old school skipper left.

 

[JerkFace]

Do you mean that it was a mandate to carry three catchers (which is the responsibility of the GM)
or to rotate three lead catchers, and now two (which is the responsibility of the Manager)?

If you think the latter, that stinks of the Robert Sarver-Phoenix Suns syndrome, where the owner/
Front Office oversaw the daily lineups for Jeff Hornacek (who was also too nice to succeed).

And, as far as having exceeded expectations so far, I am more concerned with what we are doing
right now (especially all of the demotions in the bullpen). It is coming apart! Look at the last two
series that we have lost to inferior teams.

I think that the front office is very heavy handed in a lot of the decisions. Even Torrey often refers to most decisions as a collaborate. What would be the purpose of having 3 catchers on the active roster if your not going to rotate them. It is a little different than the Suns/Sarver situation since Sarver is the owner as opposed to the GM. If you listen to pretty much any press conference, when they ask Torrey about pretty much any upcoming decisions he always answers that he has to huddle up with the people upstairs to come to a decision. I’m not a big fan of that kind of structure, but there is no doubt that is what is in place. And so far, it is hard to argue with the structure since we are remaining at least somewhat relevant even though on the inside we are performing a pretty significant overhaul to the skeleton, and future of the team.

 

[82CardsGrad]

They say that baseball is an individual sport . . . played in a team concept.

Torey's approach has failed! The D-backs have been inconsistent because he is inconsistent.

Who is our regular CF? Is it Dyson or 2B Marte? Who is our regular 3B now? Is it Escobar or is he our 2B? Is Lamb our 3B or 1B? Back and forth. That's four positions out of eight up in the air from game to game.

And, worst of all, because it affects the pitching staff, who is our regular catcher? Clearly Carson Kelly and Alex Avila are sharing that spot. IIRC, Lovullo played the first part of the season rotating three lead catchers. That is ridiculous!

If his haphazard approach worked, we'd be congratulating him. But, clearly, especially concerning the failures of the pitchers and their necessary chemistry with a lead catcher, it has failed.

And now, losing series to sub-par teams, it is worse than ever. Not only does it take Torey a long, long time to adjust to every situation, but his cockeyed approach to the game of baseball is a disaster.

It is disappointing to say, because Torey seems like a nice guy. Too nice, sometimes. But management needs to remove him before he does further damage.

He has, at the least, ruined our pitching staff. The starters are having problems, our closer is the latest pitcher to be demoted and most of the relievers have no set role. He even announced it.

LMAO... [emoji1787]

 

[BC867]

LMAO... [emoji1787]

Well, that makes a convincing retort.

Just a few minutes ago, Bob Brenly (a former Catcher and Manager) made the same comments as I posted about how having players rotating at the Catcher position hurts the pitching staff.

He doesn't consider it a laughing matter.

 

[AZ Native]

So you have resorted to quoting other people? That is a lazy argument. We are all giving our opinions, not just those of the booth. Tell us what you think with out quoting the booth and why. We all respect YOUR opinion

 

[BC867]

So you have resorted to quoting other people? That is a lazy argument. We are all giving our opinions, not just those of the booth. Tell us what you think with out quoting the booth and why. We all respect YOUR opinion

No need to refer to my post as lazy because I repeated the
opinion of a pro, made during the 8th or 9th inning tonight.

Why in the world would I not refer to an expert in the booth?
Bob Brenly is hardly "other people".

If you don't consider that to be meaningful, there is nothing
more to discuss. Why do they have color commentators and
post-game interviews with the manager? To gain insight.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, that makes a convincing retort.

Just a few minutes ago, Bob Brenly (a former Catcher and Manager) made the same comments as I posted about how having players rotating at the Catcher position hurts the pitching staff.

He doesn't consider it a laughing matter.

I can't with you... Appreciate your passion. But I've grown exhausted from your never-ending attacks of all managers. You never, ever place blame on the player... It's always the managers and coaches who are failing.
Your consistent lack of objectivity destroys any credibility you hope to convey.
Here's a fact - whether you choose to accept it is obviously your choice... but, the fact is that Torey and Hazen are widely respected throughout the game of baseball. Further, the record/results they have achieved thus far in their very early tenure with the Dbacks, is likewise, widely respected throughout the game of baseball. In fact, many believe that what they have done thus has largely been extremely strategic and highly conducive toward the establishment of sustained success for this franchise.

As for the point you seem to be zeroing in on now... rotation of catchers: 1.) The Dbacks don't have a catcher who can (Avila) be counted on to be a reliable, every day catcher as his bat is far from being up to snuff, or, 2.) a catcher (Kelly), who, prior to this season had appeared in a whopping total of 63 major league games. Torey and management are 100% spot-on in bringing him along in a managed, pragmatic manner versus putting him behind the plate in every game.

Torey and Hazen are known to be guys who, as good as any other GM/Manager tandem in the game, master the use of analytics that are tempered with old-school, gut-feel...

 

[AZ Native]

No need to refer to my post as lazy because I repeated the
opinion of a pro, made during the 8th or 9th inning tonight.

Why in the world would I not refer to an expert in the booth?
Bob Brenly is hardly "other people".

If you don't consider that to be meaningful, there is nothing
more to discuss. Why do they have color commentators and
post-game interviews with the manager? To gain insight.

Again, I heard the booth response. What do YOU think? Ivan hear the experts on my own.

 

[BC867]

Again, I heard the booth response. What do YOU think? Ivan hear the experts on my own.

Hey, man. You know damn well what I think. I added that Bob Brenly thinks the same.

I like Torey's honesty with the Press and, if he were my next door neighbor, his personality.

As I've posted billions of times I don't like what has become his management style.

Four or five starting players constantly playing out of position. Two or three lead Catchers.

Chaos does not lead to consistency in winning. One day we look like the best and the next
day like the worst. And, as various posters have written, he is way too slow to react to
situations. A manager who cannot think on the fly is a limited manager.

 

[AZ Native]

But Torey has exceeded expectations. We are not the Dodgers and every team ahead of us has a superior roster. It is a fact. He has done well with what he has been given. We are at best a mediocre team. Look at the lineups. We are fortunate to be where we are.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Four or five starting players constantly playing out of position.

The Dbacks rank THIRD - as in 3rd, in all of the majors, in Fielding %!

Two or three lead Catchers. Chaos does not lead to consistency in winning. One day we look like the best and the next
day like the worst.

The Dbacks have played 109 games. Carson Kelly has played in 73. Alex Avila has played in 36.
What's your point again??

 

[BC867]

The Dbacks have played 109 games. Carson Kelly has played in 73. Alex Avila has played in 36.
What's your point again??

Well, I am referring to our starting Catcher, rather than how many games they have played.
I have searched every site available, but none show games started by position players.

Since the D-backs dropped the 3-starting Catcher rotation and with only two Catchers on
the roster, and they have both been healthy, Kelly and Avila have been splitting starts
almost evenly. That is the current status, the only one that really matters.

I would rather see Kelly as the primary Catcher and Avila as his backup. They are pretty
even as receivers, but Kelly is clearly the better, and more consistent, hitter. And he
has handled it well despite his being younger.

The only stat where Avila stands out is on-base-percent, because he is taking his walks
batting in front of the pitcher. Whereas it seems that Kelly has been able to make things
happen much more in that situation and is, therefore, more of a difference maker.

I'd rate Kelly right now in the group right behind Marte, Escobar (and a healthy Peralta)
as the top "clutch" hitters on the team.

My opinion about that fits my preference for consistent Catcher roles to settle down the
recent ongoing pitcher demotions. As Bob Brenly alluded to as Fox color commentator.

Remember, the announcers do not work for the D-backs. They work for the network.
They are free to speak their minds on the air. Just as we are here.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I am referring to our starting Catcher, rather than how many games they have played.
I have searched every site available, but none show games started by position players.

Since the D-backs dropped the 3-starting Catcher rotation and with only two Catchers on
the roster, and they have both been healthy, Kelly and Avila have been splitting starts
almost evenly. That is the current status, the only one that really matters.

I would rather see Kelly as the primary Catcher and Avila as his backup. They are pretty
even as receivers, but Kelly is clearly the better, and more consistent, hitter. And he
has handled it well despite his being younger.

The only stat where Avila stands out is on-base-percent, because he is taking his walks
batting in front of the pitcher. Whereas it seems that Kelly has been able to make things
happen much more in that situation and is, therefore, more of a difference maker.

I'd rate Kelly right now in the group right behind Marte, Escobar (and a healthy Peralta)
as the top "clutch" hitters on the team.

My opinion about that fits my preference for consistent Catcher roles to settle down the
recent ongoing pitcher demotions. As Bob Brenly alluded to as Fox color commentator.

Remember, the announcers do not work for the D-backs. They work for the network.
They are free to speak their minds on the air. Just as we are here.

I leave you with this... cuz, I just can't with you...

Plate Appearances:

Avila - 119
Kelly - 235

So Kelly has DOUBLE the amount of plate appearances as does Avila.
But yea... Torey's clueless...

 

[BC867]

I leave you with this... cuz, I just can't with you...

Plate Appearances:

Avila - 119
Kelly - 235

So Kelly has DOUBLE the amount of plate appearances as does Avila.
But yea... Torey's clueless...

The answer is so obvious, but you seem to refuse to acknowledge it.

Since when do you evaluate a player based on plate appearances?

Why has Torey been starting them about 50/50 now that the
younger Kelly has proven himself?

You're talking about the past and I'm talking about now.

Especially considering Avila's anemic batting average.

And the lack of consistency with the pitching staff that they handle.

Evidently because of Torey's major shortcoming -- it takes him a
long, long time to react to situations. He has said so himself on
post-game interviews, but keeps on doing it.

This isn't about winning a debate on a fans' board. It's about our
D-backs improving rather than falling backward.

 

[AZCB34]

I leave you with this... cuz, I just can't with you...

Plate Appearances:

Avila - 119
Kelly - 235

So Kelly has DOUBLE the amount of plate appearances as does Avila.
But yea... Torey's clueless...

Not to prolong the discussion but how many games did Avila miss with injury and what was the ramification to Kelly's starts and plate appearances?

 

[WildBB]

But Torey has exceeded expectations. We are not the Dodgers and every team ahead of us has a superior roster. It is a fact. He has done well with what he has been given. We are at best a mediocre team. Look at the lineups. We are fortunate to be where we are.

Yeah aside from Marte, Escobar the lineup is average to underperforming. Kelly has been a nice addition here however, and Walker a surprise but has stranded too many.

The pen has blown numerous games as well. This team needs a legit closer next season.