trade proposal (Warriors)

[elindholm]

According to hoopshype.com,

Golden State and Seattle have a plethora of big men, creating trade speculation. Reportedly, the Warriors are willing to part with Erick Dampier or Adonal Foyle.

Of those two, Foyle is more attractive, since he's quicker, he makes less money, and his contract is up this year. It would be great to get Foyle, but I don't see what the Suns could offer that could possibly make sense.

But maybe the Suns could make a play for Dampier?

Phoenix gets

Erick Dampier ($7,842,000, 2006)
Bob Sura ($6,166,667, 2004)

Golden State gets

Anfernee Hardaway ($13,500,000, 2006)
Jake Tsakalidis ($1,580,702, 2004)

I think the Warriors would consider this trade. Both Hardaway and Dampier were healthy last season after struggling through injuries for a few years. The Warriors' backcourt is thin, and Hardaway's ability to cover both guard positions (at least on offense) could provide them with some essential flexibility.

It would be difficult to part with Tsakalidis right when he's starting to look (somewhat) alive in the summer leagues, but the Warriors need some incentive to take on Hardaway's contract. Sura is included to make the numbers fit, but he should be able to provide 15-20 competent minutes per game (provided he stays healthy) and is gone after this season anyway.

 

[Chaplin]

So you're willing to give the backup SG position exclusively to Casey Jacobsen? That's a surprise. (I'm not including Sura because 1) he's no good and 2) he's gone after a year)

 

[slinslin]

Bob Sura is better than Casey Jacobsen.

He is a very good defender, provide lots of energy, is very quick, always moving and looked good against the Suns.

Plus the deal is pretty damn good from a salary standpoint as we could easily sign a better backup guard or draft one next year when Sura and Googs are gone.

I don't know how well Dampier would work together with Amare.

I would likely rather have Dampier on the Suns than Foyle because while still being good defensively he is bigger than Foyle, not even a year older and offensively more potent while Foyle is a better shot blocker if you trust the boxscores.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't know man, unless the Suns could sign a decent shooting guard, like Jon Berry for example, I wouldn't do that. Sure, Jacobsen aand Johnson would constitute one of the weakest shooting guard tag- teams in the league.

Keep Penny!

 

[elindholm]

Given the strengths of the current Suns squad, would you rather have one of the weakest SG rotations, or one of the weakest C rotations?

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not sure what they have, but I would think a team like Dallas or New York would give Golden State a better deal for Dampier. I guess I just have a hard time believing Golden State would make this deal.

Joe Mama

 

[SirStefan32]

I personally believe that it is necessary to have an excellent Center rotation, even if you already have a top-5 PF.

Frankie is going to play Bo and/ or Zarko alongside Amare most of the time anyways. It is irrelavant who sits on the bench- Tsakalidis and Williams or Foyle or anybody. Centers are not goign to see a lot of PT.

I don't know, if Frankie would let Tsakalidis and Voskhul play 20 minutes each, maybe they wouldn't be as bad as they seem now.

Suns are doing great on PG- Marbury/ Barbosa/ Hardaway, arguably the best PG tag team in the league.

They are set on the PF spot as well- Amare is already among top 10, maybe even 5 PF's. Outlaw and Cabarkapa will be adequate back- ups.

Marion is an all star SF. There are also Hardaway, Johnson and Cabarkapa who can play the 3.

Healthy Hardaway is one of the best role players you can have, he is a perfect fourth option who can also take over the game from time to time. JJ is a good back up. CJ sucks.

Then you have Voskhul, whom I really like. If it was up to me, he'd be starting and playing 25- 30 minutes. Then you have Scott Williams who is a good vet, but simply can not play extended minutes. Jake Tsakalidis, perhaps the biggest stiff in the league- doesn't get any PT.

I guess what I am saying is that I would rather have one Achili's heel (Center) than two (Center and SG).

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I'm not sure what they have, but I would think a team like Dallas or New York would give Golden State a better deal for Dampier. I guess I just have a hard time believing Golden State would make this deal.

Joe Mama

It looks like Riley is trying to make a deal with Cuban involving Brian Grant. As far as NY goes, they really don't have much to offer except the rookies.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
Given the strengths of the current Suns squad, would you rather have one of the weakest SG rotations, or one of the weakest C rotations?

The weakest SG rotations.
That's why I would do this trade.

But GSW wouldn't.
Their backcourt is maybe thin because they don't have a starting caliber PG.But we all now that Penny is NOT a PG.
As a shooting guard Penny would increase their actual big logjam at SG.Richardson, Dunleavy,Pietrus and Welsch all want PT and since Jamison will take at least 35 mins at SF it stays only 60 mins/game for those four talented young swingmen.

In other words no way that GSW would trade for Penny.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't know hcsilla, I usually agree with you, but I disagree that Penny is NOT a PG. He always prefered playing the point over playing the off guard. He always loved to have the ball in his hands.

I think he would be a perfect point guard for a team like GSW.

Yes, he would have trouble guarding PG's. However, maybe he could guard 2's with somebody else guarding the point. He really knows how to use his lenght when guarding smaller guard, but the problem is that he tries to help other people too much.

Also, he could take advantage of PG's on the other side of the floor. There is not a single point guard who can guard Penny in the low post, and if you double team, he's gonna find the open man.

The real reason GSW would not do this is simply the fact that Hardaway is a disaster waiting to happen. Sure, he put two semi- healthy seasons together, but he still has around $40M on his contract, and that is a huge risk to take.

 

[hcsilla]

I agree that Penny is still a skilled, smart and talented player but he completely lost his explosiveness.
You can't run a team offense in today's NBA if you are a below average athlete.
Could you name a slower PG in NBA than Penny except Mark Jackson who will retire soon?
Even the 40-year old John Stockton (who was never the biggest athlete of the world) would finish the from line to line fastbreak while Penny would just cross the half-court.I just don't see Penny as a starting PG.

If he would be then someone maybe would take a risk on him (even with his terrible contract) because a lot of teams are looking for a starter quality PG.

 

[elindholm]

Could you name a slower PG in NBA than Penny

Scottie Pippen comes close, and he played PG quite effectively last season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Could you name a slower point guard than Magic Johnson?

The trick is taking advantage of the smaller player on the other side of the floor.

 

[Errntknght]

If I'm not mistaken GS signed Speedy Claxton for their PG, so Penny would be his backup. I'm sure they'd like to shed Sura's salary but not at the expense of Penny's, which is twice as much and three times as long. They'd have to be completely in love with Big Jake to even consider this trade.

To tell the truth I can't see any team that is more in need of Penny than the Suns because FJ's sorry offensive scheme comes creaking to a halt whenever he isn't on the floor. JJ is useful when his shot is falling but I don't recall him making significant strides as far as helping run the overall offense. Hopefully, that will come in time... soon even. Maybe if he starts shooting consistenly that will free up his mind to think about running the offense.

My first choice for fixing things would be to get rid of Frankie but that doesn't appear to be in the cards so I'm casting around for improvements in his offense. If Zardo can defend at 4 or 5 and keep his turnovers down and Googs stays healthy we'd have two guys for the frontcourt that can pass well. I don't think they'd do well together but with one or the other on floor it might improve things to the point that JJ would be effective in place of Penny. Of course, we should start running more of the offense through Amare, meaning that he is expected to pass a fair amount, but FJ showed no sign of thinking in that direction last year so I'm not holding my breath. Given time enough, Amare and teammates will probably start doing that without Frankie's help, I suppose.

 

[fordronken]

Here is a trade option that operates along the same lines as that one. The difference, however, is we take on a little more salary in the long run, but get, I think, better players.


Phonex trades:
Tom Gugliotta, Casey Jacobsen and next year's first rounder(lottery protected)
Memphis trades:
Lorenzen Wright and Wesley Person.


This gives Jerry West more cap space to make his move for Kobe next offseason(or, I suppose, Garnett) and another draft pick. The Suns meanwhile, get a shooting guard who can actually shoot(and whose salary comes off the books next summer) and a huge upgrade at center over the carousel we had last year. They also don't have to pay a first rounder next season, only to put him on an already youth overcrowded bench.

 

[elindholm]

Tom Gugliotta, Casey Jacobsen and next year's first rounder(lottery protected)
Memphis trades:
Lorenzen Wright and Wesley Person.

I thought of Wright/Person combinations also, but in this case, I don't like that trade for the Suns. Wright isn't much of an upgrade over what the Suns presently have (I like him less than Dampier), and the Suns' salary situation would get worse in 2004-05, not better.

 

[Joe Mama]

I really don't think there is any chance of the Phoenix Suns trading Tom Gugliotta unless we are creeping up on the trading deadline and it looks like they have a legitimate chance at a championship. Even then I don't think it's very likely.

I don't like Lorenzen Wright much either. I mean he would be a nice upgrade at Center, but he's undersized and often injured.

Joe Mama