Trading Up to Get Suggs

[Walter Mitchell]

The Bengals apparently are starting to consider negotiating with QB Carson Palmer and/or QB Byron Leftwich...and are also enamored with Kyle Boller. This is surprising because Suggs, Kennedy and Newman would seem to be enticing choices for a defensive guru like Marvin Lewis. If the Bengals do tab Palmer or Leftwich, the big question becomes, will the Lions stick to their reported game plan of drafting local icon WR Charles Rogers or shift their attention to Suggs? To trade up to the #2 spot the Cardinals would have to offer either this year's #6 and #37 picks...or the #6 this year and their next year's #1. I would prefer the first option seeing as if the Cardinals continue to struggle this year WR Roy Williams will head next year's class of WRs.

If the Bengals tab Palmer and the Lions tab Rogers as expected, the Cardinals could very well move up to the #3 spot by offering LT L.J. Shelton and the #6 pick. The Texans would be solving their most immediate need (OT) and be in a position to draft WR Andre Johnson, the player they would be tempted to take at #3 if they were to stay put anyway. The question is, would it be worth it for the Cardinals to trade Shelton to get the most talented pass rusher in the draft? We have debated the potential trading of Shelton, so we don't really need to continue that debate...but, if the Cardinals want Suggs they will have to trade up to #3 at the very least because there is no way Suggs gets past the Bears at #4. The Texans at #3 have a plethora of draft picks once again, so they won't want to trade down for draft picks...which is why the only scenario in which they would trade down with the Cardinals would be if the Cardinals offered Shelton. In fact, the Cardinals might be able to add a mid-round pick in the deal since the Texans have so many picks. Shelton and the #6 for the #3 (Suggs) and a 5th round pick. What are your thoughts?

 

[Ryanwb]

I think it is about time for the Cardians to take a chance! Look what Peppers did for Carolina last year, Suggs could be do the same thing here in Arizona. What is our draft picks worth when the players we are drafting aren't panning out anyway, go after a sure thing.

 

[red desert]

I'm all for moving up, but I'd rather give up next year's number one and give it to Cininnati for the number one pick overall. We could then draft Suggs or Rogers, whichever will agree to a contract before the draft. Either player it worth drafting in the number one spot and fills a huge need for us.

 

[SECTION 11]

I'd hate to see us break up the 'stregnth' of this team, but considering that Big should be playing LT anyway, and that Graves mentioned playing Shelton at guard, he might be willing to pursue that.

I'd be very surprised to see Cincy drafting at #1 when it's all said and done. But will they be able to trade down without losing value?

If they are able to make a trade, I would not be surprised at this point for Suggs to go #1 overall because the QB positions seem to have fallen into place to a certain extent.

 

[seesred]

I would trade this years number and a lower round plus a lower round next year for the rights to Suggs. IMO he is a game changer. He is difference maker. Send the Cards E-mails and push for Suggs.

GBR

 

[Northern Card]

Some are seeing up and others are looking down

Cardinals | Could Move Down? - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
11:28 PT: Len Pasquarelli reports for ESPN.com the Arizona Cardinals, in their search for quantity over quality, are trying to deal back from their current No. 6 spot in the first round of the April NFL Draft. If Arizona State DE Terrell Suggs were available at that slot they may stay put

 

[Northern Card]

From the Spoting News - Dan Pompei

The Texans are counting on a big comeback by LT Tony Boselli. In fact, they are saving $4 million in cap space for Boselli, which will count only if Boselli is able to return from the shoulder injuries that prevented him from playing for most of the last two seasons.

Boselli has been lifting since January and is making consistent gains in both strength and range of motion. Four doctors have told the Texans that Boselli should be ready to go at the start of training camp. Boselli, who turns 31 next month, might not be the most dominant offensive lineman in football any longer, but he still should be very good. Even while practicing with one arm last season, he was able to pancake Cowboys DL Willie Blade. .

 

[MadCardDisease]

No way you trade a young proven player like Shelton and the #6 overall pick to take an unproven rookie like Suggs. It's just not worth it. I say stay at #6 and take the best player available.

 

[BIGDADDY_REDBIRD]

It would be nice to have a player whom offensive Coordinators would actually have to game plan around. Suggs is a must have. This kid can't even buy a beer yet (Not that we'd want him to) 20 yrs old... This man could make us all extremely happy for at least the next 12-15 years. The way I see it Suggs instantly makes every player on the defense better. If Suggs brings it off the edge, it will increase our DT sack totals as QB's step up in the pocket to avoid his pressure. DB's won't have to cover WR's for 5 plus seconds every passing play. LB's can stay in coverage, since we won't have to blitz as often. (not that we we're successful at it anyway Do what ever it takes to Land him. if that means trading with cincy, detroit,houston, damn it do it!!!...let em have the damn thing

 

[Tangodnzr]

No Way Jose.
Suggs MAY be good, but he isn't going to make THAT much difference.
I totally agree with MadCardDisease. He just isn't worth it. And HE IS STILL UNPROVEN AS A PRO...THERE IS NO SURE THING IN THE COLLEGE DRAFT!!!!!
The Cards should stay where they are, or if any trade at all, trade DOWN, not up.
And I say, if we truely want a difference maker, then look to Kenndy or Robertson.

 

[Skkorpion]

Any thread that starts with talking about trading a good starting LT just entering his prime ....

 

[BIGDADDY_REDBIRD]

I guess I should have clarified that last post!!! I would be against trading LJ considering what happened to our o-line last year. As far as the Suggs thing...... He'll lose that un- proven title the first time he takes the field in the NFL... HE MAY NOT BE THAT GOOD NOW..... (20 YRS OLD) BUT GIVE HIM A YEAR OR TWO....iF WE DON'T TAKE HIM WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!!!!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
No Way Jose.
Suggs MAY be good, but he isn't going to make THAT much difference.
I totally agree with MadCardDisease. He just isn't worth it. And HE IS STILL UNPROVEN AS A PRO...THERE IS NO SURE THING IN THE COLLEGE DRAFT!!!!!
The Cards should stay where they are, or if any trade at all, trade DOWN, not up.
And I say, if we truely want a difference maker, then look to Kenndy or Robertson.

Sorry Tango but just how do you consider Kennedy or Robertson to be such locks as difference makers? Yet you think the most dominant defensive player in college football is a HUGE ??????

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H
Sorry Tango but just how do you consider Kennedy or Robertson to be such locks as difference makers? Yet you think the most dominant defensive player in college football is a HUGE ??????

The reason I say it has less to do with the pure individual talent of the players involved than it does with how what they are fits in with the needs of the team.
It is my opinion that the pass rush will be improved over last year regardless of what happens.
I just think that getting a top level and effective DT will help this team more than a fast edge rushing DE.
A fast edge rusher doesn't affect the other players on the DL as much as a good DT does.
Case in point..."Simian" Rice here. I would venture to say, even though it is an over simplification, that Warren Sapp makes Simian Rice and the rest of the team better, more than Simian does.

 

[mdsisquo]

Guys, Suggs will be there at #6. All these other teams are playing like they are interested in Suggs so Teams like us will feel the heat and try to trade down. That way the other team still ends up with the player they wanted all along and they get additional draft picks. All cause they blew a bunch of smoke up our arsses. Wait and see, we'll get Suggs at 6. All they other teams are bluffing.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

We have Suggs way too over rated on this board, he is a great pass-rusher and I want him very bad, but he will be there at 6, I would bet money on it. He is too one deminsional to go in the top 5. Small guys like Sapp, Kearse, Freeney, Abraham, W Bryant and many more, do not go high in the draft, while guys like Peppers, J Smith, C Brown, that play the run as well as pass rush leap frog up the board. It would be unlikely for the Cards to move up to land Suggs. Suggs is a 6-13 guy, not top 5. Look for Leftwich to fall to #3 QB selected as well. Its very possible that both will be there when the Cards select.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by DevonCardsFan
We have Suggs way too over rated on this board, he is a great pass-rusher and I want him very bad, but he will be there at 6, I would bet money on it. He is too one deminsional to go in the top 5. Small guys like Sapp, Kearse, Freeney, Abraham, W Bryant and many more, do not go high in the draft, while guys like Peppers, J Smith, C Brown, that play the run as well as pass rush leap frog up the board. It would be unlikely for the Cards to move up to land Suggs. Suggs is a 6-13 guy, not top 5. Look for Leftwich to fall to #3 QB selected as well. Its very possible that both will be there when the Cards select.

One dimensional? Did you see him stopping the run on the other side of the field in the Holiday Bowl?

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
The reason I say it has less to do with the pure individual talent of the players involved than it does with how what they are fits in with the needs of the team.
It is my opinion that the pass rush will be improved over last year regardless of what happens.
I just think that getting a top level and effective DT will help this team more than a fast edge rushing DE.
A fast edge rusher doesn't affect the other players on the DL as much as a good DT does.
Case in point..."Simian" Rice here. I would venture to say, even though it is an over simplification, that Warren Sapp makes Simian Rice and the rest of the team better, more than Simian does.

Tango,

Simeon has gotten his sacks regardless of eho he plays next to. Granted it has been even better when you have Sapp next to you but the guy was still a sack machine and a monster at putting pressure on the QB!

Also we all thought that through experience the pass rush would get better last year no matter what we did as well and that adding a supposed dominant DT in Byant would be a huge boost. Well we all know where that got us? In fact I think our pass rush was worse overall.

Sorry I just feel that the most pressure on a QB is going to be applied form the edge not the middle!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
The reason I say it has less to do with the pure individual talent of the players involved than it does with how what they are fits in with the needs of the team.
It is my opinion that the pass rush will be improved over last year regardless of what happens.
I just think that getting a top level and effective DT will help this team more than a fast edge rushing DE.
A fast edge rusher doesn't affect the other players on the DL as much as a good DT does.
Case in point..."Simian" Rice here. I would venture to say, even though it is an over simplification, that Warren Sapp makes Simian Rice and the rest of the team better, more than Simian does.

Hmmm....that's why the Bucs have just given Rice a 20 million dollar (new NFL record) signing bonus that will probably prevent them from resigning Sapp...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H

Sorry I just feel that the most pressure on a QB is going to be applied form the edge not the middle!

Very simple NFL fact....it is easier to get pressure from the outside, but harder to find guys that are capable of doing it at a high level.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
One dimensional? Did you see him stopping the run on the other side of the field in the Holiday Bowl?

I agree Krang. Not to mention he not only broke the NCAA record for sacks but he also led the NCAA in tackles for a loss over 30 in fact. That is far from one dimensional! I believe he also led the NCAA in forced fumbles!

The guy is a complete player and sorry Devon but he is top 5!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Hmmm....that's why the Bucs have just given Rice a 20 million dollar (new NFL record) signing bonus that will probably prevent them from resigning Sapp...

Time will tell....is it Mac who said...We shall see.

Simeon got his sacks here, but that didn't help the team.
Are you going to tell me with a straight face that Simian's coming to Tampa improved the play of the other linemen?
I think not.
Yes he made the team better because he improved "his" element of the game, but he didn't raise the level of the other players. They didn't become more effective because he was now there. They were already doing that.
His great pass rush did diddly squat in helping the other players on the Cards team.

I'll believe the day the Bucs keep Simian and that means they cut Sapp..... when I see it, I don't care what appearances may seem to you in the interim.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Time will tell....is it Mac who said...We shall see.

Simeon got his sacks here, but that didn't help the team.
Are you going to tell me with a straight face that Simian's coming to Tampa improved the play of the other linemen?
I think not.
Yes he made the team better because he improved "his" element of the game, but he didn't raise the level of the other players. They didn't become more effective because he was now there. They were already doing that.
His great pass rush did diddly squat in helping the other players on the Cards team.

I'll believe the day the Bucs keep Simian and that means they cut Sapp..... when I see it, I don't care what appearances may seem to you in the interim.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Yes I will tell you that Simeon improved the other lineman. He is just another guy that the offense is forced to block and they will pay if they don't.

Who cares what you don't buy. Sapp is very overrated, and he is getting old....he will also command a salary in excess of six million and Tampa won't be able to afford it.

 

[ajcardfan]

No matter the position, what you really need to win games are playmakers. Big plays. What does our defense really lack? We lack guys who create turnovers and kill drives with sacks. Most starting DT's are good for 3-4 sacks a year, a DT is kicking rear if he gets 8 or above. DE's can produce a LOT more big plays, because that is the nature of the position. All other things equal, I pick a great DE over a great DT everytime because they more often change the flow of a game.

Teams that pass on Suggs in the top 5 are just plain stupid IMO. If WE passed on Suggs to draft one of the DT's or Leftwich, it'd probably frickin' kill me. I know there's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft, but, to me, Suggs is the best player. And I thought that before the end of last season, before all the draft guys talked him up. At that time, I talked about trading down to get him, since the early mocks had him mid to late first round.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
No matter the position, what you really need to win games are playmakers. Big plays. What does our defense really lack? We lack guys who create turnovers and kill drives with sacks. Most starting DT's are good for 3-4 sacks a year, a DT is kicking rear if he gets 8 or above. DE's can produce a LOT more big plays, because that is the nature of the position. All other things equal, I pick a great DE over a great DT everytime because they more often change the flow of a game.

Teams that pass on Suggs in the top 5 are just plain stupid IMO. If WE passed on Suggs to draft one of the DT's or Leftwich, it'd probably frickin' kill me. I know there's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft, but, to me, Suggs is the best player. And I thought that before the end of last season, before all the draft guys talked him up. At that time, I talked about trading down to get him, since the early mocks had him mid to late first round.

I agree 100%.