U of A fans - where do you think your program stacks up nationally?

[Dback Jon]

No smack, just want to gauge how U of A FANS percieve their basketball program.

Me?

I think there are four schools that stand above all the rest: UCLA, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky (in no particular order).

Below that, in no particular order, I would put:
Arizona, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan State, UConn, Louisville, Ohio State, Indiana and Duke

Thoughts?

 

[Gee!]

No smack, just want to gauge how U of A FANS percieve their basketball program.

Me?

I think there are four schools that stand above all the rest: UCLA, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky (in no particular order).

Below that, in no particular order, I would put:
Arizona, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan State, UConn, Louisville, Ohio State, Indiana and Duke

Thoughts?

Indiana hasnt done jack in years.. Oklahoma isnt up there.. Ohio State is sparatic.. Texas is the same as OSU.. The rest of it I guess I can kinda agree with..

 

[82CardsGrad]

No Gonzaga? Xavier? I also think Duke (as much as it pains me) should be in the top portion of your list, and Syracuse & Nova should/could be added to the bottom portion...

 

[Dback Jon]

No Gonzaga? Xavier? I also think Duke (as much as it pains me) should be in the top portion of your list, and Syracuse & Nova should/could be added to the bottom portion...

Duke has slipped, and being a private school, with tougher admissions, I don't think they can ever be in the top 5.

Gonzaga and Xavier are third tier still (along with schools like Pitt, Cincy, etc).

I almost did a third tier, was considering Syracuse and Villanova in the second tier, but decided against that. I could easily see the argument for both.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Duke has slipped, and being a private school, with tougher admissions, I don't think they can ever be in the top 5.

Gonzaga and Xavier are third tier still (along with schools like Pitt, Cincy, etc).

I almost did a third tier, was considering Syracuse and Villanova in the second tier, but decided against that. I could easily see the argument for both.

I really wouldn't put Pitt and Cincy up on the same level as Gonzaga and Xavier, but that's just me.

As for Duke... 3 Nat'l Championships... 14 Final Fours... 11 Players of the Year. 71 NBA draftees. Tied with UNC with 17 ACC Championships.
For me, this is easily worthy of top billing!

 

[Hazzard29]

Id put Duke and UConn up with the top teir teams. Ohio St, Oklahoma, and Texas Id take out of the the next level and Id add Syracuse... other than that the list looks good.

 

[Skkorpion]

Agree with your top 4 Jon: NC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA. Those are the blue bloods.

All the rest are more transient, rising and falling. UConn is a one coach pony, just like UA. Once Calhoun is gone, they will slip.

 

[Russ Smith]

Duke has slipped, and being a private school, with tougher admissions, I don't think they can ever be in the top 5.

Gonzaga and Xavier are third tier still (along with schools like Pitt, Cincy, etc).

I almost did a third tier, was considering Syracuse and Villanova in the second tier, but decided against that. I could easily see the argument for both.

If Duke has slipped then why have UK in the top 4? UK hasn't been a contender for about as long as Duke hasn't.

People overstate the Duke admissions standards. Duke recruited John Riek last year and tried desperately to get in on John wall this year. They're perfectly willing to recruit one and dones(Wall) or guys who nobody knows their real age or academic year(Riek). the main reason Duke has slipped IMHO is their recruiting has slipped, they've "missed" on a lot more guys. they're still bringing in McD's AA's all the time but the ratgion of legit ones to ones who made it because they signed with Duke has changed. Way too many Boateng, Taylor King, Jamal Boykin, Greg Paulus type kids who haven't panned out for them in recent years has caused them to slip. Remember alot of people think that guys jumping early to the NBA is supposed to help a team like Duke that has real student athletes who're less likely to leave early but it hasn't because they've missed on too many evaluatons.

 

[schutd]

Id clean slate AZ. They are starting from scratch next year. Their history dictates that the curve back to prominence might not be a large one, but I dont know how anyone could effectively rank the wildcats. No coach, no recruits, top 3 players, (if they know whats good for em) will be leaving.

How do you rank that program? It barely registers as a program.

None the less, BEAR DOWN.

 

[Goran Stoudemire]

A top 10 program and the 2nd best out West.

North Carolina
UCLA
Kentucky
Kansas
Duke
Arizona
Indiana
Syracuse
Uconn
Michigan St

Top 4 are in order, rest are not.

 

[Dback Jon]

I understand the Duke top tier arguments. And they do have a great history (no where near the other 4, IMHO, though). If nothing else, they would be #5.

Kentucky has won national titles under four different coaches. That alone puts it in elite territory.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Id clean slate AZ. They are starting from scratch next year. Their history dictates that the curve back to prominence might not be a large one, but I dont know how anyone could effectively rank the wildcats. No coach, no recruits, top 3 players, (if they know whats good for em) will be leaving.

How do you rank that program? It barely registers as a program.

None the less, BEAR DOWN.

Geez did you just walk out of a cave at the beginning of 09.

The OP is asking where this program stands nationally in the eyes of others. "one trick coach" or not (as if thats relevant) In my life and the modern college basketball world (starting around 78/79 with Magic and Larry) I would say Dback John is spoit on and I would like to thank someone on this site with no tie to the UA for not talking out of his azz and realizing the amount of national respect this program has recieved over the last 25 years. One of the top 10 in modern history no doubt and there are numerous national stories stating the same thing.

I think it goes UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA as the upper crust.

and then the second tier of UCONN, UA, Mich State, Syracuse, and Indiana. Maybe Georgetown. Florida in a few more years for sure.

As for the other mentioned (LOL Gonzaga and Xavier- I only age 27 but lets have a little perspective) they are inthe third tier like Louisville, Pitt, Marquette, Cincinatti etc.

 

[Russ Smith]

THe irony here is I think today in 2009 Memphis belongs on that list and very high which is why I can't fathom Calipari leaving for anywhere.

The last 2 years he's landed Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans, now he has Henry, Cousins, Dennis, and probably Wall in the same class. If you look forward you'll see much of the top prospects in the 2010 and 11 class have Memphis on their list. he's won 30 games what 4 years in a row?

It's not a BCS school in a big conference but in today's college basketball Memphis is an elite program, they have reached the point of teams that reload not rebuild.

next year will be interesting in the Pac 10 the whole conference could be down even more. UA figures to lose Budinger and Hill. USC is looking at losing Derozan, Gibson and Hackett(they have a nice recruiting class plus Alex Stepheson), UCLA loses 3 senior starters and will have 9-10 guys who are freshmen or sophs(depending on Holiday). UW loses Brockman and Dentmon.
ASU loses Pendergraph and probably Harden.

I had Cal pegged as possibly the preseason favorite but now Theo Robertson is having surgery on his other hip and might be out again.

Who knows who's going to win the Pac 10 next year, could be a crazy year. really the team who gets the most surprises in kids not leaving, will probably win it.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Above all the rest: UCLA, Kansas, North Carolina, and UConn (in no order).

Next, I would put:
Arizona, Michigan State, Kentucky, Syracuse, Louisville, Florida, Gonzaga, Memphis, and Duke (In no order)

That's based mostly on recent success.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

THe irony here is I think today in 2009 Memphis belongs on that list and very high which is why I can't fathom Calipari leaving for anywhere.

The last 2 years he's landed Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans, now he has Henry, Cousins, Dennis, and probably Wall in the same class. If you look forward you'll see much of the top prospects in the 2010 and 11 class have Memphis on their list. he's won 30 games what 4 years in a row?

It's not a BCS school in a big conference but in today's college basketball Memphis is an elite program, they have reached the point of teams that reload not rebuild.

next year will be interesting in the Pac 10 the whole conference could be down even more. UA figures to lose Budinger and Hill. USC is looking at losing Derozan, Gibson and Hackett(they have a nice recruiting class plus Alex Stepheson), UCLA loses 3 senior starters and will have 9-10 guys who are freshmen or sophs(depending on Holiday). UW loses Brockman and Dentmon.
ASU loses Pendergraph and probably Harden.

I had Cal pegged as possibly the preseason favorite but now Theo Robertson is having surgery on his other hip and might be out again.

Who knows who's going to win the Pac 10 next year, could be a crazy year. really the team who gets the most surprises in kids not leaving, will probably win it.

The key Russ is that Memphis has been very good the last 3 years and really the whole 5 Cal has been there. But longevity should count for something. Cal would have to stay their 20 years to get them on that first or second tier. My feeling is you would have had to win at least one NC since the Magic/Bird game to be considered part of those first 2 levels.

UConn is the most intriguing program. A couple years ago I thought they were the same or even below UA in terms of national reputation. Since they have one more NC and if they win again this year they have definitely started to be talked about in being included in that upper crust.

But UNC, Kansas, UK, and UCLA are epic programs for a bunch of diffrent reasons. The inventor of basketball (Naismith) was from KU and Phog Allen, Adolph Rupp and his cats were the orginal college dynasty, Dean Smith and the four corners are a legend unto themselves, and of course UCLA with Wooden. Not to mention all 4 of those programs have won titles in the past 20 years as well.

I only put Duke in that group because even though their championship pedigree is recent its been nothing short of dominant in the late 80's through the 90's.

Uconn can join that group with 3 more good years under Calhoun. Arizona if they make that big time hire and start to experience similar success can as well.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Second tier with programs like Syracuse, UConn, Florida, Arkansas, Texas, and others. Top 6 without question on a whole other level are Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, UNC, Indiana, and Duke.

 

[DWKB]

Second tier with programs like Syracuse, UConn, Florida, Arkansas, Texas, and others. Top 6 without question on a whole other level are Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, UNC, Indiana, and Duke.

Only guy besides Russ that knows college basketball.

I don't think this thread gives any context to UofA hiring their new coach, though. The questions are somewhat related, but not directly at all.

 

[Hazzard29]

Second tier with programs like Syracuse, UConn, Florida, Arkansas, Texas, and others. Top 6 without question on a whole other level are Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, UNC, Indiana, and Duke.

Im a big Arkansas fan, so it pains me a little to say this, but... Arkansas is not even close to belonging on this list. The Hogs havent been relevant in long time.

 

[DWKB]

Im a big Arkansas fan, so it pains me a little to say this, but... Arkansas is not even close to belonging on this list. The Hogs havent been relevant in long time.

Arkansas Razorback basketball c.1977-2001 is very very close to Arizona Wildcat basketball c1984-2009

UofA from 2010 on is still unknown. They could follow the Razorbacks fall into mediocrity if they end up having the same coaching issues post-HOF-coach. Of course Arkansas is really a football school first, unlike Arizona.


Edit:

I got curious and ran the numbers to compare

Arizona 84-09:

621 wins
25 tournament appearance
12 sweet 16
7 elite 8
4 final 4
2 national championship games
1 championship
12 regular season or conference championships

Arkansas 77-01:

600 wins
22 tournament appearances
9 sweet 16
5 elite 8
3 final 4
2 national championship games
1 national champion
11 regular or conference championships

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Arkansas Razorback basketball c.1977-2001 is very very close to Arizona Wildcat basketball c1984-2009

UofA from 2010 on is still unknown. They could follow the Razorbacks fall into mediocrity if they end up having the same coaching issues post-HOF-coach. Of course Arkansas is really a football school first, unlike Arizona.


Edit:

I got curious and ran the numbers to compare

Arizona 84-09:

621 wins
25 tournament appearance
12 sweet 16
7 elite 8
4 final 4
2 national championship games
1 championship
12 regular season or conference championships

Arkansas 77-01:

600 wins
22 tournament appearances
9 sweet 16
5 elite 8
3 final 4
2 national championship games
1 national champion
11 regular or conference championships

That's about as close a fit as you could find. Interesting comparison.

 

[Hazzard29]

Arkansas Razorback basketball c.1977-2001 is very very close to Arizona Wildcat basketball c1984-2009

UofA from 2010 on is still unknown. They could follow the Razorbacks fall into mediocrity if they end up having the same coaching issues post-HOF-coach. Of course Arkansas is really a football school first, unlike Arizona.


Edit:

I got curious and ran the numbers to compare

Arizona 84-09:

621 wins
25 tournament appearance
12 sweet 16
7 elite 8
4 final 4
2 national championship games
1 championship
12 regular season or conference championships

Arkansas 77-01:

600 wins
22 tournament appearances
9 sweet 16
5 elite 8
3 final 4
2 national championship games
1 national champion
11 regular or conference championships

Wow, much closer than I wouldve thought.. I guess the last few bad seasons the Hogs have had has really soured my perception of the program,

 

[Russ Smith]

Here's calipari's take on this from the Memphis Commercial Appeal.

It's from the Memphis Commercial Appeal but for some reason I can't now find it on there to link it so I'll just quote it. The first part is him talking about UK.

*Calipari said it's one of five programs -- along with North Carolina, Duke, UCLA and Kansas -- any coach would have to consider.

*Arizona came after him over the weekend offering not a salary but a blank check. Calipari said, "No thanks."

 

[DWKB]

Wow, much closer than I wouldve thought.. I guess the last few bad seasons the Hogs have had has really soured my perception of the program,

Which should be a real fear for Arizona. Arizona's one advantage that I didn't compare to Arkansas is NBA level talent and that might help the perception of the program regarding recruiting.

 

[DWKB]

*Arizona came after him over the weekend offering not a salary but a blank check. Calipari said, "No thanks."

Is this before or after UK? If it was after, I can understand a little because Arizona just doesn't compare to UK. If it was before the UK offer then... well ouch.

 

[Renz]

Here's calipari's take on this from the Memphis Commercial Appeal.

It's from the Memphis Commercial Appeal but for some reason I can't now find it on there to link it so I'll just quote it. The first part is him talking about UK.

*Calipari said it's one of five programs -- along with North Carolina, Duke, UCLA and Kansas -- any coach would have to consider.

*Arizona came after him over the weekend offering not a salary but a blank check. Calipari said, "No thanks."

That was overheard by a MCA 'source' at a donut shop. I'd take the whole 'blank check' report with a grain of salt.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/mar/31/tigers-coach-john-calipari-said-be-making-decision/