Updated GM Tiering

Chris_Sanders

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Is this the best NBA draft in a decade or more? Our tier system is loaded with prospects in the top two tiers, challenging some of the best drafts in recent memory.


Big Boards, top 100s and mock drafts are the most efficient way to communicate what I'm hearing from NBA scouts, general managers and the like. Those formats have their place, but there is another format I prefer -- draft tiers.

Ranking players in a single-file sequence is problematic, and for the past decade, most NBA teams have gotten away from the practice. That's also what makes mock drafts so challenging.

In many cases, there is not a consensus on a draft prospect. Two scouts can watch the same player in the same game and come to wildly different evaluations about a player. Two GMs can sit with the same player in an interview and walk away with different impressions about who the player really is. Two analytical models, both purporting to offer a more objective look at a player through his statistics, can spit out radically different conclusions.

Each team may have 10 to 15 voices in the room advocating for different things. Many teams don't decide until draft day who they'll take.

This year is no exception. While Markelle Fultz has been No. 1 on our Big Board most of the year,Josh Jackson,Lonzo Ball,De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum have strong advocates. Few teams agree what order the next five or six players should go. Get even further down in the draft and the disparity between how teams rank players grows.

To make sense of all this, I've chronicled a draft ranking -- employed by a number of teams -- called the tier system.

In the tier system, teams group players based on overall talent. Then the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need. This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available, but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.

A more detailed explanation of how the tier system works can be found here.

Note: Players in each tier are listed alphabetically.

Tier 1 (Potential superstars)
Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington


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Get ready for Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball and the 2017 draft, with analysis from Chad Ford and other ESPN experts.

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Last draft we had just one player in this category: Ben Simmons. The year before that,Karl-Anthony Towns was the only player here.

This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars or franchise players. Only six other players since we started this column in 2009 --Blake Griffin,John Wall,Anthony Davis,Andrew Wiggins,Joel Embiid and Jabari Parker-- have been ranked in this slot.

Fultz was unanimously nominated for Tier 1 by the NBA scouts and executives I polled for this piece. Ball was more polarizing for sure, but he still got a majority of the votes for Tier 1.

Three other players -- Josh Jackson, De'Aaron Fox and Jayson Tatum -- received votes for Tier 1.

Tier 2 (All-Star potential)
De'Aaron Fox, PG, Fr., Kentucky
Jonathan Isaac, F, Fr., Florida State
Josh Jackson, G/F, Fr., Kansas
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Fr., Arizona
Malik Monk, G, Fr., Kentucky
Frank Ntilikina, PG, France
Dennis Smith, PG, Fr., North Carolina State
Jayson Tatum, F, Fr., Duke


This is the largest Tier 2 we've ever had. This tier is reserved for players with All-Star potential. However, each player in Tier 2 has a weakness that some teams believe will keep him from being a superstar.

In Fox and Jackson's case, it's the lack of a consistent jumper. Isaac needs to add strength and find a position. Markkanen and Monk are too one-dimensional right now. Smith and Tatum might be too selfish with the ball. Ntilikina isn't an elite athlete.

Fox, Jackson and Tatum all received only Tier 1 and Tier 2 votes. Isaac, Monk and Smith all were unanimous in Tier 2. Markkanen and Ntilikina had some Tier 3 votes, but the majority were Tier 2. Zach Collinsreceived a lot of votes in Tier 2, but just barely missed the cut.

Having 10 players in the first two tiers is extraordinary for a draft class.

Tier 3 (NBA starters)
OG Anunoby, F, So., Indiana
Zach Collins, F/C, Fr., Gonzaga
Harry Giles, PF, Fr., Duke
Luke Kennard, G, So., Duke
Donovan Mitchell, G, So., Louisville


This is a solid Tier 3, but with the exception of Collins, most teams see a significant drop-off here. This tier is usually reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters in their careers.

Having 15 players in the first three tiers makes for a very strong draft. The closest we got was in 2014 when we had 12 players in the top three tiers. Of this group, Collins was the only player not to receive Tier 4 votes, so the consensus breaks down at this point.

The biggest issue for scouts was ranking Anunoby and Giles. Both have had significant knee injuries. Giles is actually healed and ready to play, but teams are worried because he has had two major knee surgeries and didn't look nearly as explosive at Duke last season. Anunoby hurt his knee in January and could miss his rookie season.

Based on sheer talent, virtually every scout and front office executive had Giles as either a Tier 1 or Tier 2 prospect. And all but one had Anunoby as a Tier 2 guy. If they get healthy, they're steals in Tier 3. But their previous injuries put a cloud over their draft stock.
 
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Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

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This is what I mean by saying this is the deepest draft in a decade. Literallly no draft has had 10 top level guys.

So what has changed since the workouts? Markkannen has moved into Tier 2. Collins almost made Tier 2 now, which is a big jump up.

Tatum is now receiving Tier 1 votes. I am not kidding when I say his game is very much like Paul Pierce.

Fox is probably right there with Ball now.

Jackson has stayed about the same but isn't the consensus #3 now.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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If Jackson develops a solid jumper...he would be special. Still can't see any way we pass on him, if he's available.
 

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If Jackson develops a solid jumper...he would be special. Still can't see any way we pass on him, if he's available.

It's not like we're short of rookies - and we're probably going to have a good pick again next year - but I could be convinced that an isaac and smith draft return might turn out better for us, allowing us to trade Bledsoe for a vet. But I also think we'd find it hard to pass on Jackson.
 

Raze

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Great stuff Chris.

If Fultz and Ball are tier 1, then I would for sure add Jackson and Fox. Fox is a great Defender with a knack for scoring. He has Westbrook potential (whether I like Russell or not he's got superstar status). Jackson also is a great Defender who has Pippen-esque type game. (Basically is at least good at everything) While they both have limited shooting abilities right now, they have so many other intangibles they should be vaulted up a tier.

Stats are the only thing keeping Fultz on the top. I can't believe scouts are excited about his demeanor. I'm happy he's considered tier 1 so someone else can take him. I feel similar about Ball for a litany of other reasons.

To be honest, I pretty much see this draft as 11 tier 2's. (Jackson is my top prospect who I'd be fine with saying is tier 1. Frank is last.). This is an extremely deep draft with almost no top. I think you get as much possible stardom from Zach Collins as you do from Fultz (The perceived #13 vs. #1). So picking in the latter lottery could still yield the same results as the front.

If it just comes down to guys I want, it's simple: Jackson, Smith, and Z. Collins. It's just a matter of getting them at the optimal spot in the draft to garner the most value.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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It's not like we're short of rookies - and we're probably going to have a good pick again next year - but I could be convinced that an isaac and smith draft return might turn out better for us, allowing us to trade Bledsoe for a vet. But I also think we'd find it hard to pass on Jackson.
No matter how you slice it...we'll be stacked with young talent. And we still don't know what Bledsoe might be worth. I can't see a team giving up too much for him...especially given his history of injuries.
 

devilalum

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This is what I mean by saying this is the deepest draft in a decade. Literallly no draft has had 10 top level guys.

So what has changed since the workouts? Markkannen has moved into Tier 2. Collins almost made Tier 2 now, which is a big jump up.

Tatum is now receiving Tier 1 votes. I am not kidding when I say his game is very much like Paul Pierce.

Fox is probably right there with Ball now.

Jackson has stayed about the same but isn't the consensus #3 now.

Sounds like everybody is certain there will be a perennial All Star at #4.


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AZCrazy

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all I want to know is who's going to play center? I know everyone is droning on these days about how there is position fluidity and it's all about athleticism. What I do know is that guys like Chriss and Bender are wing players. Those 185 pounders aren't banging under the rim with the big boys. They don't seem to want to keep the bigs they have. Chandlers 74 years old.
Anyone want to make a run at keeping Len?
 
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Chris_Sanders

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Update to this based on what Gambo was reporting today. The Suns are using tiering and they have the following players in the same tier:

Fox
Tatum
Isaac
Jackson

Which means that they believe Ball and Fultz are a tier on their own, just like here.

Suns have explored trading up but the price is too high right now.

Suns have explored trading down but will not trade past 7. They feel Smith or Monk go top 6 so they aren't worried about sliding to 7.

Suns worked out Jackson yesterday.


My take:

If you honestly think that Ball and Fultz are superstar tier players, then make the move to get one. We have played the "gamble on future pick value" game enough.

And on the flip side of that, if you think the next tier has 4 players, don't drop 1 pick below the last spot you would get one.

Right now it seems VERY likely we make a deal with Sacramento. My growing sense is that the player we want is Isaac.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Update to this based on what Gambo was reporting today. The Suns are using tiering and they have the following players in the same tier:

Fox
Tatum
Isaac
Jackson

Which means that they believe Ball and Fultz are a tier on their own, just like here.

Suns have explored trading up but the price is too high right now.

Suns have explored trading down but will not trade past 7. They feel Smith or Monk go top 6 so they aren't worried about sliding to 7.

Suns worked out Jackson yesterday.


My take:

If you honestly think that Ball and Fultz are superstar tier players, then make the move to get one. We have played the "gamble on future pick value" game enough.

And on the flip side of that, if you think the next tier has 4 players, don't drop 1 pick below the last spot you would get one.

Right now it seems VERY likely we make a deal with Sacramento. My growing sense is that the player we want is Isaac.
I agree on both counts. Trading to 7 makes my stomach hurt.
 

sunsfan88

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Update to this based on what Gambo was reporting today. The Suns are using tiering and they have the following players in the same tier:

Fox
Tatum
Isaac
Jackson

Which means that they believe Ball and Fultz are a tier on their own, just like here.

Suns have explored trading up but the price is too high right now.

Suns have explored trading down but will not trade past 7. They feel Smith or Monk go top 6 so they aren't worried about sliding to 7.

Suns worked out Jackson yesterday.


My take:

If you honestly think that Ball and Fultz are superstar tier players, then make the move to get one. We have played the "gamble on future pick value" game enough.

And on the flip side of that, if you think the next tier has 4 players, don't drop 1 pick below the last spot you would get one.

Right now it seems VERY likely we make a deal with Sacramento. My growing sense is that the player we want is Isaac.
Gambo must be getting high too early if he thinks the the Suns have Tatum above Jackson.
 

Krangodnzr

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Gambo must be getting high too early if he thinks the the Suns have Tatum above Jackson.

Just because you don't like Tatum, that doesn't mean the Suns don't like him.

I watched a game of each this year and I liked Tatum more. The game I watched of Jackson he looked like the third best player on Kansas. He couldnt buy a bucket. He shot his free throws poorly. He wasnt the best player on his team last year, Mason was easily the best Jayhawk.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Just because you don't like Tatum, that doesn't mean the Suns don't like him.

I watched a game of each this year and I liked Tatum more. The game I watched of Jackson he looked like the third best player on Kansas. He couldnt buy a bucket. He shot his free throws poorly. He wasnt the best player on his team last year, Mason was easily the best Jayhawk.
Watching a single game of each prospect is definitely the best manner in which to accumulate information to make a potentially franchise changing decision. Cmon Krang, you're better than that buddy.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm sure a lot of fans have only watched video highlights of players so watching a couple of games is something. Obviously many games needs to be viewed to get a better feel for each player.
 

SirStefan32

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Honestly, I haven't seen any of these guys nearly enough to have anything but limited impressions. That's why I am not attached to any of them. I suspect most of us haven't really seen any of these guys except for a game or two here and there. There are exceptions, obviously- I am sure Russ watched Ball a lot because he is a UCLA fan, I am sure the locals have watched Lauri, etc.
 

Krangodnzr

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Watching a single game of each prospect is definitely the best manner in which to accumulate information to make a potentially franchise changing decision. Cmon Krang, you're better than that buddy.

My point is that both had their good games and bad games.

I happened to catch a good game of Tatum and a bad game from Jackson.
 

Mainstreet

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Honestly, I haven't seen any of these guys nearly enough to have anything but limited impressions. That's why I am not attached to any of them. I suspect most of us haven't really seen any of these guys except for a game or two here and there. There are exceptions, obviously- I am sure Russ watched Ball a lot because he is a UCLA fan, I am sure the locals have watched Lauri, etc.

Alas, an honest man. :cool:
 

Bodha

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I dont see how Ball is considered a Tier 1 superstar.

Hes not a prolific enough scorer. PGs MUST be scorers in todays NBA. Ball is a clear Tier 2 and id put him behind Tatum.
 

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I dont see how Ball is considered a Tier 1 superstar.

Hes not a prolific enough scorer. PGs MUST be scorers in todays NBA. Ball is a clear Tier 2 and id put him behind Tatum.

Says who PG's have to be scorers? Like sprinters have to be six foot or below? or white men can't jump?




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Bodha

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Says who PG's have to be scorers? Like sprinters have to be six foot or below? or white men can't jump?
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Says stats.

The top 14 PG's in the NBA all avg 17 ppg and above. All of them. Look it up

Wall
Lowry
Curry
Russ
Kyrie
Bledsoe
Paul
Harden
Hill
Thomas
Conley
Lillard
Walker


did I miss anybody? Tony Parker. OK thats one. But thats why I said "Todays NBA". Today doesnt apply to 35 year old PGs.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Says stats.

The top 14 PG's in the NBA all avg 17 ppg and above. All of them. Look it up

Wall
Lowry
Curry
Russ
Kyrie
Bledsoe
Paul
Harden
Hill
Thomas
Conley
Lillard
Walker


did I miss anybody? Tony Parker. OK thats one. But thats why I said "Todays NBA". Today doesnt apply to 35 year old PGs.
17pts/game is easily attainable by ball.
 

Bodha

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17pts/game is easily attainable by ball.

Possibly. Although I doubt it. De'angelo is hovering around 14ppg and he was considered a better prospect than Lonzo at draft time.

Lonzo is terrific distributor. But thats not enough. Look at Ricky Rubio. Amazing facilitator but he drags his team down with his paltry 10 ppg. PGs have to be scorers nowadays if you want to win.
 

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Possibly. Although I doubt it. De'angelo is hovering around 14ppg and he was considered a better prospect than Lonzo at draft time.

Lonzo is terrific distributor. But thats not enough. Look at Ricky Rubio. Amazing facilitator but he drags his team down with his paltry 10 ppg. PGs have to be scorers nowadays if you want to win.

Because Ricky can't shoot.

If we absolutely need a shooting PG, give it to Booker while Ball stands off him.
 
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