USC/UCLA leaving Pac12 for Big10?

Mainstreet

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The discussion today was about Apple streaming the games.

I guess the PAC-12 hasn't learned their lesson about paying to stream games through subscriptions.

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ASUCHRIS

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ASUCHRIS

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This might be the greatest self-own on ASFN ever. If being #13 out of 363 division 1 basketball programs isn’t “elite” then you’re right, I don’t know the definition of elite. Top 3.5% of programs. Not elite. Lol.
You clearly don't understand the definition of elite.

If you think U of A is in the same tier as the other NCAA bluebloods as a "top 13 program", that is somewhere beyond hilarious.

Elite is Duke/Kentucky/UCLA/North Carolina. If you think U of A is on the same level as those teams (ELITE), you know nothing about college basketball. Not even U of A homers here will push that argument.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Not to mention multiple nba draft picks, highly rated recruits, top seeds in the tourney (even if they’ve blown it).
How are those players doing in the NBA? Overrated almost every time, huh? Those highly rated recruits are making for more spectacular flameouts each year. You're making a great case as to why Wildcat hoops is incredibly overrated. Check out this list...it's an incredible collection of super hyped guys that have done almost nothing:

These things matter. But I get it, as an ASU hoops fan it’s a foreign universe.
The best player period from either school ended up at ASU! But U of A has had some incredible role players for sure!

U of A fan derangement can apparently prey on non students as well.
 
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ASUCHRIS

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That "TV" deal is embarrassing. The whole PAC is embarrassing. Their arrogance is embarrassing.
It's a hope and a prayer vs. an established entity. The fact that there is any kvetching or back and forth at this point is concerning. It's either move to the Big 12 or take door #2, which is hope and nothing concrete.

Take the damn truck stop conference deal!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Arizona isn't an elite program - it's just not

It's a consistently very good program - like a larger Syracuse maybe

Just not the top of the top - which is fine - that space is reserved for just a handful of programs
Playing semantics. It definitely falls in the top programs in the country. It’s not Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, or UCLA. But that’s just five programs. Blue bloods. There are other elite programs. And Arizona is right there with the next tier of MSU, Michigan, UConn, Gonzaga, etc. Tge only people that deny this are jealous of Cats basketball. Miller wasn’t Lute but he was bringing in big time recruits, turning out draft picks and constantly in the tourney. And Tommy Lloyd looks like a homerun right now. So there’s history and modern success. Arizona is undeniably a recognized national basketball name. ASU cannot say that about either of the glamor sports (football/basketball).
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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One year of data - boom! Sick sample size.

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I guess 2019 prooooves ASU is the best, amirite?
ASU, listed as 5th, is “the best?” No wonder you and I can’t agree on elite, I don’t even understand what universe you’re living in. Nonsense world.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You clearly don't understand the definition of elite.

If you think U of A is in the same tier as the other NCAA bluebloods as a "top 13 program", that is somewhere beyond hilarious.

Elite is Duke/Kentucky/UCLA/North Carolina. If you think U of A is on the same level as those teams (ELITE), you know nothing about college basketball. Not even U of A homers here will push that argument.
Top 3.5% of college hoops. Not elite. Keep digging the silly hole.
 

MigratingOsprey

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I would put Arizona below Connecticut, Michigan State and maybe a little above Gonzaga and Michigan

None of those are elite though and it's not just semantics

Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky - those types of programs are the needle movers, the largest draws, etc. There is a reason they are the blue bloods - they are the elite.

It's just a different tier and a narrow shelf.

Can argue about placement on the shelf below them, but Arizona is definitely on the shelf below them. They are a nice participant or desired feature to an event, the blue bloods have weight to be the event
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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How are those players doing in the NBA? Overrated almost every time, huh? Those highly rated recruits are making for more spectacular flameouts each year. You're making a great case as to why Wildcat hoops is incredibly overrated. Check out this list...it's an incredible collection of super hyped guys that have done almost nothing:


The best player period from either school ended up at ASU! But U of A has had some incredible role players for sure!

U of A fan derangement can apparently prey on non students as well.
Lol. So the list is like James harden then 40 Arizona players. Dude your arguments against the realities of Arizona basketball are just plain silly (and I’m using a kind word to describe them because they are gawd awful). Big recruits and being drafted and being in the tourney all the time means name and brand recognition. It gets you on tv. Where the eyeballs are. You keep arguing about dirt and concrete but no eyeballs. ASU is a nonentity on a national scale in the two most important sports. Arizona is a national name in hoops. It’s as simple as that. Do you agree with the bolded statement?
 

ASUCHRIS

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ASU, listed as 5th, is “the best?” No wonder you and I can’t agree on elite, I don’t even understand what universe you’re living in. Nonsense world.
You used one year of TV ratings to make your argument, Ouchie-Z-Clown. My response was supposed to be obvious hyperbole to your ludicrous position, but clearly you didn't catch that.
 

WiscoBird

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The only good thing coming from this situation is this is hopefully a wake up call for Crow. If you don't build it, they will not come. Everything builds off of football. The idea that we have 32 sports at ASU and none of them, besides maybe wrestling, is worth a crap. We can compete if we try.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I would put Arizona below Connecticut, Michigan State and maybe a little above Gonzaga and Michigan

None of those are elite though and it's not just semantics

Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky - those types of programs are the needle movers, the largest draws, etc. There is a reason they are the blue bloods - they are the elite.

It's just a different tier and a narrow shelf.

Can argue about placement on the shelf below them, but Arizona is definitely on the shelf below them. They are a nice participant or desired feature to an event, the blue bloods have weight to be the event
Them being a desired feature is all that matters. College hooos fans would tune in to watch Arizona - UConn. No one in’s watching ASU-UConn except folks in Hartford.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You used one year of TV ratings to make your argument, Ouchie-Z-Clown. My response was supposed to be obvious hyperbole to your ludicrous position, but clearly you didn't catch that.
Wait, your complete misuse of numerical data was supposed to be “obvious hyperbole?” Okay.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Lol. So the list is like James harden then 40 Arizona players. Dude your arguments against the realities of Arizona basketball are just plain silly (and I’m using a kind word to describe them because they are gawd awful). Big recruits and being drafted and being in the tourney all the time means name and brand recognition. It gets you on tv. Where the eyeballs are. You keep arguing about dirt and concrete but no eyeballs. ASU is a nonentity on a national scale in the two most important sports. Arizona is a national name in hoops. It’s as simple as that. Do you agree with the bolded statement?
You called U of A elite. They're not. Elite is top tier, U of A is in the very good group. Their players have also been very overrated, both as prospects/NBA players. None of these statements are controversial.

Just take the L.

If you want to say "U of A basketball is more successful than any other ASU premium program", you're probably right! That's not what we're discussing though.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Is $650k an elite income?!

Only 1% achieve it and most of us would gladly take it and consider it successful. It won't buy you any sports franchises though........
Fine, whatever. Y’all can play word games but what it comes down to, AGAIN, is eyeballs. Arizona has something that will drive tv viewership and press in hoops that ASU doesn’t possess. End of story.
 

MigratingOsprey

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The only good thing coming from this situation is this is hopefully a wake up call for Crow. If you don't build it, they will not come. Everything builds off of football. The idea that we have 32 sports at ASU and none of them, besides maybe wrestling, is worth a crap. We can compete if we try.

Yep.

More pertinent to the discussion is the PAC struggles with TV and has for a while. They seem to miss the point again with this discussion.

Your product needs to be able to appeal to some casuals and general interest

I have paid to watch my NFL team and that led to no PAC 12 network, which means I didn't watch a lot of games I would have otherwise.

However, if I'm checking scoreboards or going through and see a tight game in another conference I can tune in easily

The schools that are stubbornly sticking to this model and not factoring in the ability to be seen, NIL ramifications, etc are going to drop like a rock

For many it would be a revenue hit for the overall program
 

ASUCHRIS

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Wait, your complete misuse of numerical data was supposed to be “obvious hyperbole?” Okay.
"One year of data - boom! Sick sample size." "I guess 2019 prooooves ASU is the best, amirite?"

No - my literal words. Incredible comprehension from you in this thread, kudos.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You called U of A elite. They're not. Elite is top tier, U of A is in the very good group. Their players have also been very overrated, both as prospects/NBA players. None of these statements are controversial.

Just take the L.

If you want to say "U of A basketball is more successful than any other ASU premium program", you're probably right! That's not what we're discussing though.
This all originated with which program was more attractive. Someone was claiming it was all about tv market. I claimed it was about what drives eyeballs. Which became Arizona is a hoops program that does that while ASU has nothing if the sort. I used the word elite in making that argument. If you want to disagree with word, that’s your prerogative. I’m done with the nonsequitur to the actual argument.
 
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